Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales
Discussion
wemorgan said:
Returning to the original topic - kit cars need to cheap and fun, because after all they will be hobby cars taken out for the occasional drive at the week-end or maybe on track.
BINGO! exactly and it's pretty pointless people harping on about how they should be all things to all people. If people want a 4 seater 5 door family coupe they will go and buy a Honda Civic not an Aston Martin and certainly not an Atom and vice versa.We're trying to revive interest in Kit cars and sales. It's hard enough these days to encourage people to bake a cake themselves let alone build a car.
Kit Cars offer a superb range of vehicles which you can learn a lot building, driving and maintaining. They can be every bit as good as mass produced vehicles and I WILL go so far as to say that yes I believe in some cases they are better.
We can debate weather a Civic is better than an Aston till the cows come home. Or should we ban Astons and make everyone drive a Civic?
One thing though that is needed in the kit car industry is a voice. If any of you had gone along to the DVLA discussions relating to IVA SVA you will have heard them say that they too wanted and really do need a body to whom they can go to and help them in the regs. As much as people slate VOSA and the DVLA you'll find that actually they too want to see a Kit Car industry
cymtriks said:
Back on topic:
Why is there only one Beauford when so many wedding car companies seem to have one?
Byers CR90
Evante
What happened to the TVR molds or even the Bristol Fighter? Could these make top end kits?
Totally spot on.....But how many people will listen?- Advertising
- Marketing
- Ease of build
- Styling
- Keep it simple
- design to minimise stuff you aren't good at
- stop ignoring market segments
Why is there only one Beauford when so many wedding car companies seem to have one?
- stop abandoning potentially good kits
Byers CR90
Evante
What happened to the TVR molds or even the Bristol Fighter? Could these make top end kits?
Totally agree with above post. Personally I think marketing and advertising can be exciting and if I had a product I was proud of I'd love thinking of new ways to get it seen.
What I find difficult if not impossible is picking a path to go down and commiting the time and money that goes with that decision. Out of all the options, which one could kick off a successful business: 2 seat coupe or roadster, 2+2 coupe or roadster, beach buggy, mid engined full bodied track day car, etc etc. Too many options! And people say work out what the public want, but what if you think if something they don't know they want yet!
What I find difficult if not impossible is picking a path to go down and commiting the time and money that goes with that decision. Out of all the options, which one could kick off a successful business: 2 seat coupe or roadster, 2+2 coupe or roadster, beach buggy, mid engined full bodied track day car, etc etc. Too many options! And people say work out what the public want, but what if you think if something they don't know they want yet!
Edited by Nikolai on Thursday 3rd May 09:52
Yep just about spot on Cymtriks. People do listen but having the balls and budget is the difficult part.
We are not doing any harm by making all these positive suggestions. It is absolutely clear to me that the industry is not sustainable as it is. The products need to appeal to the younger element and then they may be tempted to leave their game machine and try knuckle bashing. These kids are bright enough to understand game challenges and so will come around to needing a real life challenge at some point maybe.
Imagine the excitement when they get on a spanner and something snaps. Panic, no reset button. For that reason we need a product to drage me in and let them learn, just like I did when I was 16.
I had no choice but to learn as I could not afford to pay for repairs to my Spitfire, we will need a few rather larger magnets to get the play station generation in though.
FUN CARS, HOBBY CARS, FAST, CHEAP, EASY BUILD, COOL so as to attract the laydeeze.
We are not doing any harm by making all these positive suggestions. It is absolutely clear to me that the industry is not sustainable as it is. The products need to appeal to the younger element and then they may be tempted to leave their game machine and try knuckle bashing. These kids are bright enough to understand game challenges and so will come around to needing a real life challenge at some point maybe.
Imagine the excitement when they get on a spanner and something snaps. Panic, no reset button. For that reason we need a product to drage me in and let them learn, just like I did when I was 16.
I had no choice but to learn as I could not afford to pay for repairs to my Spitfire, we will need a few rather larger magnets to get the play station generation in though.
FUN CARS, HOBBY CARS, FAST, CHEAP, EASY BUILD, COOL so as to attract the laydeeze.
Nikolai said:
Totally agree with above post. Personally I think marketing and advertising can be exciting and if I had a product I was proud of I'd love thinking of new ways to get it seen.
