Satin PPF - I'm going for it!
Discussion
So, I have a new S in Thunder Grey. Seriously looked at the satin/matte pain option. Thought about it again and decided that I just couldn't justify £5k. Add to that the need to PPF the satin paint to avoid all the maintenance issues associated with it and the cost would be prohibitive.
In a leap of pure faith I decided to get the car some PPF paint protection in Satin with a gloss black PPF roof. I hasten to add 'PPF', not 'vinyl'!
I get a Satin car at 2/3 the cost of the factory paint, with PPF protection and no issues with maintaining the finish.
The car was dropped off this morning and the the news from the detailers is:
The lettering and logos on the vehicle were possibly the easiest they have ever removed (they are stuck on). The letters put up no resistance whatsoever. I will take this as a win in my case but on the other hand part of me thinks they should be well stuck. Here's hoping I don't end up with a 'NEPALI' by mistake.
The only other point of concern for me was the factory fitted PPF on the rear arches. There are lots of horror stories about thick OEM PPF being applied at factory before paints have cured properly, causing issues when removing it to fit aftermarket protection. I can report that in my case the default PPF fitted at the Alpine factory is pretty decent and came off with no issues at all.
Furthermore, no issues at all with any of the factory paint. Loos like the QA process at Alpine is working.
I will report at the end of the week when the car comes back (with photos).
In a leap of pure faith I decided to get the car some PPF paint protection in Satin with a gloss black PPF roof. I hasten to add 'PPF', not 'vinyl'!
I get a Satin car at 2/3 the cost of the factory paint, with PPF protection and no issues with maintaining the finish.
The car was dropped off this morning and the the news from the detailers is:
The lettering and logos on the vehicle were possibly the easiest they have ever removed (they are stuck on). The letters put up no resistance whatsoever. I will take this as a win in my case but on the other hand part of me thinks they should be well stuck. Here's hoping I don't end up with a 'NEPALI' by mistake.
The only other point of concern for me was the factory fitted PPF on the rear arches. There are lots of horror stories about thick OEM PPF being applied at factory before paints have cured properly, causing issues when removing it to fit aftermarket protection. I can report that in my case the default PPF fitted at the Alpine factory is pretty decent and came off with no issues at all.
Furthermore, no issues at all with any of the factory paint. Loos like the QA process at Alpine is working.
I will report at the end of the week when the car comes back (with photos).
tony993 said:
Good to know the factory PPF comes off easily. I asked them not to put any on my car (due next year), although I expect they will.
Are your PPF guys going to remove the door mirrors so the PPF goes under the stalks/brackets that come out of the door, or will they fit around these with a join in the PPF above?
Mirrors are coming off...Are your PPF guys going to remove the door mirrors so the PPF goes under the stalks/brackets that come out of the door, or will they fit around these with a join in the PPF above?
tony993 said:
That's good. This is something I'm not happy about with the people I was intending to use. They said they wouldn't take the mirrors off. They have a very good reputation & my Dad has used them several times, with good results, but when I asked them about taking the mirrors off, they didn't want to do it. They're not cheap, either, at £3,960 (incl VAT) for the whole car.
They did say they'd edit the template before cutting the film, to bring it closer to the lights - this was after I mentioned I'd seen a picture of an A110 with a much bigger gap than I thought necessary between the edges of the film & the front lights.
I had various quotes from £3k to £4.5k. In the end I kinda had to jump. I’ve seen their work and was very specific about the quality of job I needed. They were also super keen to have the Alpine in their portfolio and have asked for two extra days (1 week total) to spend on it. In the end, unless you have prior experience, you have to take a chance on a company you ‘think’ might do a good job. They also know that my Alpine is going for a full studio shoot in Bournemouth where they have an infinity cove. The photographer wants to shoot my Alpine for his portfolio (he shot my Nomad). So the PPF fitter has seen the level of finish required. I’m still nervous of the unknown though.They did say they'd edit the template before cutting the film, to bring it closer to the lights - this was after I mentioned I'd seen a picture of an A110 with a much bigger gap than I thought necessary between the edges of the film & the front lights.
So... work in progress. The black PPF roof is on and the satin is on the A pillar etc.
Anyone that is hankering over a special black roof paint job should just get the roof done in PPF. Several people have asked whether it is a glass roof.
