Detling - seasons opener
Discussion
So if Detling doesn't make sense to exhibitors or manufacturers, and it ends up just being a chance for clubs to meet up, then it won't last if it let's all the kit drivers in for free . If the organisers decide to take it in a new direction then maybe tacking it onto something like the BTCC at brands last weekend would work? Lots of exposure to non kit people, massive footfall, and similar location. Wonder if the pitch costs would be prohibitive? A similar thing is already done at Goodwood FoS and Autosport International
It's interesting that over on Locostbuilders the main bulk of the comment on this same show is upbeat & positive (as it was initially here), but later here, negativity rules. You've already managed to get rid of the Stafford show - well done guys, so Detling is next then, pretty soon we'll have only Stoneleigh left.
"We want something new & exciting" - why, so you can diss it & go & buy another 7 clone? (that comment is not aimed at anybody in particular, just at the general negativity & apathy oozing from the latter part of this thread)
I'm quite sure it will be the same people who've commented negatively on the show who will be moaning in a couple of years time "where have all the Kitcar shows gone, I always used to really enjoy them" & I'm sure the organisers will in future ban all traders from using Scottish money - personally I think she should have chucked the beer over you!!!
"We want something new & exciting" - why, so you can diss it & go & buy another 7 clone? (that comment is not aimed at anybody in particular, just at the general negativity & apathy oozing from the latter part of this thread)
I'm quite sure it will be the same people who've commented negatively on the show who will be moaning in a couple of years time "where have all the Kitcar shows gone, I always used to really enjoy them" & I'm sure the organisers will in future ban all traders from using Scottish money - personally I think she should have chucked the beer over you!!!
Russ Bost said:
It's interesting that over on Locostbuilders the main bulk of the comment on this same show is upbeat & positive (as it was initially here), but later here, negativity rules. You've already managed to get rid of the Stafford show - well done guys, so Detling is next then, pretty soon we'll have only Stoneleigh left.
I was the first one who was negative about it, and I was also the first one who commented after having been to the show. What do you expect me to say? Do you want me to lie through my teeth and say it was great? It wasn't. It was very small compared to other years, and it felt more like a kit car meet, one which some clubs did a very admirable job with, than a full blown show. Shows don't disappear because of a few truthful comments on an internet forum. They disappear because they are failing. I'm sure that I could find some negative remarks about Stonleigh or the Top Gear shows on forums too. Do you really think that they are placed in jeopardy because of that? A good show will stand up to any amount of criticism, because it's a good show. Detling wasn't.
Russ Bost said:
I'm quite sure it will be the same people who've commented negatively on the show who will be moaning in a couple of years time "where have all the Kitcar shows gone, I always used to really enjoy them"
I'll be sad to see it go, if it does, but I'll fully understand why it's gone. It's not because people don't want it, it's because the organisers are doing something that deters many of the manufacturers from turning up. Do you really think people are wrong for saying they were disappointed? We've all seen the show in the larger halls, and we know how good it can be. I wish the organisers every success in turning it around, but I'm not going to say it was good when it was a skeleton of it's former self, and, to honest, if it maintains it's present format and does disappear, I don't think it's a great loss. Little acorns grow from where might oaks fall.
Please don't point the finger at those who paid for something they expected far more from. The blame lies far closer to home, and what the hell were they thinking when they said that people like "Lotus 7" were going to be one of the manufacturers exhibiting?!!
I agree that its too easy to criticise and be negative but I think this year was my 4th Detling and each year it has got smaller and less fun/enjoyable/useful. The fact that we arrived at 11am and were done way before 2pm despite gassing to a mate on a stand for ages says plenty, Mrs Nikolai (Nicola?) wasn't expecting me home til 5ish!
My suggestion of tying a revitalised south-east kit car show in with a bigger event was intended as a positive outlook on how to ensure we don't lose a show from this part of the country. Only good can come from displaying the industry's wares in front of a bigger crowd and perhaps not relying solely on the kit show organisers resources to attract new visitors and entertain families etc. I think GBS said they had great feedback from their presence at the British Specialist Manufacturer stand at FoS this year.
