Ferrari and their Atitude
Discussion
I agree with you TonyToniTone, that point seems unworkable and a bit totalitarian even for Ferrari (
). I can only imagine it's propaganda by the breakaway teams or, if it is true, that it can be used as a negotiation point for future discussions perhaps.
Another issue all this has thrown up is that it is exacerbating the feeling that Bernie and Ferrari are and have been in cahoots for a long time. Previously that wasn't view I subscribed to, after all Ferrari had a hell of a long dry spell before this winning streak, but it's not exactly being dispelled is it?
>> Edited by TrezBien on Wednesday 2nd March 14:10
). I can only imagine it's propaganda by the breakaway teams or, if it is true, that it can be used as a negotiation point for future discussions perhaps. Another issue all this has thrown up is that it is exacerbating the feeling that Bernie and Ferrari are and have been in cahoots for a long time. Previously that wasn't view I subscribed to, after all Ferrari had a hell of a long dry spell before this winning streak, but it's not exactly being dispelled is it?
>> Edited by TrezBien on Wednesday 2nd March 14:10
Let`s face it, Stoddart is pretty much the only independant voice left at the sharp(ish) end of F1. I suspect that he may be used as a mouthpiece for plenty of others who may be more "commercially restrained".
This is supposed to be a sport, whether this has been true for some time is debatable, but surely they should at least attempt to maintain the illusion.
I am praying that all of Ferrari`s machiavellian machinations really come back and burn their ar*e!
This is supposed to be a sport, whether this has been true for some time is debatable, but surely they should at least attempt to maintain the illusion.
I am praying that all of Ferrari`s machiavellian machinations really come back and burn their ar*e!
TrezBien said:
After reading about the ongoing saga of the breakaway group and future agreement between Ferrari and Ecclestone I reckon they radically overestimate the amount of interest in F1 that is due to Ferrari...it's the racing people want, as havoc has just said.
If it does fall apart (and I've a feeling it won't) what sporting event would I rather watch, 10 F1 teams competing pretty much as per usual or Ferrari vs 9 Minardi-like teams? Actually, probably not even that, after all how many organisations are going to be capable of creating a new car from scratch let alone a vaguely competitive one…
mmm, that's a toughie
Yes because at present in the alternative series you would have McLaren, Williams, Renault, Honda, Toyota Sauber and Minardi. Red Bull and Midland Jordan are currently stiing on the fence.
In Italy a lot of people may watch due to Ferrari but not in the rest of the world. We want propoer racing
..and you really think that a new series penned by major motor manufacturers is going to provide close racing. I think not. The chances of them ever agreeing a technical basis for the sport are non-existent. There would be so many vested interests, that none of them would want to give up any advantage they already had, and then you have the issue of them all legging it once they have a downturn in results/profits and the board pulls support (remeber Ford/Jaguar). It's never going to happen.
What Minardi manage to do on a budget of that size is simply astounding. What people fail to realise that it isn't their 2004 car we're talking about here, most of it is a lot older than that!
The other teams realise that not allowing Minardi to take part ("compete" would be too strong a word) would come across as pettiness and continue the downward spiral of the sport's popularity.
Ferrari are too arrogant to notice this sadly.
I do hope they can get on the grid. They're a good bunch of guys who work bloody hard with barely enough equipment to do the job. My fingers will be crossed for this weekend.
The other teams realise that not allowing Minardi to take part ("compete" would be too strong a word) would come across as pettiness and continue the downward spiral of the sport's popularity.
Ferrari are too arrogant to notice this sadly.
I do hope they can get on the grid. They're a good bunch of guys who work bloody hard with barely enough equipment to do the job. My fingers will be crossed for this weekend.
It'd be amusing if the other eight teams refused to take to the circuit unless Todt signs Minardi's 'release' forms.
Not going to happen, of course, but the crowd's reaction would be great - we could even get a joint Todt/Brawn/Schumacher lynching, which would make entertaining live telly...
Not going to happen, of course, but the crowd's reaction would be great - we could even get a joint Todt/Brawn/Schumacher lynching, which would make entertaining live telly...
There is more on this at www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14327.html and the heading of the article is "small Minds" which sums it all up nicely.
