Detling - seasons opener
Discussion
''One more that has occurred to me. A few comments here indicated that the show was a focal point of a bigger weekend, where you'd travelled en masse to the event, etc. All well & good if you are a member of SKCC, but why not make it 'official' part of show, welcome to allcomers with a series of starting points (maybe organised locally by clubs), with maybe some kind of barbie / party at show venue on eve of first public day? I'm not sure anyone expects a free lunch dinner these days, but make sure catering is up to snuff (maybe possible to negotiate rate with local gastropub, e.g. 10% off for ticketholders?), otherwise it'll be counterproductive (applies to show generally). Just about every show, there's an 'Anyone going to...?' thread, so the interest is there. The biggest investment might be time on social network sites: make the announcement early to get people talking, builds up a bit of momentum for the show.''
Not to be negative, just realistic. I have found that getting 'buy in' from folks whether solo or part of a club is hard work. There have been a fair few ocacsions when we've suggested various start points for runs in general ( to other clubs ) or have gone out of our way to meet with other clubs for a run to a show only to find the majority are interested in getting there via the shortest route as quickly as possible.
For Detling there were messages on a few sites about a pre-show meet ( brekkie ) which is an excellent way of breaking the ice, rather than turning up and not knowing anyone ( because they've wandered away from their cars).....i'm not sure that anyone outside the club took up that offer.
i arranged a get together just over 2 years ago down here in teh south before skcc existed. we ended up with 75 cars from various clubs, but the effort just to round them up to achieve that was horrendous, the idea had been to have 4-5 start points in teh end we had 2, because no one would commit. and its that 'C' word that is also key in teh success of any prospective show or gathering.
to whoever wondered whether 'guildford' was a better location. I merely threw it out there as i suspect that the running time for many to attend provincial shows is no more than an hour and a half. That location widens out the potential catchment....40 mins from detling in 3 directions and you're appealing to fish.
Not to be negative, just realistic. I have found that getting 'buy in' from folks whether solo or part of a club is hard work. There have been a fair few ocacsions when we've suggested various start points for runs in general ( to other clubs ) or have gone out of our way to meet with other clubs for a run to a show only to find the majority are interested in getting there via the shortest route as quickly as possible.
For Detling there were messages on a few sites about a pre-show meet ( brekkie ) which is an excellent way of breaking the ice, rather than turning up and not knowing anyone ( because they've wandered away from their cars).....i'm not sure that anyone outside the club took up that offer.
i arranged a get together just over 2 years ago down here in teh south before skcc existed. we ended up with 75 cars from various clubs, but the effort just to round them up to achieve that was horrendous, the idea had been to have 4-5 start points in teh end we had 2, because no one would commit. and its that 'C' word that is also key in teh success of any prospective show or gathering.
to whoever wondered whether 'guildford' was a better location. I merely threw it out there as i suspect that the running time for many to attend provincial shows is no more than an hour and a half. That location widens out the potential catchment....40 mins from detling in 3 directions and you're appealing to fish.
Furyblade_Lee said:
This is what would like to see, how feasible it is I don't know.....
Let's say it's at Brands Hatch. On a Sunday or Saturday in the Summer. Now, fag paper maths is this: brands Hatch will (did) run a trackday for 100 cars @ £200 each. So theoretically £20,000 will "buy" the venue for the day. Similar concept to the first TotalKitCarLive! format, granted. Two cars per garage, so for £400 a manufacturer will get a "stand" of a Brands Hatch garage. Cleverly in the past ( I know this is what GTM did ) manufacturers got 2 keen drivers of their vehicles to pay for the trackday themselves, and be willing to give passenger rides for free ( or a small donation ) So possibly, the msnufacturer has now had to lay out nothing.... You then get upto 6 of your cars ( willing owners again ) to park at the back of the garage with a static display of their marque, showing people them up close.
3 things I think which are fundamental to kitcars are:
1) Building them. I know Stiggy is doing this at Stoneleigh, building a car in front of the public as they watch.
2) Driving them. Passenger rides ( with signed indemnities of course ) of either around the track OR on the surrounding country roads so people can experience what they are like to drive. Brands also has a rally stage, go kart track and off-road course, which for instance the Dakar Folk could demonstrate on. At worst, Brands themselves could charge for rides with their own vehicles.
