so what would you do with Alonso if you were Ron

[LongQ]

I haven't seen the TV coverage yet - may not bother - but the stills I have seen show an Alonso who looks happier than at any other podium celebration I can recall when he has not won. Indeed he seems completely elated to have finished 3rd.

Am I missing something or are the photos lying?

Was this a show for the cameras and the F1 PR machine? Has he learned new acting skills?

There are roumours that Ferrari want to employ him for next year - which would be more than a little ironic under the circumstances. Unless they have come to the conclusion that he has adopted and adapted more of the Cobbler's moral code and 'focus' than has been evident so far.

Alonso in a Ferrari could be a very good match of talents. I would think RD would prefer not to face that.

Meanwhile we seem to have the independent adjudicator assuming, on behalf of Hamilton, that he would feel a championship win this year would be 'tainted' and might be better to seek his reputation in future years.

I suspect Hamilton is an honest bloke and such statements might well indermine his self belief for the year and his trust in others who he has trusted implicitly for some years. How poisonous can a supposedly impartial adjudicator be?

Or is he simply telegraphing that the 'deal' done with the drivers - especially Alonso - came with some sort of guarantee to those who have admitted knowing what was going on. (Whether one thinks of that as cheating is not relevant to my point - in case anyone boorishly suggestes that cheating is cheating and therefore .... . On that basis it would probably be 20 year before Ferrari were eligible for constructors points and the cobbler woould never have been around long enough to register the records attributed to him.

On the other hand if you interpret events in the last few years as reasonable competitive endeavour then the current adjudication on McLaren in no way fits the alleged 'gain' that Ferrari claim and the penalty imposed.

I wonder if Alonso is so happy because he believes there is some sort of deal in place that ensures he will score more points than LH in the remaining races? I can't see why he should be so cheerful at a third place otherwise.

Or maybe he has just heard that his Ferrari contract is confirmed?

I just cannot imagine why he is so happy to finish 3rd.

[castrolcraig]

my guess on why he was so happy is because he has formed a relatonship with ex motogp and now wsb resident bum bandit max biaggi, and had a bit of bum fun in his motorhome before the race, perfect calibre for a ferrari employee i think........

[deadslow]

castrolcraig said:

my guess on why he was so happy is because he has formed a relatonship with ex motogp and now wsb resident bum bandit max biaggi, and had a bit of bum fun in his motorhome before the race, perfect calibre for a ferrari employee i think........

Suckin back on a crack-pipe?

[stephen300o]

His simply enjoying beating Hamilton, because he does'nt like him.

[castrolcraig]

deadslow said:

castrolcraig said:

my guess on why he was so happy is because he has formed a relatonship with ex motogp and now wsb resident bum bandit max biaggi, and had a bit of bum fun in his motorhome before the race, perfect calibre for a ferrari employee i think........

Suckin back on a crack-pipe?

well if you are then silly you, drugs are bad, m'kay

[LongQ]

deadslow said:

kevin ritson said:

just pointing out that if Ron isn't part of this, then he needs to remove those that are.

I think Ron has just been fined $100m for cheating. I'm betting he will pay. No appeal. Do you follow F1?

Do you follow the reports?

I don't have a lot of time for Dennis and I suspect he can be a very difficult business competitor but in part that may be due to his sense of what is and what is not morally acceptable. On that point I think he is more than likely fair on balance. for example unlike Ferrari management he has always, so it seems, followed the principle of having driver equality as a guiding moral position and some extended loyalty to his drivers even if they were evidently not equal at all times. Contrast that with Ferrari, the Cobbler years and how they, perhaps, cheated the fans.

The McLaren shareholders will have the last say. Iirc Ron sold the majority if if not all of his shares last year. I have seen him quoted today as saying that hi personal integrity is worth more to him than the sport and certainly the F1 niche of the sport. Good on him I say. Not many could honestly go public with such a statement, I think he probably can.

It would be sad to discover that he was about to remove himslef from the front line anyway (as he intimated he might be about to do a few weeks ago) before he gets his bus pass but that Mosely thought he saw one last chance to denigrate someone who has challenged him over the years even to the extent that Mosely as felt it necessary to try to diminish McLaren standing within the ranks of F1 in recent years.