Regarding new and interesting, my favourite cars at Detling were a couple of Fisher Furys (or derivatives of them)and a few of the many 7s - these are old designs. The silver MEV was nice but I'm not a huge fan of the exo style of car, leaving a gap for something else.
To round off on a positive, Russ good work on getting an order at the show
My suggestion of tying a revitalised south-east kit car show in with a bigger event was intended as a positive outlook on how to ensure we don't lose a show from this part of the country. Only good can come from displaying the industry's wares in front of a bigger crowd and perhaps not relying solely on the kit show organisers resources to attract new visitors and entertain families etc. I think GBS said they had great feedback from their presence at the British Specialist Manufacturer stand at FoS this year.
Regarding new and interesting, my favourite cars at Detling were a couple of Fisher Furys (or derivatives of them)and a few of the many 7s - these are old designs. The silver MEV was nice but I'm not a huge fan of the exo style of car, leaving a gap for something else.
To round off on a positive, Russ good work on getting an order at the show
I went on the Sunday and because of the crap weather took a normal car. Can't say I was impressed at all. Too expensive to get in. A fiver for two rancid coffees. Nothing really grabbed my attention (sorry Russ I don't like F1). The MEV Trike caught my eye and I had a look around it and a chat but that was only after going back inside because it was raining.
I know pitch fees are controlled by the organiser hence the costs of food stalls being high but there just wasn't the content in the rest of the place.
I think it does need a date change as this time of year the weather is too unpredictable and the manufacturers need to support it a little more or else it will disappear from the calendar. Did the "stig" even turn up lol.
I know pitch fees are controlled by the organiser hence the costs of food stalls being high but there just wasn't the content in the rest of the place.
I think it does need a date change as this time of year the weather is too unpredictable and the manufacturers need to support it a little more or else it will disappear from the calendar. Did the "stig" even turn up lol.
Russ Bost said:
You've already managed to get rid of the Stafford show - well done guys, so Detling is next then, pretty soon we'll have only Stoneleigh left.
I think you are monumentally overestimating the power of the PistonHeads kit car forum, if you think it's responsible for such terminal decline.Sam_68 said:
I think you are monumentally overestimating the power of the PistonHeads kit car forum, if you think it's responsible for such terminal decline.
I don't think it's just this forum, but there seems a general apathy to nearly all of the shows nowadays, I wholeheartedly agree, Detling was tiny, but to gripe about a £10 entry fee!!!! What would you want the entry fee to be, £10 buys absolutely sweet FA nowadays, try going to a theme park, the theatre, it costs over a £10 for 2 people to go to the cinema for about 2 hours entertainment.By all means critiscise, but be constructive about it (as some here have done), suggest improvements re timing, venue, displays, what could be done to make the show better & more entertaining etc. Just moaning isn't going to help anyone.
If a newbie Kitcar bunny goes on Google & searches for info on kitcar shows & comes up with a ton of stuff about how rubbish the shows are it's hardly going to encourage him to go along is it?
Have you guys not heard the expression "self fulfilling prophecy" - keep on dissing & moaning, don't support the shows & very soon there won't be any - I doubt that will make anyone happy.
Re manufacturers breaking even not being any sort of business plan, I don't think most manufacturers expect to make money from a show (if they do I think they are foolishly optimistic) if they can break even, get more people to know of their product, & create a positive impression then I would regard that as a result, because in the months & years to come some of those people will come back as customers
Russ, I don't think anyone here is "dissing" Detling for the sake of it, they are dissing it because it WAS s
t. As a whole, not taking each stand individually, it was well below par compared to how it used to be. There were a couple of good manufacturers stands, in all honesty the manufacturers can do no more than turn up and do their best. IF they can afford to spend £1-2K on it. But I don't agree with what you say in the manufacturers no expecting to break even. Vodafone no, Ford no, but a kitcar manufacturer who turn over less than £100k per year? Absolutely they should not be aiming at making a loss, not when the outlay is not a bit more than a couple of hundred quid. With the Internet at kitcar forums, manufacturers websites can do all the selling for them, enticing them to the factory for a visit.