What I find difficult if not impossible is picking a path to go down and commiting the time and money that goes with that decision. Out of all the options, which one could kick off a successful business: 2 seat coupe or roadster, 2+2 coupe or roadster, beach buggy, mid engined full bodied track day car, etc etc. Too many options! And people say work out what the public want, but what if you think if something they don't know they want yet!
Then you may have a massive success on your hands! Catering for an existing market has to be far easier than trying to create demand for a new line though.What I find difficult if not impossible is picking a path to go down and commiting the time and money that goes with that decision. Out of all the options, which one could kick off a successful business: 2 seat coupe or roadster, 2+2 coupe or roadster, beach buggy, mid engined full bodied track day car, etc etc. Too many options! And people say work out what the public want, but what if you think if something they don't know they want yet!
Edited by Nikolai on Thursday 3rd May 09:52
qdos said:
wemorgan said:
Returning to the original topic - kit cars need to cheap and fun, because after all they will be hobby cars taken out for the occasional drive at the week-end or maybe on track.
One thing though that is needed in the kit car industry is a voice. If any of you had gone along to the DVLA discussions relating to IVA SVA you will have heard them say that they too wanted and really do need a body to whom they can go to and help them in the regs. As much as people slate VOSA and the DVLA you'll find that actually they too want to see a Kit Car industry
cymtriks said:
Back on topic:
Why is there only one Beauford when so many wedding car companies seem to have one?
Byers CR90
Evante
What happened to the TVR molds or even the Bristol Fighter? Could these make top end kits?
Marketing + Advertising- Advertising
- Marketing
- Ease of build
- Styling
- Keep it simple
- design to minimise stuff you aren't good at
- stop ignoring market segments
Why is there only one Beauford when so many wedding car companies seem to have one?
- stop abandoning potentially good kits
Byers CR90
Evante
What happened to the TVR molds or even the Bristol Fighter? Could these make top end kits?
As a rule this is poor. Just an advert in the kit car press and a few shows each years. Why, as most manufactures know little about how this works and its hard to find new buyer. An advert in a mainstream car mag will cost a lot and if small with disappear alongside the big adverts for production cars. Low response. Think differently try to get you cars where they will be seen, offer them for Film and TV use.
Ease of build
Why should a kit take months/years to build. http://www.tercyclo.it/
The Tercyclo show a car can be built in hours. Sadly it out of production current as the engine supplier closed. This shows it is possible to design easier to build cars, that could interest a different buyer. Finding them see above.
Styling
To many kit car seem to be engineers idea of styling. Go to the universities that train designers, these would love the chance to work on a car that will be come a really car not just a project. I imagine working on a car that real people will drive is different to one just to be put on show.
Stop ignoring market segments
Most kit car as sports/sportscars. There seem to only a little interest beyond that. As for 2+2 in the past these have never sold well, in the future?
I agree there are segments that are open to kit cars. One is for a Smart Roadster, Suzuki Cappuccino or Berkeley style small sports cars (under 1000cc).
stop abandoning potentially good kits
Caterham 21 not a kit car.
As to the TVR molds I understand some are in the kit car world, but most left the country for location unknown. Poland is one location, as is Italy or Germany for the most recent. I thought the Bristol Fighter used aluminum, I know most Bristol did. As they are now owned by Frazer Nash they most likely have all the tooling for this. I like Bristol car and understand why it failed with Fighter. It lacked the funds needed to market and develop a big sporting GT to take on Aston Martin and Ferrari. Classicly it sold to people who wanted quality, hand build car that was different and fast. The Fighter try to be a extreme performance car with all that meant but keeping that hand built feel. It did not worker, as the buyer got that from an Aston or Bentley GT without the problems of owning a Bristol. A very rare car, that most people did not know and it looked odd.
qdos said:
One thing though that is needed in the kit car industry is a voice. If any of you had gone along to the DVLA discussions relating to IVA SVA you will have heard them say that they too wanted and really do need a body to whom they can go to and help them in the regs.
The industry has had one for years: STATUS.The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
Sam_68 said:
The industry has had one for years: STATUS.
The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
Visiting the site and read about them, they appeared to more of support group for manufacturers and technology development. None of the people listed seem to be connect to or come from the kit car industry. I feel the kit industry need more than this. It is a start.The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
Sam_68 said:
The industry has had one for years: STATUS.
The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
I agree with you.The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
fuoriserie said:
Sam_68 said:
The industry has had one for years: STATUS.
