EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
IanJ9375 said:
I've noticed that the same group of people will mention the mining argument "Congo kids" but at the same time seem to want anyone on a small boat to drown if it's heading towards the white cliffs.
Imagine their cognitive dissonance if we were sending small boat arrivals to the Congo to mine minerals.Couple new vans at work are EV, I've been surprisingly impressed with them. If they're not in use 24/7 then they're fine, we can leave them on charge for 5/6 hours and they just about get back to full range. The heaters blowing out warm air almost instantly is a nice bonus as well.
Think the range is about 200 miles, but obviously they're brand new and it's warm, come winter it might be a different story. I was thinking to myself, if the range was 33% better, with charging being faster, they'd be perfect (other than the original cost £). I do think in 5 years they'll be vast improvements in those areas though, gonna be interesting seeing.
Think the range is about 200 miles, but obviously they're brand new and it's warm, come winter it might be a different story. I was thinking to myself, if the range was 33% better, with charging being faster, they'd be perfect (other than the original cost £). I do think in 5 years they'll be vast improvements in those areas though, gonna be interesting seeing.
Edited by Leicester Loyal on Thursday 16th May 12:35
confused_buyer said:
There is clearly healthy demand for smaller cars with manufacturers doing well with the 208, Corsa, C3, A1, Clio, i10, Yaris, Polo and even geriatrics like the 500.
It just seems the Fiesta fell out of favour. Remarkable when you think how ubiquitous previous models were - not just in the UK - but in places like Spain and Germany.
I'm not sure what Ford's future holds in Europe. They seem to have fewer and fewer models and little new coming through apart from some expensive EVs based on VWs.
I spend a lot of time working in the motor trade and to be honest I can't really remember what the latest Fiesta really looked like but I can remember all the others going back to a Mk 1.
That's what I was thinking. Still plenty of small cars available. It just seems the Fiesta fell out of favour. Remarkable when you think how ubiquitous previous models were - not just in the UK - but in places like Spain and Germany.
I'm not sure what Ford's future holds in Europe. They seem to have fewer and fewer models and little new coming through apart from some expensive EVs based on VWs.
I spend a lot of time working in the motor trade and to be honest I can't really remember what the latest Fiesta really looked like but I can remember all the others going back to a Mk 1.
Just Ford committing suicide in Europe.
I hadn't realised the UP! had gone too though, that's a shame.
GeniusOfLove said:
That bamboo story comes from the same place as the "THEY TEACH KIDS THERE ARE 57 GENDERS" nonsense; the imagination of a fool
It was local to me, passed it almost every day and physically seen.Question, how many times a week do you get told to F Off? Because that's what you're in danger of getting here.
ChocolateFrog said:
That's what I was thinking. Still plenty of small cars available.
Just Ford committing suicide in Europe.
I hadn't realised the UP! had gone too though, that's a shame.
1992, Ford introduced the credit facility that meant no one had to have a Ford product. Just Ford committing suicide in Europe.
I hadn't realised the UP! had gone too though, that's a shame.
The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
DonkeyApple said:
ChocolateFrog said:
That's what I was thinking. Still plenty of small cars available.
Just Ford committing suicide in Europe.
I hadn't realised the UP! had gone too though, that's a shame.
1992, Ford introduced the credit facility that meant no one had to have a Ford product. Just Ford committing suicide in Europe.
I hadn't realised the UP! had gone too though, that's a shame.
The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
DonkeyApple said:
1992, Ford introduced the credit facility that meant no one had to have a Ford product.
The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
Just published;The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
"Conducted by YouGov, the investigation utilised ‘Consideration’ scores from the polling firm’s BrandIndex and uncovered that Mercedes-Benz is the most popular brand among people considering the purchase of a new car.
The survey looks at people who said they were considering buying a new car in the next 12 months and almost a third (32 per cent) favoured putting a car with a three-pointed star on their driveway.
The third-place finisher in the ‘new’ category was BMW, a reflection of how those looking to buy a brand-new car appear to favour premium brands. This is highlighted further by Audi, Tesla and Porsche also making it into the top ten.
Ford was named the most popular brand for used car buyers, with as much as 41 per cent of those surveyed considering the Blue Oval for the second-hand purchase they plan to make within the next year.
Ford, the maker of the UK’s current best-selling car, the Puma small SUV, is also a favourite with new buyers, being considered by 27 per cent of respondents in that part of the survey."
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/consumer-news/363048...
DonkeyApple said:
1992, Ford introduced the credit facility that meant no one had to have a Ford product.