Or a show with hundreds and
hundreds of people like Stoneleigh. With Westfield doing donut rides, 4x4 rides, a fairground, huge support from abroad with loads of people trekking from far away to see our fantastic hobby. More cars than you could possibly see in 1 day, maybe 2, unlike Detling where for your same £10 entry fee the show is over in 1 or 2 hours. Stoneleigh is what I measure Detling against, it it was even 1/4 the show for the same entry money it would be acceptable, but it's not.
The best concept in the south east by far was the TotalKitCarLive! Event at Brands Hatch. The very first one on that sunny Saturday was brilliant. We were driving for GTM in a few quick Libras. And the end of the day RDM who owned GTM informed us they had sold starter kits at about £9k each and sold the factory demonstrator V6 car for about £16k. Thats a show worth attending. We had a queue of people all day for the track cars , and about 10 owners cars at the back of the garage, all different, for the public to sample and sit in. It's a shame they fizzled out, and maybe in today's economic climate they would not be financially viable either. The tuesday event we did 2 years ago was a batboy a failure, but I put that down to a rainy Tuesday in October not a sunny August Saturday, not rocket science.
I would love Detling to thrive Russ, but on that performance I'd have a £10 with you there will not geca Detling show in 2013.
t. As a whole, not taking each stand individually, it was well below par compared to how it used to be. There were a couple of good manufacturers stands, in all honesty the manufacturers can do no more than turn up and do their best. IF they can afford to spend £1-2K on it. But I don't agree with what you say in the manufacturers no expecting to break even. Vodafone no, Ford no, but a kitcar manufacturer who turn over less than £100k per year? Absolutely they should not be aiming at making a loss, not when the outlay is not a bit more than a couple of hundred quid. With the Internet at kitcar forums, manufacturers websites can do all the selling for them, enticing them to the factory for a visit.Or a show with hundreds and
hundreds of people like Stoneleigh. With Westfield doing donut rides, 4x4 rides, a fairground, huge support from abroad with loads of people trekking from far away to see our fantastic hobby. More cars than you could possibly see in 1 day, maybe 2, unlike Detling where for your same £10 entry fee the show is over in 1 or 2 hours. Stoneleigh is what I measure Detling against, it it was even 1/4 the show for the same entry money it would be acceptable, but it's not.
The best concept in the south east by far was the TotalKitCarLive! Event at Brands Hatch. The very first one on that sunny Saturday was brilliant. We were driving for GTM in a few quick Libras. And the end of the day RDM who owned GTM informed us they had sold starter kits at about £9k each and sold the factory demonstrator V6 car for about £16k. Thats a show worth attending. We had a queue of people all day for the track cars , and about 10 owners cars at the back of the garage, all different, for the public to sample and sit in. It's a shame they fizzled out, and maybe in today's economic climate they would not be financially viable either. The tuesday event we did 2 years ago was a batboy a failure, but I put that down to a rainy Tuesday in October not a sunny August Saturday, not rocket science.
I would love Detling to thrive Russ, but on that performance I'd have a £10 with you there will not geca Detling show in 2013.
Russ Bost said:
..... to gripe about a £10 entry fee!!!! What would you want the entry fee to be, £10 buys absolutely sweet FA nowadays....
Look at the poo that was thrown at Stafford on this issue.I offered free tickets to anyone buying a guide in advance... free tickets to anyone taking a 3 issue subscription... but the (your collective) answer was clear.
"We don't want to a pay a penny"... "We are the show"... "Not lining Den Tenner's pocket".
All because we weren't handing out free tickets on the day (as well as in advance).
Russ Bost said:
Have you guys not heard the expression "self fulfilling prophecy" - keep on dissing & moaning, don't support the shows & very soon there won't be any - I doubt that will make anyone happy.
Sorry, you will tell me I'm being negative, I know, but I don't think you can blame the consumer for not being enthusiastic about the product.The product has to meet the consumer's requirements, not the other way around.
You can't put the responsibility on the consumer to make your product work for you... you've got to offer them something they want to buy.
Personally I would be happy with a single, well-supported and geographically central show (Stoneleigh), rather than a string of half-baked, badly supported ones.
AdiT said:
Just to be positve about things... Detling, despite it's small size , early date, poor weather, poor attendance, etc, was a damn site better show than Stafford last year.
