EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
M4cruiser said:
nickfrog said:
KingGary said:
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies.
Leasing, or PLP or whatever it's called, increases the interest you pay because the outstanding balance is higher for longer, compared with "buying" on HP or bank loan.
The intelligent can put this into a spreadsheet in a few moments.
Everybody else just signs, when the salesman says it's only £299 per month.
You have to keep an open mind, if you can.
KingGary said:
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies.
It's arguably better to reword that to accept that many mugs use leasing and the PCP product, like credit cards, was obviously created for mugs but that is different from leasing being purely for mugs as ot isn't, any more than credit cards are purely for mugs. It's a case of how one chooses to use the product that defines whether someone is a mug. For example, using it to dial out risk and hassle isn't the act of a mug whereas using it to trap oneself in a debt spiral or to obtain something that would otherwise not be affordable by other forms of finance is.
You also have to contend with the 'dealer finance' farce where consumers not wishing to use the over priced house finance services are forced to pay a higher up front cost as punishment for not being insolvent to the point of only being able to pass credit checks at the vendors.
Want to use a £250k Ferrari for a few years and because the price is beyond what you can afford to risk then locking in all costs to fixed is a very smart play.
Want to take advantage of EV BIK but not interested in running the yr3 value gauntlet then locking that in and hedging out that risk for a premium is eminently sensible.
Same with buying a new Range Rover, locking in the cost dials out a huge chunk of the risk of getting one of their lemons.
And it's not all about higher income hedging but the product is excellent for someone on a low income and with no savings as they can secure reliable basic work transport for a fixed monthly cost. And a lot of the time such people haven't the savings to procure a sensible used car or a good enough credit rating to borrow at or below the rates which a dealer will lend at.
The U.K. also has a large number of retired people who have robust pension income but no wealth. They can't easily borrow as they have nothing you can take, you can't take their house nor can you take their pension to settle a debt so leasing solves that issue.
The risk with PCP is that it wasn't designed for the prudent but for the feckless, those who will use it to spend more of what they haven't got for something beyond what they need but while that means very many who use it are mugs what ot doesn't mean, just like credit card lending, that all users are mugs or that it isn't actually the correct tool for the job at times.
Zj2002 said:
M4cruiser said:
nickfrog said:
KingGary said:
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies.
Leasing, or PLP or whatever it's called, increases the interest you pay because the outstanding balance is higher for longer, compared with "buying" on HP or bank loan.
The intelligent can put this into a spreadsheet in a few moments.
Everybody else just signs, when the salesman says it's only £299 per month.
You are talking nonsense. Not everyone who leases is financially illiterate.
However every shed driver feels the need to take the moral high ground.
KingGary said:
Zj2002 said:
M4cruiser said:
nickfrog said:
KingGary said:
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies.
Leasing, or PLP or whatever it's called, increases the interest you pay because the outstanding balance is higher for longer, compared with "buying" on HP or bank loan.
The intelligent can put this into a spreadsheet in a few moments.
Everybody else just signs, when the salesman says it's only £299 per month.
You are talking nonsense. Not everyone who leases is financially illiterate.
However every shed driver feels the need to take the moral high ground.
My only comments in this thread are in response to non leasers looking down their noses at leasers as they must be thick.
If you want to drive a shed you own fine, no need to judge others.
If I want to lease a car and not drive a shed, fine, no need to judge others.
I didn’t start the smug attitude - I responded to it.
Zj2002 said:
Works both ways.
My only comments in this thread are in response to non leasers looking down their noses at leasers as they must be thick.
If you want to drive a shed you own fine, no need to judge others.
If I want to lease a car and not drive a shed, fine, no need to judge others.
I didn’t start the smug attitude - I responded to it.
I didn’t start anything, I just said leasing is for mugs. It’s designed on the most part for the financially illiterate, to empty their pockets, and make them sink their income into something they would otherwise be unable to afford. Our whole economy has been built on debt.My only comments in this thread are in response to non leasers looking down their noses at leasers as they must be thick.