Anyone that is hankering over a special black roof paint job should just get the roof done in PPF. Several people have asked whether it is a glass roof.
Edited by Coilover on Tuesday 7th December 23:32
tony993 said:
Think Wraps are no further from Winchester than the other place I was considering, so I'll consider them too. Please report back once you've had a good look at your car, & washed it a couple of times. If there's anything they might have done better, I'd be very keen to hear about it, perhaps by message if it's something you don't want to post.
I'm going to get my A110 trailered to the PPF place before I drive it.
I have a 2012 12C (inherited from my Dad a few months ago) that had full PPF as soon as it left the factory. PPF was quite a new thing back then. 9+ years later & the car still looks like new. Some of the McLaren directors were at McLaren Ascot for a meeting when the car was there a while ago, & they said it was the best 12C they'd seen for many years, & asked my Dad who did his detailing (he did it all himself). The PPF was certainly money well spent on that car..
+ I'm sure you thought of this, but just in case: did you remember to ask them to do the inside of the doors, so everything matches?
I’m not getting the inside of the doors done. I could have it to match the outside but I’m not 100% sure it’s necessary (although it is arguable that having it done at all isn’t 100% necessary). I’m going to see how it looks. Ironically the silver, grey, white and other 'light' colours have the least obvious difference between full gloss and satin. If it looks odd I will get it done, but maybe in a colour that matches the interior.I'm going to get my A110 trailered to the PPF place before I drive it.
I have a 2012 12C (inherited from my Dad a few months ago) that had full PPF as soon as it left the factory. PPF was quite a new thing back then. 9+ years later & the car still looks like new. Some of the McLaren directors were at McLaren Ascot for a meeting when the car was there a while ago, & they said it was the best 12C they'd seen for many years, & asked my Dad who did his detailing (he did it all himself). The PPF was certainly money well spent on that car..
+ I'm sure you thought of this, but just in case: did you remember to ask them to do the inside of the doors, so everything matches?
I did 350 miles in mine before getting the PPF done. As long as you sit well back from other traffic you should be OK. If the gritters are out though a trailer might be an idea. I was slucky that I got mine in before the salt and grit hit the roads for the winter.
Think wraps seem to be doing a good job. I’m popping in tomorrow to check progress and will report back a genuine report on the process and finish with some close-up photos.
Think wraps pricing is competitive, within most companies ball park. I had quotes over £1.5k more expensive but I think they were pricing the job high as they are already too busy and didn’t really want the work. I can say that Lewis at Think has bent over backwards to keep a fitting slot available when we had no idea when the car was turning up and put my mind at ease. It’s always tricky because you are directly relying on the skill of the fitter, so any nervousness on the part of the customer is basically saying ‘can I trust you?’.
Edited by Coilover on Wednesday 8th December 23:28
Edited by Coilover on Wednesday 8th December 23:31
AlexNJ89 said:
For those who ordered new replacement badges, how much did they cost and did they take a long time to arrive?
No idea on badges I’m afraid. They should come off pretty easily so unless they are damaged you should be OK.I have to say I prefer the black letters over the chrome.
AlexNJ89 said:
For those who ordered new replacement badges, how much did they cost and did they take a long time to arrive?
No idea on badges I’m afraid. They should come off pretty easily so unless they are damaged you should be OK.I have to say I prefer the black letters over the chrome.
Here is an update:
Just got the car back.
Firstly, I can say that 'Think Wraps' Poole have done a good job.
For anyone wanting to get PPF, there are some limitations to the material you should be aware of. The nature of the material prohibits an absolute and total 100% coverage. PPF (unlike vinyl) will not go around tight, blind radiuses. So for example, where there two panels meet, the PPF has to stop about 2mm either side of the gap. The same is true for anywhere where a panel comes to a point (or right angle) The material cannot be wrapped round the 'nose' of a pointed area.
The other thing to bear in mind is that you are stretching a flat sheet round complex curves. To do this there is always a risk that there will be a cut-out to allow the material to wrap (imagine wrapping a flat piece of stretchy plastic round an egg!). Fortunately the Alpine has no real 'blank' cut-outs or darts due to awkward panel fit. Some Lamborghinis have huge gaps in the PPF that need to be manually filled with cut-out shapes because of their complex bumpers etc.