The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
I agree with you.The list of members is available here. Note the small number of kit manufacturers.
Why doesn't it work?
I'm guessing because it costs money, so the majority of manufacturers aren't willing to support it, 'cos the industry isn't profitable enough for them to recoup those costs...
Similarly with professional design/development. I have some idea how much this costs, and it ain't pretty. The sad truth is that the size of the current kit car market isn't big enough to allow manufacturers to amortise the costs of 'proper' design and development across the relatively small numbers of cars being sold.
KDIcarmad said:
Visiting the site and read about them, they appeared to more of support group for manufacturers and technology development. None of the people listed seem to be connect to or come from the kit car industry. I feel the kit industry need more than this. It is a start.
To be fair, in their early days they were a lot more focussed on the kit car industry, and a lot better supported by the manufacturers and magazines. Their focus has moved towards other areas of specialist vehicle manufacturing as the support of the kit car industry fell away.Yes, they're more of a technical and legislative research and support resource; but they do at least aim toward the small-scale, specialist vehicle industry, as opposed to organisations like MIRA who serve the big boys.
As qdos says, you've then got the SMMT who are there to represent the trade politically, but I certainly agree that their efforts to connect to the kit car industry have been half-hearted at best.
If I was being mean spirited, I'd suggest that organisations like STATUS suffer from the same problem that made you suggest university students as a possible design resource: kit car manufacturers (admittedly for very good reasons of commercial viability) always want something for nothing. They are not willing to pay for (because they can't afford) the sort of costs that proper design, or proper industry representation requires. The industry simply isn't big enough or profitable enough to support it.
What concerns me about Cymtrik's manifesto is that it's all expensive stuff to do propely. Yes, the yoof of today probably would respond to better marketing, better product design, better packaging and an airfix-kit approach to buildability. It's what Caterham already provides, and with 30 years of business development behind them, they're doing quite nicely... but I wonder how big the market is beyond Caterham, for cars that take such a costly approach, and how viable that is for a start-up company? You might sell ten cars in your first couple of years instead of (in the case of the Elite replica he mentioned) none; but it would have cost you three or four times as much to design, develop and market the cars, so the numbers still wouldn't add up.
Stuart Mills said:
So the industry is doomed then?
In the long term, I think probably yes. Some of us predicted that the advent of SVA, many years ago, was the thin end of the wedge. As Pat_H has already said, you only have to look at the rest of Europe to see where we're headed in the end. 
...but that's a way down the line. No harm in fighting a valiant rear-guard action, eh?
Very informative discussion.
I do think SVA has had a damaging effect on Kit Car builds and upon the enthusiasm for the process of building a car and then submitting the result to a pretty thorough test. The fact is, as I know from experience with older kits, that very few of these if any, would ever have passed a comprehensive examination like SVA.
But I do not necessarily think that there are no solutions to this problem.
Firstly, there are a number of manufacturers now offering non IVA builds which do not require IVA and clearly offer advantages in build simplicity particularly when coupled with a one donor approach.
Secondly I do believe that the manufacturers need to raise their game and be a lot more inventive with their designs. I think the example of Stuart Mills, of MEV fame, is a lesson to us all in offering so many different body styles and finishing options on his new MEV X5 range.
Thirdly I think all the Kit Car manufacturers need to really reappraise reexamine and fundamentally improve their approach to the Kit Car market. Every manufacturer needs to adapt to the changes in the Kit Car market that SVA and the increasing complexity of registration, have required, and IMO only a few have really faced the problems.
There are still far too many Seven clones, frequently little more than updated Locost or Robin Hood forerunners which are really no longer appropriate for modern Kit Car motoring. I believe that the days for these kits is well past the sell by dates and frankly, not appropriate in 2012. It begs the question IMO to be selling kits in 2012 which reflect the Kit Car market of forty or more years ago.
The number of uncompleted Kits for sale on Ebay seem to me to rise by the week. I think this is because Kit Builders are running into difficulty building multiple source kits and facing complex SVA regulations. And therefore dropping out.
I believe the Kit Car market needs to change significantly for the better to survive and thrive and thereby encourage more Kit builders. I do hope that is achievable.
I do think SVA has had a damaging effect on Kit Car builds and upon the enthusiasm for the process of building a car and then submitting the result to a pretty thorough test. The fact is, as I know from experience with older kits, that very few of these if any, would ever have passed a comprehensive examination like SVA.