Yeah, I take your point rlk and did initially say I don't think it'll actually occur although currently the teams, with one exception, appear to agree more than they disagree over many issues, the Minardi situation being one of them. Then again I acknowledge this harmony may be created by mutual adversity, fighting a common foe if you like
Also, manufacturers being what they are, if the sums come out in favour of a breakaway series I imagine that’d be a good driver to stop any bickering.
As regards the hypothetical racing, IMHO any breakaway series would be an awful lot closer than Ferrari vs "whoever remains/joins" in the remaining F1 series. Some people think F1’s a procession now? Wait til they get a load of that
Also, manufacturers being what they are, if the sums come out in favour of a breakaway series I imagine that’d be a good driver to stop any bickering.
As regards the hypothetical racing, IMHO any breakaway series would be an awful lot closer than Ferrari vs "whoever remains/joins" in the remaining F1 series. Some people think F1’s a procession now? Wait til they get a load of that
It is astonishing that everyone has fallen for all this media propaganda. Stoddart has (cleverly) made a lot of noise, and every newspaper, magazine, website, radio station and TV station has made a meal of it.
Half truths, cherry-picking, trouble-making - you name it! Whatever has been said/implied/misquoted and shouted from the rooftops is meaningless, simply because we have no idea of the truth behind it all.
As I understand it the cars will be scrutinised today by the FIA. If they are judged unsafe they will be excluded. If they are found to be safe, but in breach of the regulations, the other teams will be asked to vote on whether or not they can race.
At that point agreement that they can race depends upon a unanimous vote by all the teams. If only one team says 'No' they can't race. I would be surprised and disappointed if the vote went against Minardi, but for goodness sake let's wait and see instead of getting misled by an avalanche of media half-truths and speculation.
Half truths, cherry-picking, trouble-making - you name it! Whatever has been said/implied/misquoted and shouted from the rooftops is meaningless, simply because we have no idea of the truth behind it all.
As I understand it the cars will be scrutinised today by the FIA. If they are judged unsafe they will be excluded. If they are found to be safe, but in breach of the regulations, the other teams will be asked to vote on whether or not they can race.
At that point agreement that they can race depends upon a unanimous vote by all the teams. If only one team says 'No' they can't race. I would be surprised and disappointed if the vote went against Minardi, but for goodness sake let's wait and see instead of getting misled by an avalanche of media half-truths and speculation.
Well I think Delia should have got her 12th man on the field the other day - I mean Norwich are a struggling team, and they were playing a team so much stronger than themselves. Stupid, arrogant premiership sides have nothing to fear from a 12-man Norwich & they're killing the sport! In fact, it would be great if all the other teams except say Chelsea pulled out in protest over Norwich being restricted to only 11 men on the field. Then the Blue could be lynched. That's something I'd love to see!
d-man said:
Stoddart has been rocking the boat recently, Ferrari are happy with the status quo and their special relationship with the FIA and will do anything to defend it, whether it's good for the sport or not.
.
Its not surprising when you realise the contract Ferrari signed with Bernie includes the following
bbc website said:
Among the issues concerning the rival teams and manufacturers are:
Ferrari are guaranteed $67m (£34.8m) every year - an estimated 15-20% of their budget - before any money is distributed to the other teams.
Ferrari have absolute veto over all changes agreed by the other teams, even if the other teams agree unanimously.
Ferrari would get more of F1's commercial revenue if they finished last than any other team would if they won the world championship. .
McNab said:
It is astonishing that everyone has fallen for all this media propaganda. Stoddart has (cleverly) made a lot of noise, and every newspaper, magazine, website, radio station and TV station has made a meal of it.
Half truths, cherry-picking, trouble-making - you name it! Whatever has been said/implied/misquoted and shouted from the rooftops is meaningless, simply because we have no idea of the truth behind it all.
As I understand it the cars will be scrutinised today by the FIA. If they are judged unsafe they will be excluded. If they are found to be safe, but in breach of the regulations, the other teams will be asked to vote on whether or not they can race.