3) Amateur Motorsport. Many of use kitcars for this, and hold MSA licences for sprints / hillclimbs / full on racing. It's a big part of kit car ownership for many. Maybe in the huge carpark where Caterham do their drift academy ( which could be run anyway?? a sprint could be held featuring kitcars only?? Someone like Sevenoaks Motor Club could get involved, they are the local car club. Or maybe early evening do a proper sprint on the main circuit, that is certainly viable and does happen anyway there.
And live music in the evening, needn't cost much, many bands are willing to play cheaply if they have a big audience. Maybe even have a open mic bandstand for local bands to play.
Traders, a marquee could be errected for people like CBS to sell from, autojumble, car sales area, tech talk about IVA, maybe a compare and start ramp style bit where during the day each manufacturer will park a car on and give a 10 minute speech about the company and vehicle?
Finally, advertise it heavily between ALL the mags, and outside press, call it something like "KitcarFest" with camping, evening BBQ and campfire, music. Maybe an organised run around for attendees around the local
lanes just like mini and VW clubs do?
Brands is a cracking venue, I'd imagine the venue will sell itself and Johnathan Palmer has in the past supported the industry. Maybe also an allcomers kit car race from all the kit car race series??
None of these ideas are new, but they work for other marques?
And finally, NO free entry for kitcar drivers. Maybe only £5 each, but enough to take some financial risk out of hosting the event. Like Detling, I got in free but I would much rather pay to get in and have a great day than pay nothing and it be bordering on crap. Kitcars for me are not static inanimate objects, thats for the polishing and bonnet lifting brigades, so the shows should not be static boring affairs either.
My car rights are now owned by RAW who were absent from Detling, I know for a fact me and JeffW would happily pay for a trackday out of our own pockets and fly the flag for them if something like this did happen, the same I feel would happen for Fury Sportscars, MEV, Westfield, Caterham, Tiger, MK, GD, Hawk,.... Just leaving manufacturer to turn up with a static demo car or two and some flyers.
Lee, seriously worried now, perhaps I need some alcohol or something, but I agree with almost everything you say! Only major hiccup I can see is the fact that Brands would cost vastly more than £20k for a w/e methinks. What about Lydden or is none of it undercover?Let's say it's at Brands Hatch. On a Sunday or Saturday in the Summer. Now, fag paper maths is this: brands Hatch will (did) run a trackday for 100 cars @ £200 each. So theoretically £20,000 will "buy" the venue for the day. Similar concept to the first TotalKitCarLive! format, granted. Two cars per garage, so for £400 a manufacturer will get a "stand" of a Brands Hatch garage. Cleverly in the past ( I know this is what GTM did ) manufacturers got 2 keen drivers of their vehicles to pay for the trackday themselves, and be willing to give passenger rides for free ( or a small donation ) So possibly, the msnufacturer has now had to lay out nothing.... You then get upto 6 of your cars ( willing owners again ) to park at the back of the garage with a static display of their marque, showing people them up close.
3 things I think which are fundamental to kitcars are:
1) Building them. I know Stiggy is doing this at Stoneleigh, building a car in front of the public as they watch.
2) Driving them. Passenger rides ( with signed indemnities of course ) of either around the track OR on the surrounding country roads so people can experience what they are like to drive. Brands also has a rally stage, go kart track and off-road course, which for instance the Dakar Folk could demonstrate on. At worst, Brands themselves could charge for rides with their own vehicles.
3) Amateur Motorsport. Many of use kitcars for this, and hold MSA licences for sprints / hillclimbs / full on racing. It's a big part of kit car ownership for many. Maybe in the huge carpark where Caterham do their drift academy ( which could be run anyway?? a sprint could be held featuring kitcars only?? Someone like Sevenoaks Motor Club could get involved, they are the local car club. Or maybe early evening do a proper sprint on the main circuit, that is certainly viable and does happen anyway there.
And live music in the evening, needn't cost much, many bands are willing to play cheaply if they have a big audience. Maybe even have a open mic bandstand for local bands to play.
Traders, a marquee could be errected for people like CBS to sell from, autojumble, car sales area, tech talk about IVA, maybe a compare and start ramp style bit where during the day each manufacturer will park a car on and give a 10 minute speech about the company and vehicle?