My interpretation of the FIA statement was that possession of information gained my almost any means was deemed to be unacceptable and descirbed by Mosley as 'cheating'. This I find rather strange and were I a supplier to more than one F1 team - especially a critical supplier like Bridgstone for example - I would reviewing my ability to operate in that environment without fear of falling foul of a Mosley induced bout of rancourous publicity.

But then Bridgstone are FIA buddies in a way that Michelin seemed not to be so they are probably safe in that respect.

If McLaren and the rest of the F1 teams had not already guessed what each other were doing to a reasonable degree of accuracy from a strategic perspective then I don't think they should expect to be successful in any way. For the FIA to think otherwise suggests that they have no idea what they are making judgements about. In any case what may work ion one design is surely not guaranteed to work on another. Indeed the FIA assessment seems to derive from the assumption that the Ferrari design was superior to the McLaren design - one heck of an assumption.

Perhaps the FIA should just enforce a one make rule for chassis, angines and all other components and award it to Ferrari. Such formulae seem to work in everything below F1 these days and in the USA open wheel races. I use the word 'work' loosely in the USA context.

Of course Renault have much of the lower rung race series sewn up, so they are unlikely to make much of a fuss.

In fact with vested interests all down the pit lane there is no team I can think of who might choose to ignore the commercial pressures and take McLaren's part in this. Stoddart might had he still been around as I rather suspect he and RD share a similar racing focussed vision. In fact they seem to be slightly stuck in the philosophy of the way things were 30 or so years ago. Mosley seems to prefer moral philosophy from either earlier or later times.

[LongQ]

stephen300o said:

His simply enjoying beating Hamilton, because he does'nt like him.

So getting thumped by the other competition is OK so long as your team mate is one place behind?

Has this man no self respect?

[stephen300o]

castrolcraig said:

deadslow said:

castrolcraig said:

my guess on why he was so happy is because he has formed a relatonship with ex motogp and now wsb resident bum bandit max biaggi, and had a bit of bum fun in his motorhome before the race, perfect calibre for a ferrari employee i think........

Suckin back on a crack-pipe?

well if you are then silly you, drugs are bad, m'kay

Not the most lucid statments, more like spiteful nonesense.

[deadslow]

LongQ said:

stephen300o said:

His simply enjoying beating Hamilton, because he does'nt like him.

So getting thumped by the other competition is OK so long as your team mate is one place behind?

Has this man no self respect?

FA did the maximum possible today, with the car he had at his disposal. LH did not. The end.

[LongQ]

deadslow said:

LongQ said:

stephen300o said:

His simply enjoying beating Hamilton, because he does'nt like him.

So getting thumped by the other competition is OK so long as your team mate is one place behind?

Has this man no self respect?

FA did the maximum possible today, with the car he had at his disposal. LH did not. The end.

So are you saying Hamilton is better than Alonso and should have beaten him?

[corozin]

My money is on Alonso returning to Renault next season.

Aside from all the sulking and tantrums that MacLaren have endured this season because Hamilton has turned out be at least as quick as him, I'm not sure if any team owner other than Flavio would employ Alonso after the part he played in MacLaren's situation at the WMSC this week and the attitude he's displayed towards his team/employer.

Frankly I think Alonso is lucky to be where he is right now. I think many people in Ron Dennis' shoes would would have just given Alonso a shitbox to drive for the rest of the season to pay him back.

[deadslow]

corozin said:

Frankly I think Alonso is lucky to be where he is right now. I think many people in Ron Dennis' shoes would would have just given Alonso a shitbox to drive for the rest of the season to pay him back.

To pay him back? For what?

[Adrian W]

I'm dreaming but wouldn't it be good if not one team in F1 would touch him (FA) with a bargepole and he got hung out to dry. Thats what the little shit should get for such disloyalty, but i was dreaming

[corozin]

deadslow said:

corozin said:

Frankly I think Alonso is lucky to be where he is right now. I think many people in Ron Dennis' shoes would would have just given Alonso a shitbox to drive for the rest of the season to pay him back.

To pay him back? For what?

Well... there's the stupidity of discussing info from Ferrari in emails, the threats made to Dennis in Hungary that he would explose everything unless he was given priority to overtake Hamilton, the whinging and sulking in the press that MacLaren mechanics were giving Hamilton a better car just because he was being beaten, his unwillingness to support his own team by turning up at the WMSC this week (he buggered off to Spa instead), his unwillingness to share his car's data but expecting Hamilton's to be available to him...