The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
Vauxhall? Citroen? MG? Dacia? Kia/Hyundai? All still selling cars in all segments plus numerous others. You could say no one needs any of them, but clearly they do.The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
If price is irrelevant and thanks to modern finance no one needs cheaper cars how comes MG has gone from 0% of the UK market to nearly 5% in a few short years by aggressive pricing? Surely no one needs a MG?
Dave200 said:
You could easily replace Ford with Vauxhall in there. Rapidly becoming an irrelevance as a brand, as the Koreans do boring better and the aspirational Germans are easy to finance.
Yup but they appear to have held ground better with things like the Corsa and just being a brand within a larger group probably means they have superior economies of scale to Ford. Stellantis can sit in Europe and offer a potential customer not just a Corsa but a 500, a Panda, a small Citroen, a small Pug, possibly a small Lancia. If the customer wants something a bit larger then they can offer them a selection of different badges to suit a fair range of post codes and even offer a Maserati or Abath
What can Ford offer? They just had a single small car. After that it was straight into crossovers and really nothing after that. If Barry Big Balls marched in demanding to hurl wad they've got nothing apart from trying to convince Mr Big Balls that he wants a car his granny would by via a special scheme but completely different because it had a sticker saying Vignale which allowed him to sit in a less grubby chair while waiting during a service. Barry isn't going to buy that when he can be rolling in a Merc with all his jingle jangle reflecting off the high shine plastics.
It's not that the product isn't good but I just don't think they've managed to transition the brand in the 21st century and muchbof the market place will pay overs to not be associated with the brand.
Even when they roll out the EVs and even if well priced and well made, which consumers who have a driveway, can capitalise on BIK and have the right usage are going to want to pay their money to then be associated with the Ford brand? It's all gone a bit regional wasteland and palliative care as a brand.
confused_buyer said:
otolith said:
The largest mass market sellers in the UK are now what used to be considered premium brands.
They are but it's amazing how much the A1/A3, 1-Series, Mini and A-Class account for their volume sales. Take them out and the figures look very different.otolith said:
But at the same time, the old mass manufacturers have largely abandoned trying to compete with them on their own turf with the likes of the Scorpio, Omega, etc.
That's part of Ford's problem, a total collapse of market share in larger and higher margin vehicles. It's no good selling hundreds of thousands of Fiestas when each one makes £50.An Audi A2 costs nothing more to develop and manufacture than a Fiesta but the "imagine" gets it what a 20% higher transaction price even before a load of options? That's all profit.
Their PAG plan in the 90s and 00s was a good one and maybe could have secured them a future, it's a shame circumstances worked against them.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Thursday 16th May 14:58
confused_buyer said:
Vauxhall? Citroen? MG? Dacia? Kia/Hyundai? All still selling cars in all segments plus numerous others. You could say no one needs any of them, but clearly they do.
If price is irrelevant and thanks to modern finance no one needs cheaper cars how comes MG has gone from 0% of the UK market to nearly 5% in a few short years by aggressive pricing? Surely no one needs a MG?
I think he means compared to peak Ford. If price is irrelevant and thanks to modern finance no one needs cheaper cars how comes MG has gone from 0% of the UK market to nearly 5% in a few short years by aggressive pricing? Surely no one needs a MG?
Ford basically dominated the English countrywide for 50+ years and within the next ten they will be gone.
BMW, Merc and Audi have basically replaced everything with their poverty spec cars parading about as "premium".
Ford shot themselves in the foot because they had the same production costs as the Germans but didn't have the badge to sell them.
GeniusOfLove said:
That bamboo story comes from the same place as the "THEY TEACH KIDS THERE ARE 57 GENDERS" nonsense; the imagination of a fool.
The people who built this might, perhaps, know as much about scaffolding as the country that can't build a single high speed railway. They might not care if it's safe or not, but I am quite sure they know bamboo isn't the material of choice.
Bamboo makes a perfectly safe & reasonable scaffolding. It's the material of choice in HK, with very strict H&S rules (especially regarding scaffolding needing to withstand typhoons)The people who built this might, perhaps, know as much about scaffolding as the country that can't build a single high speed railway. They might not care if it's safe or not, but I am quite sure they know bamboo isn't the material of choice.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Thursday 16th May 10:26
DonkeyApple said:
1992, Ford introduced the credit facility that meant no one had to have a Ford product.
The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
I think you’ll find Ford Credit was introduced around 1990, I know because aged 19, 3 of my mates all bought new Orions 1.6 LXs no less, all from the same dealer.The reality is that there is nothing wrong with Ford and they make decent cars. They've made some absolute greats as well but the simple reality is that thanks to modern finance no one actually needs a Ford. If you can afford the monthly cost of a Ford then you can invariably find a few quid more to get something even better.