So on to the nitty gritty. One of the most important aspects for me was ensuring that the PPF panel gaps and joins were clean, parallel and the minimum they can be. Crooked or wide lines would not be acceptable! Think Wraps have done this extremely diligently.
They weren't able to remove the wing mirrors. Apparently they are a dog to get off and to be honest, if it requires a lot of disassembly I'd probably rather they were left in place and wrapped around. The tolerance round the wing mirror joints to the bodywork are a little slack BUT it is not an issue for reasons I will explain below.
Matte PPF Vs Matte paint:
A matte paint job has a textured finish (a bit like fine sandpaper). It's noticeably rough to the touch and therefore highly diffuses reflected light. That texture is partly to blame for the seriously high maintenance regime required to keep it clean. An additional problem is that any slight scuff will cause damage to that textured surface, resulting in marks that you simply can't get rid of. A full respray is the only option and that isn't easy or cheap.
Matte PPF doesn't seem to exist. When it comes to PPF the words 'matte' and 'satin' become strangely interchangeable. I have samples from several manufacturers sat on my desk right now and I can confirm that not a single one is a rough, true matte finish. They are all a satin finish. Satin PPF has a diffusion layer but the surface is satin. So from the side you get a very flat diffused look, but from a shallow angle you get a semi-gloss/satin sheen (that you don't get with Matte paint). It really is a satin finish rather than a true matte finish. This means that the panel tramlines are a LOT less obvious than you would think when you wrap a gloss car. Small areas of exposed gloss (e.g. around headlights) do not shout half as much as you would expect.
Conclusion
I am happy I went down the satin PPF route. It is a lot more forgiving than I ever imagined. I would have gloss PPF in a heartbeat but the satin is a really cool look with virtually no compromise. It bears close inspection and is so different from a true matte paint job that it doesn't feel like a poor facsimile or like it's pretending to be one and somehow fails. It's a very unique and distinctive look.
The PPF used was 'Premium Shield'. I can say that the coloured PPF (black in my case) is stunning! So glossy and smooth it is unbelievable. It looks like a black glass roof.
In, a few years, if I want a change, I can always go back to gloss.
Ironically, IF you went for a full matte paint job then you would probably have to get a PPF wrap in order to protect it unless you intended never to drive the car or had the mindset to simply 'not care' about maintenance. You would have to use a similar satin/matte PPF. So you would end up with pretty much the same satin PPF finish that I have, only you would have small pure matte gaps rather than gloss. You would be paying £5k for a paint job that will look virtually no different to a standard gloss car with satin PPF applied.
Anyone wanting to see my Alpine is welcome to PM me and come and have a look in person.
Just got the car back.
Firstly, I can say that 'Think Wraps' Poole have done a good job.
For anyone wanting to get PPF, there are some limitations to the material you should be aware of. The nature of the material prohibits an absolute and total 100% coverage. PPF (unlike vinyl) will not go around tight, blind radiuses. So for example, where there two panels meet, the PPF has to stop about 2mm either side of the gap. The same is true for anywhere where a panel comes to a point (or right angle) The material cannot be wrapped round the 'nose' of a pointed area.
The other thing to bear in mind is that you are stretching a flat sheet round complex curves. To do this there is always a risk that there will be a cut-out to allow the material to wrap (imagine wrapping a flat piece of stretchy plastic round an egg!). Fortunately the Alpine has no real 'blank' cut-outs or darts due to awkward panel fit. Some Lamborghinis have huge gaps in the PPF that need to be manually filled with cut-out shapes because of their complex bumpers etc.
So on to the nitty gritty. One of the most important aspects for me was ensuring that the PPF panel gaps and joins were clean, parallel and the minimum they can be. Crooked or wide lines would not be acceptable! Think Wraps have done this extremely diligently.
They weren't able to remove the wing mirrors. Apparently they are a dog to get off and to be honest, if it requires a lot of disassembly I'd probably rather they were left in place and wrapped around. The tolerance round the wing mirror joints to the bodywork are a little slack BUT it is not an issue for reasons I will explain below.
Matte PPF Vs Matte paint:
A matte paint job has a textured finish (a bit like fine sandpaper). It's noticeably rough to the touch and therefore highly diffuses reflected light. That texture is partly to blame for the seriously high maintenance regime required to keep it clean. An additional problem is that any slight scuff will cause damage to that textured surface, resulting in marks that you simply can't get rid of. A full respray is the only option and that isn't easy or cheap.