Finally, advertise it heavily between ALL the mags, and outside press, call it something like "KitcarFest" with camping, evening BBQ and campfire, music. Maybe an organised run around for attendees around the local
lanes just like mini and VW clubs do?
Brands is a cracking venue, I'd imagine the venue will sell itself and Johnathan Palmer has in the past supported the industry. Maybe also an allcomers kit car race from all the kit car race series??
None of these ideas are new, but they work for other marques?
And finally, NO free entry for kitcar drivers. Maybe only £5 each, but enough to take some financial risk out of hosting the event. Like Detling, I got in free but I would much rather pay to get in and have a great day than pay nothing and it be bordering on crap. Kitcars for me are not static inanimate objects, thats for the polishing and bonnet lifting brigades, so the shows should not be static boring affairs either.
My car rights are now owned by RAW who were absent from Detling, I know for a fact me and JeffW would happily pay for a trackday out of our own pockets and fly the flag for them if something like this did happen, the same I feel would happen for Fury Sportscars, MEV, Westfield, Caterham, Tiger, MK, GD, Hawk,.... Just leaving manufacturer to turn up with a static demo car or two and some flyers.
As an aside I was asked to take a couple of cars along to a VW bash up near Stanstead last w/e, this was all outdoors & ok they were lucky enough to get decent weather, but what a difference to a Kitcar event, around 1500 people thro' the gate, loads & loads of VW campers beetles & derivatives, nobody moaning about being charged a tenner to get in (or a fiver if you wore stripes!), loads of non - car stalls & stuff for the non-car enthusiasts to look at/purchase, sensibly priced grub, beer tent, music all the time & live music some of the time & above all everyone seemed happy - could it simply be that Kitcar buffs are naturally unhappy people!!??
greengreenwood7 said:
to whoever wondered whether 'guildford' was a better location. I merely threw it out there as i suspect that the running time for many to attend provincial shows is no more than an hour and a half. That location widens out the potential catchment....40 mins from detling in 3 directions and you're appealing to fish.
Sorry Greengreenwood, it was me, I've read my post back and it's a little more negative than I intended. I do agree that the Guildford area would open it up to more people - somewhere near the M25 would be ideal. (From a selfish point of view, as I'm in the Reading area, Guildford would be MUCH better!)
But another poster mentioned Dunsfold. Now although Dunsfold probably has the right sort of facilities (not sure, never been) it seems a little out in the wilds to me.
At least Detling's handy for the motorway!
Thinking of Dunsfold, though, are there any other airfield type track-day venues with buildings that could accommodate a decent indoor show? I suppose there's a reasonable chance they'd be a little isolated, though.
O/T Just signed up on the SKCC site
Russ Bost said:
What about Lydden or is none of it undercover?
I think that it's important to gain as much interest outside the kit car family as possible, and Lidden seems to be at the back end of nowhere. I can't see there would be much casual interest if you held it there.Taking into account population density, the south section of the M25/M23 would be ideal, but there's a bit of a lack of venues that have a hall and something that could be used as a track.
Biggin Hill seems like a good choice, but given that they don't even do the Air Show any more, I doubt that they'd find a few thousand for a car show all that interesting.
Russ Bost said:
As an aside I was asked to take a couple of cars along to a VW bash up near Stanstead last w/e, this was all outdoors & ok they were lucky enough to get decent weather, but what a difference to a Kitcar event, around 1500 people thro' the gate, loads & loads of VW campers beetles & derivatives, nobody moaning about being charged a tenner to get in (or a fiver if you wore stripes!), loads of non - car stalls & stuff for the non-car enthusiasts to look at/purchase, sensibly priced grub, beer tent, music all the time & live music some of the time & above all everyone seemed happy - could it simply be that Kitcar buffs are naturally unhappy people!!??