But I do not necessarily think that there are no solutions to this problem.
Firstly, there are a number of manufacturers now offering non IVA builds which do not require IVA and clearly offer advantages in build simplicity particularly when coupled with a one donor approach.
Secondly I do believe that the manufacturers need to raise their game and be a lot more inventive with their designs. I think the example of Stuart Mills, of MEV fame, is a lesson to us all in offering so many different body styles and finishing options on his new MEV X5 range.
Thirdly I think all the Kit Car manufacturers need to really reappraise reexamine and fundamentally improve their approach to the Kit Car market. Every manufacturer needs to adapt to the changes in the Kit Car market that SVA and the increasing complexity of registration, have required, and IMO only a few have really faced the problems.
There are still far too many Seven clones, frequently little more than updated Locost or Robin Hood forerunners which are really no longer appropriate for modern Kit Car motoring. I believe that the days for these kits is well past the sell by dates and frankly, not appropriate in 2012. It begs the question IMO to be selling kits in 2012 which reflect the Kit Car market of forty or more years ago.
The number of uncompleted Kits for sale on Ebay seem to me to rise by the week. I think this is because Kit Builders are running into difficulty building multiple source kits and facing complex SVA regulations. And therefore dropping out.
I believe the Kit Car market needs to change significantly for the better to survive and thrive and thereby encourage more Kit builders. I do hope that is achievable.
Sam_68 said:
What concerns me about Cymtrik's manifesto is that it's all expensive stuff to do propely. Yes, the yoof of today probably would respond to better marketing, better product design, better packaging and an airfix-kit approach to buildability. It's what Caterham already provides, and with 30 years of business development behind them, they're doing quite nicely... but I wonder how big the market is beyond Caterham, for cars that take such a costly approach, and how viable that is for a start-up company? You might sell ten cars in your first couple of years instead of (in the case of the Elite replica he mentioned) none; but it would have cost you three or four times as much to design, develop and market the cars, so the numbers still wouldn't add up.
I have a colleague who has spent several years building a well known kit.Every delay he's had has been down to parts that he was told would work together not doing so.
Some parts turned out to be a unique combination, apparently he was the first builder to actually try that mix of parts.
Some parts didn't work as described.
Some parts didn't fit.
Several work arounds had to be thought through.
All of these could have been avoided without any cost at all be just providing a list of proven combinations, i.e. parts A,B and C will fit together on the engine, part D is known not to fit to part E, avoid gearboxes from years F to G....
Just the prototype will provide its own proven list.
The list can grow as builders (inevitably) try out their own mods and new donor combinations are prototyped.
Advertising could be as simple as a decent website with a bit of effort put into pointing it out to people (i.e. on PH). A demonstrator place in a stategic place (a wedding hire car company had their Beauford in Gloucester town centre years back) or offered for photoshoots or to an art gallery (it has happened, Cisitalia in the NY museum of modern art IIRC) or for a drive off or drive to weddings etc. Years ago I bought a can of spray paint with a Marcos printed on it.
It doesn't have to be a full page advert in a magazine.
My 2p worth.
I am an engineer by trade and a petrol head. My day 2 day job does not allow me to get my hands dirty anymore so at weekends and spare time I have to keep my self busy in what I enjoy to the extent I can not do anymore on our house inside or out - we need to move !! decorating, extensions, decking, ponds - even the garage is tiled/heated/plastered insulated etc !! So I then decided to buy my self another car as I was bored. The budget allowed me to get a 997, 348, TVR or that type of garage queen. I have had many cars - TVR's, Porsches etc and my problem is the bloody servicing and maintenece costs and the upkeep, and the fact theat unless you buy a nearly new depreciating car you really don't know what you are getting. (sorry I am getting to the point !!)
My wife actually said, 'if you buy a car again, you will polish it, go for a drive, polish it and you will be bored again' !! Why dont you build one ??'
My reaction - 'a kit car, you must be joking', But it did make sense. I can build it as I want, I can learn about the whole car, servicing and upkeep will be negligable - and it will keep me busy building it and maintaining/upgrading after the build.