Matte PPF doesn't seem to exist. When it comes to PPF the words 'matte' and 'satin' become strangely interchangeable. I have samples from several manufacturers sat on my desk right now and I can confirm that not a single one is a rough, true matte finish. They are all a satin finish. Satin PPF has a diffusion layer but the surface is satin. So from the side you get a very flat diffused look, but from a shallow angle you get a semi-gloss/satin sheen (that you don't get with Matte paint). It really is a satin finish rather than a true matte finish. This means that the panel tramlines are a LOT less obvious than you would think when you wrap a gloss car. Small areas of exposed gloss (e.g. around headlights) do not shout half as much as you would expect.
Conclusion
I am happy I went down the satin PPF route. It is a lot more forgiving than I ever imagined. I would have gloss PPF in a heartbeat but the satin is a really cool look with virtually no compromise. It bears close inspection and is so different from a true matte paint job that it doesn't feel like a poor facsimile or like it's pretending to be one and somehow fails. It's a very unique and distinctive look.
The PPF used was 'Premium Shield'. I can say that the coloured PPF (black in my case) is stunning! So glossy and smooth it is unbelievable. It looks like a black glass roof.
In, a few years, if I want a change, I can always go back to gloss.
Ironically, IF you went for a full matte paint job then you would probably have to get a PPF wrap in order to protect it unless you intended never to drive the car or had the mindset to simply 'not care' about maintenance. You would have to use a similar satin/matte PPF. So you would end up with pretty much the same satin PPF finish that I have, only you would have small pure matte gaps rather than gloss. You would be paying £5k for a paint job that will look virtually no different to a standard gloss car with satin PPF applied.
Anyone wanting to see my Alpine is welcome to PM me and come and have a look in person.
Edited by Coilover on Saturday 11th December 11:53
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Swampy1982 said:
Oh wow, that really does look very special indeed!
Congrats!
It's a leap of faith. You basically have to decide "do you trust a bunch of guys to go to work on your new car". Especially difficult as most wrapping workshops don't have cars sitting around waiting for you to come and look at them. You can go and see what they are doing at the time, but that wasn't an Alpine in satin PPF so it was only a general guide.Congrats!
You can see from the pictures that as the angle of viewing gets shallower the more the reflections show. This si especially noticeable on the front bumper, where the surface facing the camera is matte but the as the surface curves away it starts to pick up reflections.
Edited by Coilover on Saturday 11th December 16:28
In an ideal world they would be covered but the limitations of PPF simply don't allow it. You could go for a vinyl wrap but the overall look would be far inferior. Maybe as PPF products evolve they will have greater flexibility in coverage but for the time being the option is spend £2-3k on carbon fibre roof, Paint the roof, install a cheap looking vinyl or PPF with no corners. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks Martyn,
It does actually look seriously nice 'in the flesh' (in my opinion).
I have always found the Alpine can look a little awkward in front of the lens. They always seem to look much better in person.
I think that 'Think Wraps' dealt with those cut-outs very well. They are so neat it is untrue and from a few feet away they are unnoticeable. I think if they were totally marooned in a sea of black then they would stand out more but they are right next to an another area of grey.
I am back at 'Think Wraps' in early January for a standard checkup to ensure that all the PPF is 'settled in' OK and that there are no issues.I have to say that Lewis and the boys have gone above and beyond with customer satisfaction and attention to detail. Simply put; if those guys can get THAT level of detail on a PPF wrap that is designed to be a feature then a standard clear wrap is child's play. I have no hesitation in recommending them for either!
It does actually look seriously nice 'in the flesh' (in my opinion).
I have always found the Alpine can look a little awkward in front of the lens. They always seem to look much better in person.
I think that 'Think Wraps' dealt with those cut-outs very well. They are so neat it is untrue and from a few feet away they are unnoticeable. I think if they were totally marooned in a sea of black then they would stand out more but they are right next to an another area of grey.
I am back at 'Think Wraps' in early January for a standard checkup to ensure that all the PPF is 'settled in' OK and that there are no issues.I have to say that Lewis and the boys have gone above and beyond with customer satisfaction and attention to detail. Simply put; if those guys can get THAT level of detail on a PPF wrap that is designed to be a feature then a standard clear wrap is child's play. I have no hesitation in recommending them for either!
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