Russ you're right, I said in an earlier post about Bug Jam at Santa Pod being an awesome show cause the aircooled people are all friendly and laid back. I'm sure thats the case with kit people too, I've just not seen it so much. You don't get some of the flat-cap or super-geeks in that scene. It is a uch bigger and more developed scene though so this is merely me responding to your post, no help to the thread subject whatsoever..!Nikolai said:
Russ Bost said:
As an aside I was asked to take a couple of cars along to a VW bash up near Stanstead last w/e, this was all outdoors & ok they were lucky enough to get decent weather, but what a difference to a Kitcar event, around 1500 people thro' the gate, loads & loads of VW campers beetles & derivatives, nobody moaning about being charged a tenner to get in (or a fiver if you wore stripes!), loads of non - car stalls & stuff for the non-car enthusiasts to look at/purchase, sensibly priced grub, beer tent, music all the time & live music some of the time & above all everyone seemed happy - could it simply be that Kitcar buffs are naturally unhappy people!!??
Russ you're right, I said in an earlier post about Bug Jam at Santa Pod being an awesome show cause the aircooled people are all friendly and laid back. I'm sure thats the case with kit people too, I've just not seen it so much. You don't get some of the flat-cap or super-geeks in that scene. It is a uch bigger and more developed scene though so this is merely me responding to your post, no help to the thread subject whatsoever..!To solve the conundrum we have to look at events and car meetings that ARE successful. By examining the detail and success of other auto venues enjoy we may be able to define some if the changes` needed in Kit Car Shows.
There is a very successful regular meeting of car nuts in Thorpe Satchville in Leicestershire every few months. Very wide and varied groups attend including some Kit Cars. The venue is not a show as such but is a very successful meeting of a lot of Auto enthusiasts. Literally hundreds of cars and thousands of enthusiasts with their families.
Whilst this is not entirely directly related to the success or otherwise of KC shows, the extent of the camaraderie and excellent atmosphere is certainly something KC owners should be aware about.
Equally as others have said the atmosphere and welcoming approach of the Hot Rods at Santa Pod and other such venues and the significant attendance that these shows do create, must be worth examination if we are to find a way of rediscovering a future for Kit Car shows in the UK. Good post!
i might be a tad naive but i dont see creating a gathering of cars / show that suits the owners and the public that tricky.
If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
: 
greengreenwood7 said:
i might be a tad naive but i dont see creating a gathering of cars / show that suits the owners and the public that tricky.
If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
Suggested something vaguely similar to the UK Cobra Club back in my cob owning days - trying to get bigger turn outs to events and more interesting stuff I suggested a tie in with the stronger Hot Rod scene a "Rods 'n Cobs" show - fell on (particularly) stoney ground! But yes I think your suggestion definitely has legs - safety in numbers and all that! Maybe not twin up with a marque that regularly gets butchered to make kits with though, eh? If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
smash said:
greengreenwood7 said:
i might be a tad naive but i dont see creating a gathering of cars / show that suits the owners and the public that tricky.
If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
Suggested something vaguely similar to the UK Cobra Club back in my cob owning days - trying to get bigger turn outs to events and more interesting stuff I suggested a tie in with the stronger Hot Rod scene a "Rods 'n Cobs" show - fell on (particularly) stoney ground! But yes I think your suggestion definitely has legs - safety in numbers and all that! Maybe not twin up with a marque that regularly gets butchered to make kits with though, eh? If a show or gathering is designed to make the owners happy ( i dont refer to kc's) then in time the public follow as they realise that there's plenty to look around - throw in enough stuff to amuse them and thats 2 happy contingents.
However adding traders to the mix is where the added pressure / problem comes. That said if they see a worthwhile gathering i'm sure they'd be keen to get involved.
since before this thread started i've been wondering about a venue to try out this theory. the premise would be to invite 2-3 other car marques/styles of cars, retro fords, minis etc as well of course as kits. Throw in a bbq/food, band in teh afternoon and see what happens. so far have been stumped on finding the right venue......but if it worked then i guess one could be reasonably sure that the foundations would have been laid for something on a larger scale the following year.
so if any bright spark knows a farm with barn in the surrey/north sussex area........
I thought that, hordes of kit car enthusiasts hunting through the Fords or Minis for potential donors.
On a positive note Stoneleigh is just 2 weeks today. We will have a kit car build going off every 2 hours, listen for the music and that is where the action will be. It's only a little fun but Stoneleigh is the big one so you need to be there. I expect around 15-20k people to attend. Is that a figure that we on here agree may be the case? Does anyone know how many attend these shows and what the old days meant in terms of numbers compared to this year?
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