Now (I am sorry if this offends, but I am being honest and it is only my opinion) the issue I had with the kit car industry was the type of cars that I remember being available. I am not a '7' type fan for style (although they obviously have a great history of handling), and some of the other types of cars that remind me of vehicles from the 1950's - also replicas, Ferarri Lamborghini just is not my thing - thats how I saw the kit car industry. I am 36 (was obviously 34 when looking for a potential kit) so still young (ish)and I like my modern looking vehicles.
Still being sceptical about kit cars I went to Newark kit car show 2010, for a day out, burger and a nosey. Yes I saw the types of cars that I personally did not like the look off and that have steered me away before, but more to the point I was plesantly suprised of some new shapes, what I would class as modern styles.
So that was it I purchased an MEV Rocket. I am sure it's not everybodys taste, would be boring if it was, but for me the range was fresh, modern and stylish and with all due respect I think that's possibly why there are so many getting involved into the MEV brand. Their are a few other kits that do tickle my fancy with the simular styling and as long as the industry keeps getting fresh, I think the Kit car industry can still do very well.
Again dont shoot me down if I have offended, but this is my personal opinion, and speaking to lots of MEV owners, it is also theirs. Would the MEV owners have kit cars if the brand or other simular brands were not around ?? Thats the question that I think is possible key to the sucess of the industry ?????? but they are available, as well as the Deronda, V-storm etc and personally the industry kits need to move with the times and modern styling to introduce new interest with the younger generation, including younger than me !!!!
I am an engineer by trade and a petrol head. My day 2 day job does not allow me to get my hands dirty anymore so at weekends and spare time I have to keep my self busy in what I enjoy to the extent I can not do anymore on our house inside or out - we need to move !! decorating, extensions, decking, ponds - even the garage is tiled/heated/plastered insulated etc !! So I then decided to buy my self another car as I was bored. The budget allowed me to get a 997, 348, TVR or that type of garage queen. I have had many cars - TVR's, Porsches etc and my problem is the bloody servicing and maintenece costs and the upkeep, and the fact theat unless you buy a nearly new depreciating car you really don't know what you are getting. (sorry I am getting to the point !!)
My wife actually said, 'if you buy a car again, you will polish it, go for a drive, polish it and you will be bored again' !! Why dont you build one ??'
My reaction - 'a kit car, you must be joking', But it did make sense. I can build it as I want, I can learn about the whole car, servicing and upkeep will be negligable - and it will keep me busy building it and maintaining/upgrading after the build.
Now (I am sorry if this offends, but I am being honest and it is only my opinion) the issue I had with the kit car industry was the type of cars that I remember being available. I am not a '7' type fan for style (although they obviously have a great history of handling), and some of the other types of cars that remind me of vehicles from the 1950's - also replicas, Ferarri Lamborghini just is not my thing - thats how I saw the kit car industry. I am 36 (was obviously 34 when looking for a potential kit) so still young (ish)and I like my modern looking vehicles.
Still being sceptical about kit cars I went to Newark kit car show 2010, for a day out, burger and a nosey. Yes I saw the types of cars that I personally did not like the look off and that have steered me away before, but more to the point I was plesantly suprised of some new shapes, what I would class as modern styles.
So that was it I purchased an MEV Rocket. I am sure it's not everybodys taste, would be boring if it was, but for me the range was fresh, modern and stylish and with all due respect I think that's possibly why there are so many getting involved into the MEV brand. Their are a few other kits that do tickle my fancy with the simular styling and as long as the industry keeps getting fresh, I think the Kit car industry can still do very well.
Again dont shoot me down if I have offended, but this is my personal opinion, and speaking to lots of MEV owners, it is also theirs. Would the MEV owners have kit cars if the brand or other simular brands were not around ?? Thats the question that I think is possible key to the sucess of the industry ?????? but they are available, as well as the Deronda, V-storm etc and personally the industry kits need to move with the times and modern styling to introduce new interest with the younger generation, including younger than me !!!!
Edited by Mabbx on Thursday 3rd May 20:38
My friend and I built a 7 clone but decided to put a Saab Turbo engine in it. It probably added at leats 6 months to the build making custom parts, buying stuff that turned out not to fit, deciphering wiring and making a bespoke loom - if we had stuck with a Zetec it would probably have been done in 1 year, not 2.
Westfield control this nicely by providing a very comprehensive kits that encourage you to stick with the standard engine option for that kit.
Kit cars are so distinctive that they become mobile adverts, so every day it's stuck part built in a garage, it's not doing anyone any favours, pointing to the need for clever kit design to ensure it goes together quickly and easily. Doesn't mean it has to be expensive though.