The Ford brand itself is wholly uninspiring, unexciting and represents a demographic where the members are actively keen to not be seen as members.
Having to divest itself of all its premium brands after 2008 was a huge blow globally as it left them with nothing aspirational or that could carry a good premium or just be of interest to those in society whose earnings were keeping pace etc.
Their mid sized offerings were decimated by credit on more premium German cars and their customers hurled themselves at the opportunity to get a Merc or BMW instead of a Mondeo or Scorpio. Their Motobility market has been decimated by competition such as better made Korean cars with better deals and their small car dominance has been rapidly eroded by more desirable products like the 500 and better value stuff like the Korean offerings and cheaper stuff from China like MG.
The simple reality is that every year fewer and fewer people want or have to have a car with a Ford badge and outside of the US they have all the appearance of ending up like Rover if they don't get to work on repositioning their brand. Even Vauxhall have managed to keep some life in what isn't exactly an inspiring brand. And Ford's huge looming issue in the U.K. and Europe is whether those who will be switching to EV in the first phase over the next 10-15 years, mainly people with driveways and under the age of 60 want an EV with a Ford sticker on it? I suspect not?
I think it’s unfair to suggest Ford owners aspire to own something “better” I grew up with them in my life, learned to drive in a MK1 Fiesta, and we’ve owned one ever since, a mk4 Focus ST. We love them and have no desire for a German car. Fords have pedigree, character and a loyal following. Don’t want a Puma or Mustang though.
KingGary said:
I think you’ll find Ford Credit was introduced around 1990, I know because aged 19, 3 of my mates all bought new Orions 1.6 LXs no less, all from the same dealer.
I think it’s unfair to suggest Ford owners aspire to own something “better” I grew up with them in my life, learned to drive in a MK1 Fiesta, and we’ve owned one ever since, a mk4 Focus ST. We love them and have no desire for a German car. Fords have pedigree, character and a loyal following. Don’t want a Puma or Mustang though.
Same here, although I may have to go German. With the exception of a focus st or a Mustang nothing Ford offers floats my boatI think it’s unfair to suggest Ford owners aspire to own something “better” I grew up with them in my life, learned to drive in a MK1 Fiesta, and we’ve owned one ever since, a mk4 Focus ST. We love them and have no desire for a German car. Fords have pedigree, character and a loyal following. Don’t want a Puma or Mustang though.
I was a "Ford man" to the core, from my first new XR2 in 1983, until I got a job with a company car in 1997. I think I had 6 new Fords in 14 years, as well as a Suzuki SJ, a Mini, a Westfield and an MGB.
My dad mostly had Fords too.
Company cars were a mix of Ford and Vauxhall, whatever was best value on the company list at the time. For a couple of years I took the allowance, owning a handful of old Granadas and a couple of Carltons.
Since packing in the job and having to buy my own cars again in 2009, I have owned 20-odd cars. Only one of them was a Ford - a Galaxy. I've owned Fiats, Citroens, Porsches, BMWs, Kias, MX5s and a Mercedes. Currently in an XC40. Every time I've looked at a Ford, a different manufacturer's model was either better value, better performing, or more "aspirational" (badge/equipment) - apart from the Galaxy, which was the best 7 seater for my needs.
Ford just don't make anything that I fancy buying anymore. Quite sad really.
My dad mostly had Fords too.
Company cars were a mix of Ford and Vauxhall, whatever was best value on the company list at the time. For a couple of years I took the allowance, owning a handful of old Granadas and a couple of Carltons.
Since packing in the job and having to buy my own cars again in 2009, I have owned 20-odd cars. Only one of them was a Ford - a Galaxy. I've owned Fiats, Citroens, Porsches, BMWs, Kias, MX5s and a Mercedes. Currently in an XC40. Every time I've looked at a Ford, a different manufacturer's model was either better value, better performing, or more "aspirational" (badge/equipment) - apart from the Galaxy, which was the best 7 seater for my needs.
Ford just don't make anything that I fancy buying anymore. Quite sad really.
Dave200 said:
4.6m is coincidentally the exact same size as the new Discovery Sport, a mid-size SUV that will seat 5 plus dog/luggage easily.
The EV6 weighs about 2 tonnes. You'll never believe how much the Discovery Sport weighs. But that still won't stop the bogeyman wibbling.
Discovery Sport is rather a niche vehicle. Not a huge seller family saloon.The EV6 weighs about 2 tonnes. You'll never believe how much the Discovery Sport weighs. But that still won't stop the bogeyman wibbling.
And I'd bet the EV6 is going to be more reliable
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