At that point agreement that they can race depends upon a unanimous vote by all the teams. If only one team says 'No' they can't race. I would be surprised and disappointed if the vote went against Minardi, but for goodness sake let's wait and see instead of getting misled by an avalanche of media half-truths and speculation.
well said.
do people think stoddart would have planned and executed all this unecessary conflict and hype if the inaugral race of the new season was - say - in europe?
no, he's screwing it for maximum publicity - "poor little me and all this at my home race which i came 5th in once" - all for his own selfish purposes.
just like ferrari, really!
funny how he didn't seek much publicity when he laid off the majority of his airline-business workforce, because he had become so preoccupied with playing f1 politics.
is he that naive that he really entered f1 thinking it was going to be cheap? prey tell - what motorsport, let alone f1, is "fair"?
mr stoddart, a few clues - f1 is a race, a global business, the pinnacle (allegedly) of motorsport and intense man & machine competition. doh!
when someone walks up to him to buy his team then we will see his true colours - he will take the money and run. and all this bullsh*t about minardi being the breeding ground for future champions - give me a break, i have employed plenty of people who have gone on to achieve great things but i certainly wouldn't be that egotistical as to claim to be the reason why!
he typifies a culture of "it's not fair, you owe me!! what about me?!?! me, me, me!!!" - all too prevalent nowadays. it discredits f1.
being a self made man and an aussie to boot, he should know better and have some dignity. what's his game plan in f1? his objectives and motives seem very unclear to me.
mind you, ferrari is also a pain in the bum.
three cheers for stoic and dignified - corinthian! - patrick head and frank williams!
i hope the likes of williams - especially with heidfeld driving for them now - blast all the f1 egos away.
ttfn enjoy the race - assuming it happpens?!
Eric Mc said:
How do you know they are half truths? Are you implying that Stoddart is half lying?
red bull also object - looking like stoddart's playing at politics may back-fire on him. i agree entirely with horner's stance/rationale (see text below). and as for stoddart saying he will chase down todt at his hotel as soon as he lands - well, i am sure stoddart has ensured all the tv crews will be fully informed of when the "showdown" will be. the man has no shame. much as i am apathetic towards ferrari and todt comes across as an arrogant little twit, this demeaning behaviour by stoddart is cynical in the extreme. if his being banned causes a riot in oz, he only has himself to blame. christ, i could have fabricated a new front and rear wing for him in the time he's had!
anyway, here's the latest from bbc web site:
Red Bull deny supporting Minardi
Minardi's participation in Melbourne is in doubt
Minardi's chances of starting Sunday's Australian Grand Prix remain in doubt after Red Bull denied supporting their struggling rivals.
Minardi have not been able to afford to comply with new rules aimed at slowing Formula One cars down.
They can race if all the other teams give their approval and claimed only Ferrari had refused their consent.
But Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said: "I sympathise with their position but rules are rules."
He added: "They are there for a reason and we all have to abide by them.
"My position and that of Red Bull is that nothing would be more frustrating for us in a debut race to finish ninth with a Minardi ahead of us and a point taken from us."
On Thursday night when Todt gets in I'm going to go to his hotel
Paul Stoddard,
Minardi team owner
Minardi team owner Paul Stoddard had claimed that Ferrari were the only team withholding support.
He said: "I hope that this can all be sorted away from the track. Hopefully by Friday morning I can proudly say there are 10 signatures."
Stoddard has spoken to Ferrari boss Jean Todt about the issue but failed to make any progress and said he would make a fresh bid later.
"On Thursday night when Todt gets in I'm going to go to his hotel," the Australian said.
"Without that signature we're in trouble. They are keeping me out but let's hope that is over."
Battle lines drawn in fight for F1
The row is wrapped up in the ongoing political dispute over the future of F1, in which Ferrari are on one side and the nine other teams on the other.
It concerns the distribution of F1's commercial rights revenues and the governance of the sport's rules by Max Mosley, president of governing body the FIA.
As part of it, several of the teams - including Minardi - believe that the new rules were imposed illegally.
Stoddart added: "Todt kept saying it's an FIA problem although Max Mosley has gone on the record and said if we got Ferrari's signature then we can race.
Stoddart (right) in discussion with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone
"I tried to explain that to him rationally.
"I asked him to delegate the powers to some other member of Ferrari who was actually in Melbourne so we could at least have the discussion.
"He refused, and the phone call came to an end without a conclusion."
If the row is not resolved, Minardi's cars are likely to be declared illegal when they are presented for scrutineering by race officials on Thursday in Australia.