Now you're just being cruel to Den!!! I think many of you are reading stuff into things I've said that I certainly wasn't intending to say, my main message is to suggest improvements not just sling s
te at what's there or was thereThere were a lot of good ideas in that other thread about what makes a good show.
IMVHO a good show needs lots of cars which is a mix of clubs and individual kit owners and the actual manufacturers. It seems getting club stands and built kit's through the gates is relatively easy - free admission obviously works pretty well. So what's the incentive for manufacturers to exhibit. Money, it's all down to money (as always). I wonder if a tiered fee system based on actual sales made at the show could work - maybe three tiers. A bare bones absiolute minimal - not quite peppercorn but not far off tier for no sales generated across the weekend rising to top tier for X sales. Not sure how this would work in real terms but the advantage of this is that fledgling companies who are working with minimal cash reserves due to kit development costs (yes we've all seen that thread) could actually display to the public and get the message out about their product. Face to face comms tells you a lot about who you're dealing with, faith in product, drive, determination, flakiness! And if an exhibitor knew that they would only have to shell out decent pitch fees in the event of sales versus minimal costs if they have a really bad show would count for something?
TBH the exhibitor list for Detling gave pretty obvious warning signs - I think Setffan said Dutton, Nova and Eagle were listed - perhaps they meant OCs? - thing is not only were they listed but they were also listed twice to bulk out list!! And why list Dax as DJ International - yes I know it's the company name but a lot of joe public do actually know the name Dax - the amount of times I was asked if my old AK was a Dax I lost count (no one had ever heard of AK tho!). Someone might have wanted to see Dax but not given a fig about whoever this DJ international was, lol!
Even some sort of colour zoning for all exhibitors to indicate to public whether IVA required or not i.e. rebodies versus chassis/body builds. Green display signs = no IVA, Orange display signs = IVA required. I dunno - it needs some imagination and not attempting to stick with old ways because they worked in the past. All IMHO and worth exactly what you paid for it
IMVHO a good show needs lots of cars which is a mix of clubs and individual kit owners and the actual manufacturers. It seems getting club stands and built kit's through the gates is relatively easy - free admission obviously works pretty well. So what's the incentive for manufacturers to exhibit. Money, it's all down to money (as always). I wonder if a tiered fee system based on actual sales made at the show could work - maybe three tiers. A bare bones absiolute minimal - not quite peppercorn but not far off tier for no sales generated across the weekend rising to top tier for X sales. Not sure how this would work in real terms but the advantage of this is that fledgling companies who are working with minimal cash reserves due to kit development costs (yes we've all seen that thread) could actually display to the public and get the message out about their product. Face to face comms tells you a lot about who you're dealing with, faith in product, drive, determination, flakiness! And if an exhibitor knew that they would only have to shell out decent pitch fees in the event of sales versus minimal costs if they have a really bad show would count for something?
TBH the exhibitor list for Detling gave pretty obvious warning signs - I think Setffan said Dutton, Nova and Eagle were listed - perhaps they meant OCs? - thing is not only were they listed but they were also listed twice to bulk out list!! And why list Dax as DJ International - yes I know it's the company name but a lot of joe public do actually know the name Dax - the amount of times I was asked if my old AK was a Dax I lost count (no one had ever heard of AK tho!). Someone might have wanted to see Dax but not given a fig about whoever this DJ international was, lol!
Even some sort of colour zoning for all exhibitors to indicate to public whether IVA required or not i.e. rebodies versus chassis/body builds. Green display signs = no IVA, Orange display signs = IVA required. I dunno - it needs some imagination and not attempting to stick with old ways because they worked in the past. All IMHO and worth exactly what you paid for it
''It seems getting club stands and built kit's through the gates is relatively easy''
Sorry but i beg to differ. A look at the main club forums and boards ( kit wise ) will i think show that there is a huge amount of apathy in terms of folks commiting to many events ( not purely shows ).
Sure if an upcoming event is likely to be bathed in sunshine then for sure commitment levels do rise.
Being selfish I hope that Detling is here in 2013 in perhaps another slightly revised format, its local for me and that means that our own club has the huge benefit of being able to have the 'extras' - rather than rocking up as we've done to Stoneleigh with little more than a tent/chair etc.
Thing is there's 4 factions to the 'wheel' as i see it.