I wonder how some of the more 'prestige' companies are doing, for example JH Classics with their very nice looking MR2-based Dino replicas, they limit the number of kits they sell and do mostly ready-to-go conversions, keeping the quality and consistency up. But they are expensive.
Perhaps kit cars can't sustain a business by themselves - Tiger for example run a garage and deal with classic cars as well I think? Perhaps kit cars will always be around but only if run as a 'side project'.
I think people are making a lot of fuss about the IVA - yes it's £450 but its not that difficult. As long as the kit manufacturer provides parts that is capable of passing i.e. lights, roll bar bracing etc etc then its really just a case of building carefully and putting some cheap bolt caps and edge trim on. We passed ours first time. And thats a 7 clone, a full body kit would have much less exposed edges/bolts to cover.
Westfield control this nicely by providing a very comprehensive kits that encourage you to stick with the standard engine option for that kit.
Kit cars are so distinctive that they become mobile adverts, so every day it's stuck part built in a garage, it's not doing anyone any favours, pointing to the need for clever kit design to ensure it goes together quickly and easily. Doesn't mean it has to be expensive though.
I wonder how some of the more 'prestige' companies are doing, for example JH Classics with their very nice looking MR2-based Dino replicas, they limit the number of kits they sell and do mostly ready-to-go conversions, keeping the quality and consistency up. But they are expensive.
Perhaps kit cars can't sustain a business by themselves - Tiger for example run a garage and deal with classic cars as well I think? Perhaps kit cars will always be around but only if run as a 'side project'.
I think people are making a lot of fuss about the IVA - yes it's £450 but its not that difficult. As long as the kit manufacturer provides parts that is capable of passing i.e. lights, roll bar bracing etc etc then its really just a case of building carefully and putting some cheap bolt caps and edge trim on. We passed ours first time. And thats a 7 clone, a full body kit would have much less exposed edges/bolts to cover.
Mabbx said:
My 2p worth.
I am an engineer by trade and a petrol head. My day 2 day job does not allow me to get my hands dirty anymore so at weekends and spare time I have to keep my self busy in what I enjoy to the extent I can not do anymore on our house inside or out - we need to move !! decorating, extensions, decking, ponds - even the garage is tiled/heated/plastered insulated etc !! So I then decided to buy my self another car as I was bored. The budget allowed me to get a 997, 348, TVR or that type of garage queen. I have had many cars - TVR's, Porsches etc and my problem is the bloody servicing and maintenece costs and the upkeep, and the fact theat unless you buy a nearly new depreciating car you really don't know what you are getting. (sorry I am getting to the point !!)
My wife actually said, 'if you buy a car again, you will polish it, go for a drive, polish it and you will be bored again' !! Why dont you build one ??'
My reaction - 'a kit car, you must be joking', But it did make sense. I can build it as I want, I can learn about the whole car, servicing and upkeep will be negligable - and it will keep me busy building it and maintaining/upgrading after the build.
Now (I am sorry if this offends, but I am being honest and it is only my opinion) the issue I had with the kit car industry was the type of cars that I remember being available. I am not a '7' type fan for style (although they obviously have a great history of handling), and some of the other types of cars that remind me of vehicles from the 1950's - also replicas, Ferarri Lamborghini just is not my thing - thats how I saw the kit car industry. I am 36 (was obviously 34 when looking for a potential kit) so still young (ish)and I like my modern looking vehicles.
Still being sceptical about kit cars I went to Newark kit car show 2010, for a day out, burger and a nosey. Yes I saw the types of cars that I personally did not like the look off and that have steered me away before, but more to the point I was plesantly suprised of some new shapes, what I would class as modern styles.
So that was it I purchased an MEV Rocket. I am sure it's not everybodys taste, would be boring if it was, but for me the range was fresh, modern and stylish and with all due respect I think that's possibly why there are so many getting involved into the MEV brand. Their are a few other kits that do tickle my fancy with the simular styling and as long as the industry keeps getting fresh, I think the Kit car industry can still do very well.
Again dont shoot me down if I have offended, but this is my personal opinion, and speaking to lots of MEV owners, it is also theirs. Would the MEV owners have kit cars if the brand or other simular brands were not around ?? Thats the question that I think is possible key to the sucess of the industry ?????? but they are available, as well as the Deronda, V-storm etc and personally the industry kits need to move with the times and modern styling to introduce new interest with the younger generation, including younger than me !!!!