Stoddart would then be faced with the choice of making hurried last-minute changes to the cars - or taking his battle to a higher authority.
"As a last resort, and I mean last resort, there is always the option of the High Court to challenge the legality of the regulations," he said.
Team guide: Minardi
"But on this, the 10th anniversary of the Melbourne Grand Prix, I would not want to be the one to spoil the party."
Minardi have been saying for months they want to use an updated version of their 2004 model car for the first three races of the season in Australia, Malaysia and Bahrain.
They then plan to switch to their 2005 cars for the first European race in San Marino, Italy.
Minardi rev up for legal action
Ferrari and Jordan are also starting off the season with last year's cars but have made changes in accordance with the FIA regulations, which include extended engine mileage, limited tyre changes and restricted aerodynamics.
Stoddart said last month that he was confident he would in any court battle over F1's rules.
If Minardi can't race - won't some of the other teams have to supply an extra car to bring the grid back up to 20. I thought that was part of the current deal "minimum 20 cars on the grid".
If they don't, aren't THEY in breach of contract.
What a pity no one is talking about motor racing.
If they don't, aren't THEY in breach of contract.
What a pity no one is talking about motor racing.
Eric Mc said:
If Minardi can't race - won't some of the other teams have to supply an extra car to bring the grid back up to 20. I thought that was part of the current deal "minimum 20 cars on the grid".
If they don't, aren't THEY in breach of contract.
What a pity no one is talking about motor racing.
now this is a very interesting potential conspiracy theory! could all be the ultimate ploy of bernie/ferrari - all sick to death of stoddart and i wouldn't be surprised if the other teams have let him carry on this way as "unofficial spokesman" so he paints himself into a corner.
sooooo, they get banned and then 2 additional cars are provided by a top team/s ... i'd rather enjoy seeing another renault and - eg - williams on the grid rather than stoddart's lame political tool cars dicking about at the back.
f1 is such a cynical game i wouldn't be at all surprised. bernie loathes the way stoddart "cheapens" the image of f1.
if true a damn shame for minardi, it used to have such dignified management.
i know what you mean re: shame not discussing racing itself but there hasn't been any yet!!! am sure we will be able to focus on who did what and why on sunday when the cars have actually raced.
for now, all we have is the politics.
and plenty of them!
On the face of it, I'm firmly in the "Ferrari are unfair" camp.
However, just for the sake of an objective, alternative point.....
Minardi sell space to sponsors partly on a "fee-per-second-of TV-coverage" basis. I wouldn't mind betting that we'll be seeing an awful lot more of the Mindardis on the TV over the next couple of days than we would have otherwise seen.
How does that explain Ferrari's actions? Politics! ...instigated by BE.
Just a thought!
However, just for the sake of an objective, alternative point.....
Minardi sell space to sponsors partly on a "fee-per-second-of TV-coverage" basis. I wouldn't mind betting that we'll be seeing an awful lot more of the Mindardis on the TV over the next couple of days than we would have otherwise seen.
How does that explain Ferrari's actions? Politics! ...instigated by BE.
Just a thought!
steviebee said:
On the face of it, I'm firmly in the "Ferrari are unfair" camp.
However, just for the sake of an objective, alternative point.....
Minardi sell space to sponsors partly on a "fee-per-second-of TV-coverage" basis. I wouldn't mind betting that we'll be seeing an awful lot more of the Mindardis on the TV over the next couple of days than we would have otherwise seen.
How does that explain Ferrari's actions? Politics! ...instigated by BE.
Just a thought!
see www.pitpass.com - apparently the minardi's have PASSED scrutineering.
it so happened stoddart had 2005 spec aero parts with him ... all along.
what a pr*ck, honestly.
QED.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4310573.stm
Red Bull apparently did not bless Minardi's 2004 car either.
So much for Ferrari being the big bad bully boys eh?
Ciao
Zak
Red Bull apparently did not bless Minardi's 2004 car either.
So much for Ferrari being the big bad bully boys eh?
Ciao
Zak
zaktoo said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4310573.stm
Red Bull apparently did not bless Minardi's 2004 car either.
So much for Ferrari being the big bad bully boys eh?
Ciao
Zak
schumacher is clearly upset by all this controversy ....
www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_gallery_image_display.php
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