And to that you can now add his "move" in the race yesterday which almost stuff Hamilton into the wall on the first bend of the race.

Isn't that lot enough?

[Scuffers]

I seem to remeber last year Also having a go at Renault not supporting him etc etc etc....

he really does need to be brought down a peg or too, yes, he is a top line driver, no, he is not a God.

[Droptheclutch]

boony said:

C’mon, give Alonso a break. Before the FIA released the info, everyone was whining about Ferrari. Saying they were making it all up to try and get their own way. It turned out they were right all along.

Now it’s Alonso is getting all the grief. What about the engineers who used all the ill-gotten info? What’s going to happen to them?

I don’t believe for 1 second that Ron didn’t know what was going on. He knew, and sanctioned the use of the info – like everyone who goes around committing crimes; he didn’t think he’d get caught. Now it’s all come out he’s feeding more lies to the press to try and save his integrity. It’s a joke. Personally, I hope this is the beginning of the end for Ron and his team. F1 will be a better place without the bunch of cheating tts.

So, you KNOW the engineers used the info? Wow, you must be really tight with Mclaren! Do you work there?

Yes, of course Ron knew all about it, that's why he told the FIA about the e-mails...not. You are either stupid, a die hard Fiat supporter, or deluded. As for this being the end for Mclaren, you really are on the wrong planet. Muppet.

[Droptheclutch]

deadslow said:

corozin said:

Frankly I think Alonso is lucky to be where he is right now. I think many people in Ron Dennis' shoes would would have just given Alonso a shitbox to drive for the rest of the season to pay him back.

To pay him back? For what?[/quote

??? Have you actually READ this thread???

[anonymous-user]

I think RD made it fairly clear in Spa yesterday that despite wanting to shaft Alonso for his part in the fiasco, he has given his word to provide both his drivers with the best car he can and ultimately wants to race for 1-2 finishes.

Ron Dennis said:

I have a personal commitment, which is ingrained in the team, to equality. It [the relationship with Alonso] doesn't really matter, as hard as it is to comprehend. If a driver is driving one of our cars, he is going to get equality, no matter what the circumstances. The team knows very well that actually, whatever their emotions about likes or dislikes about any of our drivers, what comes before is the principle of equality. Yes, my relationship with Fernando is strained. Yes, he was, as I was, very much involved with going to the FIA. I made the call – I encouraged, in all of our drivers and all the people involved in this, transparency and disclosure. You can't hide from the truth. I think the important thing is that when the truth comes out, just to take a balanced view on it.

[rubystone]

Jinxy said:

With all that Ferrari information that Alonso has collected over the past 2-3months, no wonder he has had the edge over Lewis in the past races !
He even had the cheek to tell us all that he alone brought 5-6 10ths to the team...if its true now we know were from...WTF !

Ron should seek to sack him no doubt about it, he has gone from hero to zero this year...toys out of the pram etc etc.

Ron does not need Alonso with Lewis.....

MOVE HIM ON ASAP.

Also dodgy move by Alonso at the start of Spa.

Do you read The Sun by any chance?

[rubystone]

LocoBlade said:

I think although Ron would be perfectly entitled to kick Alonso out on his ear, the problem he has with making him seee out his contract on the sidelines is that it's perceived that Mclaren have "damaged" F1 with the spy row, and to put the sport's current double world champion on gardening leave for whatever reason would probably backfire on Mclaren as much as anyone

Edited by LocoBlade on Sunday 16th September 15:26

Most F1 (and other sporting) contracts have an "image" clause in them from the driver's side. If his image is damaged as a result of actions by the team, he can break the contract and (sometimes) sue for damages.

For sure (to borrow a phrase from Massa) Alonso will have this contract and there's a good chance that McLaren have one too.

Technically then, both sides could claim and counterclaim under these clauses - result = stalemate.

In reality, I am sure that Alonso and Dennis have agreed to see out this season together - both benefit by this - Alonso takes his 3rd title and the number 1 with him, McLaren continue to rack up constructors' points which they convert into cash to reduce their fine (as it were) and end up the "moral" victors...the blame effectively being deflected onto Alonso and his Spanish buddy Pedro. All my own theory of course.