If you want to drive a shed you own fine, no need to judge others.
If I want to lease a car and not drive a shed, fine, no need to judge others.
I didn’t start the smug attitude - I responded to it.
KingGary said:
Zj2002 said:
Works both ways.
My only comments in this thread are in response to non leasers looking down their noses at leasers as they must be thick.
If you want to drive a shed you own fine, no need to judge others.
If I want to lease a car and not drive a shed, fine, no need to judge others.
I didn’t start the smug attitude - I responded to it.
I didn’t start anything, I just said leasing is for mugs. It’s designed on the most part for the financially illiterate, to empty their pockets, and make them sink their income into something they would otherwise be unable to afford. Our whole economy has been built on debt.My only comments in this thread are in response to non leasers looking down their noses at leasers as they must be thick.
If you want to drive a shed you own fine, no need to judge others.
If I want to lease a car and not drive a shed, fine, no need to judge others.
I didn’t start the smug attitude - I responded to it.
I sink a small proportion of my income into a car that I want to use for 3 years. I could buy a Mondeo, and have more money in the bank. However the cost of borrowing the car for 3 years is worth it to me. Bit like driving a shed and judging those who don’t is worth it to you.
Zj2002 said:
Short memory, you said the same crap a couple of weeks ago when we established that you are Gary King of the Fords.
I sink a small proportion of my income into a car that I want to use for 3 years. I could buy a Mondeo, and have more money in the bank. However the cost of borrowing the car for 3 years is worth it to me. Bit like driving a shed and judging those who don’t is worth it to you.
You could say the same argument for someone who would rather pay extra to enjoy driving an ICE car instead of an EV? I sink a small proportion of my income into a car that I want to use for 3 years. I could buy a Mondeo, and have more money in the bank. However the cost of borrowing the car for 3 years is worth it to me. Bit like driving a shed and judging those who don’t is worth it to you.
BricktopST205 said:
Zj2002 said:
Short memory, you said the same crap a couple of weeks ago when we established that you are Gary King of the Fords.
I sink a small proportion of my income into a car that I want to use for 3 years. I could buy a Mondeo, and have more money in the bank. However the cost of borrowing the car for 3 years is worth it to me. Bit like driving a shed and judging those who don’t is worth it to you.
You could say the same argument for someone who would rather pay extra to enjoy driving an ICE car instead of an EV? I sink a small proportion of my income into a car that I want to use for 3 years. I could buy a Mondeo, and have more money in the bank. However the cost of borrowing the car for 3 years is worth it to me. Bit like driving a shed and judging those who don’t is worth it to you.
My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Zj2002 said:
Yes you could.
My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Okay but technically everyone is a mug in that respect as if getting from a) to b) as cheaply as possible (Kind of the point of an EV) then you are never going to be cheaper than a shed maintained by Kenneth on his drive not withstanding government tax dodge incentives. My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Tigger2050 said:
Export values are about the value of the products you provide to other nations. China is strong on physical goods the UK (and the USA) are strong on other products.
The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
Because the vast majority of services are concentrated amongst a very small and privileged service industry centralised in London. The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
And yet we're 14th in the world for value of goods exports, but again focused on very high value goods.
Cars ($29.4B), Gas Turbines ($29.2B), Crude Petroleum ($26.3B), and Packaged Medicaments ($20.3B
KingGary said:
I didn’t start anything, I just said leasing is for mugs. It’s designed on the most part for the financially illiterate, to empty their pockets, and make them sink their income into something they would otherwise be unable to afford. Our whole economy has been built on debt.
Absolutely right Gary.All these mugs buying new cars when they could buy a newly-manufactured shed at a fraction of the cost.
Second-hand car manufacturers are two a penny on this planet.
The importance of the new car supply chain to the functioning of the second hand market is totally overblown, in fact no such relationship exists.