My two penneth on this...I am an engineer by trade and a petrol head. My day 2 day job does not allow me to get my hands dirty anymore so at weekends and spare time I have to keep my self busy in what I enjoy to the extent I can not do anymore on our house inside or out - we need to move !! decorating, extensions, decking, ponds - even the garage is tiled/heated/plastered insulated etc !! So I then decided to buy my self another car as I was bored. The budget allowed me to get a 997, 348, TVR or that type of garage queen. I have had many cars - TVR's, Porsches etc and my problem is the bloody servicing and maintenece costs and the upkeep, and the fact theat unless you buy a nearly new depreciating car you really don't know what you are getting. (sorry I am getting to the point !!)
My wife actually said, 'if you buy a car again, you will polish it, go for a drive, polish it and you will be bored again' !! Why dont you build one ??'
My reaction - 'a kit car, you must be joking', But it did make sense. I can build it as I want, I can learn about the whole car, servicing and upkeep will be negligable - and it will keep me busy building it and maintaining/upgrading after the build.
Now (I am sorry if this offends, but I am being honest and it is only my opinion) the issue I had with the kit car industry was the type of cars that I remember being available. I am not a '7' type fan for style (although they obviously have a great history of handling), and some of the other types of cars that remind me of vehicles from the 1950's - also replicas, Ferarri Lamborghini just is not my thing - thats how I saw the kit car industry. I am 36 (was obviously 34 when looking for a potential kit) so still young (ish)and I like my modern looking vehicles.
Still being sceptical about kit cars I went to Newark kit car show 2010, for a day out, burger and a nosey. Yes I saw the types of cars that I personally did not like the look off and that have steered me away before, but more to the point I was plesantly suprised of some new shapes, what I would class as modern styles.
So that was it I purchased an MEV Rocket. I am sure it's not everybodys taste, would be boring if it was, but for me the range was fresh, modern and stylish and with all due respect I think that's possibly why there are so many getting involved into the MEV brand. Their are a few other kits that do tickle my fancy with the simular styling and as long as the industry keeps getting fresh, I think the Kit car industry can still do very well.
Again dont shoot me down if I have offended, but this is my personal opinion, and speaking to lots of MEV owners, it is also theirs. Would the MEV owners have kit cars if the brand or other simular brands were not around ?? Thats the question that I think is possible key to the sucess of the industry ?????? but they are available, as well as the Deronda, V-storm etc and personally the industry kits need to move with the times and modern styling to introduce new interest with the younger generation, including younger than me !!!!
GREAT POST! This is what kit cars are about There are some cracking cars out there and there's a good range of cars to chose from I'm glad you found one to suit you and I hope others will pop along to Stoneleigh this weekend and have a look in the halls and out in the paddocks to find out. Speak to manufacturers and to the builders too. Get copies of the mags. Any one can have a go at building a car if you've got the willpower and you'll learn a lot in doing so.
Come and join us
Sam_68 said:
....the yoof of today probably would respond to .... airfix-kit approach to buildability.
a) I don't think the appeal of a properly developed kit is necessarily limited to the the young 'unsand b) what's wrong with this anyway?
(general rant)
Too many kits are in fact a misnomer, leaving too many important details to the individual builder who, having figured out a workable solution pay £450 (+costs) only to find out that it's not compliant; this is outrageous. IF you're an experienced builder looking for a bigger challenge, there's nothing to stop you fabricating alternative solutions or using different components, but isn't building your first kit car sufficiently challenging without the expectation (or more accurately from the mfrs POV, the excuse) of an intimate knowledge of the IVA? Now, more than ever, it is easier to share important and useful build & design information at minimal cost: most mobiles capture video, and a youtube account costs nothing.
The IVA is as nothing to mainstream type approval and, as has been observed, under this scheme the UK enjoys a more progressive approach to vehicle certification than most of Europe - but apparently that still isn't enough for the industry!! FFS, suck it up. It's nearly 15 years since the SVA came in and the only reason the b
hing stopped about that is because the IVA gave them something better to moan about. How many IVA / MSVA compliant designs has Stuart / MEV alone been responsible for? @Mabbx: thanks for the informative and interesting post. Did it pass IVA first time and what was build experience like?
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