Owners need to be there
general traders
manufacturers
joe public.
Each are linked with clearly differing agendas. General traders can sell any product to anyone, manufacturers are presumably there as a bit of a road show, to display their wares to teh masses and hopefully finalise a few orders / answer questions + issues from folks that are already interested or aware of their product.
Owners might want to pick up a few bits n pieces, but generally are looking to kill time looking at stuff that's related to their hobby and joe public needs to be able to kill a good few hours and make a half a day out of it as he's dragged his family along.
I'd suggest that to guarantee footfall shows other than Stoneleigh need to widen the displays to incorporate other types of car/vehicle, which in turn has a knock on benefit for the kit owners - perhaps its me, but i can't believe that many owners are that fussed asbout seeing another westie/mk or whatever - they probably see one at their club meets. Personal opinion but i'd rather wander a show looking at a few kits and a range of other marques.
On the subject of other marques. It's interesting that many car shows charge to display, now that's always been a pet hate for me - but if those monies were used to provide extra facilities for the owners that would definitely appeal. IE/ pay xyz for a pitch and turn up to find a bbq/gazebo waiting for the club, or a bit of entertainment during the day instead of just the evening ( if you're lucky).
There's umpteen things that can be done to build up or strengten a show, just wants a degree of lateral thinking....and i don't discount stoneleigh from that comment. Because standing still as we all know is in reality moving backwards.
...and as far as Detling this year is concerned, well we were fortunate enough to have a decent congregation to keep us amused. But i agree if i'd turned up solo or with the family to wander around then i'd have been disappointed.
Sorry but i beg to differ. A look at the main club forums and boards ( kit wise ) will i think show that there is a huge amount of apathy in terms of folks commiting to many events ( not purely shows ).
Sure if an upcoming event is likely to be bathed in sunshine then for sure commitment levels do rise.
Being selfish I hope that Detling is here in 2013 in perhaps another slightly revised format, its local for me and that means that our own club has the huge benefit of being able to have the 'extras' - rather than rocking up as we've done to Stoneleigh with little more than a tent/chair etc.
Thing is there's 4 factions to the 'wheel' as i see it.
Owners need to be there
general traders
manufacturers
joe public.
Each are linked with clearly differing agendas. General traders can sell any product to anyone, manufacturers are presumably there as a bit of a road show, to display their wares to teh masses and hopefully finalise a few orders / answer questions + issues from folks that are already interested or aware of their product.
Owners might want to pick up a few bits n pieces, but generally are looking to kill time looking at stuff that's related to their hobby and joe public needs to be able to kill a good few hours and make a half a day out of it as he's dragged his family along.
I'd suggest that to guarantee footfall shows other than Stoneleigh need to widen the displays to incorporate other types of car/vehicle, which in turn has a knock on benefit for the kit owners - perhaps its me, but i can't believe that many owners are that fussed asbout seeing another westie/mk or whatever - they probably see one at their club meets. Personal opinion but i'd rather wander a show looking at a few kits and a range of other marques.
On the subject of other marques. It's interesting that many car shows charge to display, now that's always been a pet hate for me - but if those monies were used to provide extra facilities for the owners that would definitely appeal. IE/ pay xyz for a pitch and turn up to find a bbq/gazebo waiting for the club, or a bit of entertainment during the day instead of just the evening ( if you're lucky).
There's umpteen things that can be done to build up or strengten a show, just wants a degree of lateral thinking....and i don't discount stoneleigh from that comment. Because standing still as we all know is in reality moving backwards.
...and as far as Detling this year is concerned, well we were fortunate enough to have a decent congregation to keep us amused. But i agree if i'd turned up solo or with the family to wander around then i'd have been disappointed.
AdiT said:
Just to be positve about things... Detling, despite it's small size , early date, poor weather, poor attendance, etc, was a damn site better show than Stafford last year.
Both immature and untrue.....Detling had 11 (present day) manufacturers listed - don't know how many actually attended... probably no more than 8.
Stafford had 30 (sincerely) listed... with 26 actually turning up.
In the owners area too..... Stafford had 250 kit cars over the weekend.
Stafford failed from a commercial perspective.... Detling appears to have done somewhat worse.
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