Not.
BricktopST205 said:
Zj2002 said:
Yes you could.
My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Okay but technically everyone is a mug in that respect as if getting from a) to b) as cheaply as possible (Kind of the point of an EV) then you are never going to be cheaper than a shed maintained by Kenneth on his drive not withstanding government tax dodge incentives. My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
However it’s not true.
I don’t have an ev because I want to save the planet or want to be frugal. My choice was based upon being able to get a 500+ bhp car for the same cost as my 2.0 tdi.
cptsideways said:
The massive deprecation is certainly generating interest in the used vfm man maths calculator. Mrs would be an ideal candidate for her 500 yard commute! (She does cycle in the summer)
Yup. It's the joy of having to make and sell a product that no one actually needs or is being forced to buy. I suspect the BIK saving will generally be being eroded away by the higher financing cost due to the amount of depreciation but that's not really the end of the world. And meanwhile the supply of used EVs are food for folk with driveways, with usage that fits but generally not the type of punter to brainlessly rush to pay other people's tabs. Long May it continue. Used EVs are the perfect shed material as you can buy smart and then make your own shed rather than leaving someone else to create the shed and then having to ferret through faecal spattered, proper sloppy seconds which could still capitulate on the drive back from the hole you had to go to collect it from.
Nothing is cheaper than creating your own shed and at the moment its EVs coming off their first lease that present by far the best value proposition.
Zj2002 said:
BricktopST205 said:
Zj2002 said:
Yes you could.
My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Okay but technically everyone is a mug in that respect as if getting from a) to b) as cheaply as possible (Kind of the point of an EV) then you are never going to be cheaper than a shed maintained by Kenneth on his drive not withstanding government tax dodge incentives. My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
However it’s not true.
I don’t have an ev because I want to save the planet or want to be frugal. My choice was based upon being able to get a 500+ bhp car for the same cost as my 2.0 tdi.
t. I’m comfortably off to be able to have whatever I want without morally or financially damaging myself. That’s just me but if someone else wants an old used car good on them. I also don’t drive an EV to save the planet as I generally couldn’t give two hoots demonstrated by my diesel 2022 Defender.If my financial circumstances took a turn for the worse I would buy whatever my budget allowed for. You pays your money you make your choice. If it’s not right for you don’t do it.
Mikebentley said:
Zj2002 said:
BricktopST205 said:
Zj2002 said:
Yes you could.
My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
Okay but technically everyone is a mug in that respect as if getting from a) to b) as cheaply as possible (Kind of the point of an EV) then you are never going to be cheaper than a shed maintained by Kenneth on his drive not withstanding government tax dodge incentives. My point isn’t in relation to EVs. It’s in relation to leasing v sheds.
However it’s not true.
I don’t have an ev because I want to save the planet or want to be frugal. My choice was based upon being able to get a 500+ bhp car for the same cost as my 2.0 tdi.
t. I’m comfortably off to be able to have whatever I want without morally or financially damaging myself. That’s just me but if someone else wants an old used car good on them. I also don’t drive an EV to save the planet as I generally couldn’t give two hoots demonstrated by my diesel 2022 Defender.If my financial circumstances took a turn for the worse I would buy whatever my budget allowed for. You pays your money you make your choice. If it’s not right for you don’t do it.
GT9 said:
Absolutely right Gary.
All these mugs buying new cars when they could buy a newly-manufactured shed at a fraction of the cost.
Second-hand car manufacturers are two a penny on this planet.
The importance of the new car supply chain to the functioning of the second hand market is totally overblown, in fact no such relationship exists.
Not.
How is life in the 1990s ?All these mugs buying new cars when they could buy a newly-manufactured shed at a fraction of the cost.
Second-hand car manufacturers are two a penny on this planet.
The importance of the new car supply chain to the functioning of the second hand market is totally overblown, in fact no such relationship exists.
Not.
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