1985 Rover 3500 Vitesse
Discussion
Now this is a fun project that I've been putting off writing about due to it taking so bladdy long!
I love the look of my Vitesse, I really do but sometimes I do look at it and think, it would look cooler if the wheels were a teeny bit wider, and just a teeny bit bigger...
Now I know a few of you will shout that I should leave it alone, but also from reading this thread you should have gathered I can rarely leave stuff alone.
Another bad influence comes from my love of my 1275GT's which now all sit on the proper period racing wheels that are just 0.5" wider that standard with a more aggressive offset.
The beauty of that being a Group 1 based touring car is that the racing wheels fit the regular cars!
Sadly the Group A based Vitesse touring car wheels do not fit the standard car, especially with Rovers special inner arches on the racing cars. That's before we even get to the fact that they're all centre-locks! Shame as there's some stunning wheels.
My favourites below.
There's the amazing Ronal Turbo wheels and Speedline derivatives, the gorgeous fat 5 spokes. (I actually have no idea who made those)
And the epic BBS E55's.
Wheels on any other car is usually the matter of picking a wheel from a sportier or bigger model of the same manufacturer for that lovely OEM+ look, or if that isn't an option an aftermarket wheel. But as the Vitesse was the sportiest and biggest car Rover used OEM+ isn't an option! (the later FWD cars changed so much including the PCD I'm not counting them)
So that leaves aftermarket. Rover also saw fit to carry on with the rarely used 5x127PCD pre-dating even the P5, so that option is very limited too.
I know a few cars also use it, Jensen interceptor, some big body American stuff, and modern Jeeps. But in my opinion nothing in-keeping with the SD1. American stuff is way to 60s & 70s hot rod, and the Jeep wheels are too modern for my liking.
Which leaves having new wheels made, or finding some period correct rims.
I've been keeping an eye out for as long as I've had the car, and came incredible close to buying a set of period Speedline split-rims years ago, but in the end I bottled it. They got bought and restored and I've kicked myself ever since.
So I've been fortunate in being able to travel with my work since Covid, and almost exclusively to Germany.
I've made some brilliant friends who have turned into terrible influences.
One in particular, lets say is a BBS enthusiast.
He has a stunning E30 collection, most on BBS's!
During one of my trips early last year we were talking cars, of course
, and I mentioned that I'd been looking for some wheels for the Vitesse.
After also questioning the odd PCD he said he'd ask his wheel guy if he had anything in that peculiar size.
First feedback was he could have some E88's redrilled from 5x130, but only 18 & 19", Waaay to big for me, and nothing else. He also asked what specs I was looking at, to which i drew a blank. I hadn't even measured the standard wheels yet!
Disappointed I put the idea on hold, back to ebay!
A week or so passed and I got another message, he'd found some...
My first reaction was could I even afford them, let alone if they even fit!
Rare as anything BBS E53's. Part of the BBS E50 family, and actually the wheels Rover ripped off for the Vitesse wheels!
Joe
I love the look of my Vitesse, I really do but sometimes I do look at it and think, it would look cooler if the wheels were a teeny bit wider, and just a teeny bit bigger...
Now I know a few of you will shout that I should leave it alone, but also from reading this thread you should have gathered I can rarely leave stuff alone.
Another bad influence comes from my love of my 1275GT's which now all sit on the proper period racing wheels that are just 0.5" wider that standard with a more aggressive offset.
The beauty of that being a Group 1 based touring car is that the racing wheels fit the regular cars!
Sadly the Group A based Vitesse touring car wheels do not fit the standard car, especially with Rovers special inner arches on the racing cars. That's before we even get to the fact that they're all centre-locks! Shame as there's some stunning wheels.
My favourites below.
There's the amazing Ronal Turbo wheels and Speedline derivatives, the gorgeous fat 5 spokes. (I actually have no idea who made those)
And the epic BBS E55's.
Wheels on any other car is usually the matter of picking a wheel from a sportier or bigger model of the same manufacturer for that lovely OEM+ look, or if that isn't an option an aftermarket wheel. But as the Vitesse was the sportiest and biggest car Rover used OEM+ isn't an option! (the later FWD cars changed so much including the PCD I'm not counting them)
So that leaves aftermarket. Rover also saw fit to carry on with the rarely used 5x127PCD pre-dating even the P5, so that option is very limited too.
I know a few cars also use it, Jensen interceptor, some big body American stuff, and modern Jeeps. But in my opinion nothing in-keeping with the SD1. American stuff is way to 60s & 70s hot rod, and the Jeep wheels are too modern for my liking.
Which leaves having new wheels made, or finding some period correct rims.
I've been keeping an eye out for as long as I've had the car, and came incredible close to buying a set of period Speedline split-rims years ago, but in the end I bottled it. They got bought and restored and I've kicked myself ever since.
So I've been fortunate in being able to travel with my work since Covid, and almost exclusively to Germany.
I've made some brilliant friends who have turned into terrible influences.
One in particular, lets say is a BBS enthusiast.
He has a stunning E30 collection, most on BBS's!
During one of my trips early last year we were talking cars, of course
, and I mentioned that I'd been looking for some wheels for the Vitesse. After also questioning the odd PCD he said he'd ask his wheel guy if he had anything in that peculiar size.
First feedback was he could have some E88's redrilled from 5x130, but only 18 & 19", Waaay to big for me, and nothing else. He also asked what specs I was looking at, to which i drew a blank. I hadn't even measured the standard wheels yet!
Disappointed I put the idea on hold, back to ebay!
A week or so passed and I got another message, he'd found some...
My first reaction was could I even afford them, let alone if they even fit!
Rare as anything BBS E53's. Part of the BBS E50 family, and actually the wheels Rover ripped off for the Vitesse wheels!
Joe
Edited by 1275 GT on Thursday 23 February 08:48
bolidemichael said:
Sweet!
I'm hoping it'll turn out that way! _dobbo_ said:
For me on that car, if you're going to do a wheel swap that's the only wheel you can choose. Not that my opinion matters but hats off to you for making the choice I approve of 
I also think it's quite a tricky car to get wheels that suit! I love the standard wheels so the design isn't what I want to change I really hope it works! I'd heard a few stories that Rover had to pay BBS off as the design was such a rip-off of the E50, but it wasn't until I put them infront of each other it becomes so obvious! (pics to come)
Next picture I received was of the other 3 centres which definitely increased the excitement.
So as I said before they're BBS E53's, part of the famous E50 family.
All 4 centres are slightly different, with 2 being BBS part no. 0253007, one is 0253006, and one is unstamped.
Main difference I can see is extra step in the face of the centre, So I'll make a pair of each for the front and rear "converting" the unstamped wheel to an "006".
2 are NOS unpainted originals, 2 are painted but never assembled. So really 4 new centres.
The story goes that Mr Müller has had the 3 for over 15 years, and only 2 years ago did the final wheel appear to make a full set.
Just ready for me to come along!
Instead of just going all in blind my friend wanted me to see everything before commiting, so I fitted a trip to northern Bavaria in while on a work trip.
The day before they were all out and ready for me.
Had a brilliant afternoon driving up to see everything, chatting wheels, and seeing everything else he had.
I've never seen so many amazing wheels in my life!
This was with 2" & 3" wide 16" lips. The beauty and curse of being motorsport wheels is they can be built to almost any size, from 15" - 18" diameter, and 5" to 15" wide!
This is with 17" 0" wide lips...
One detail that really sold me was the date stamp on the wheels.
3/4 are date cast with "0585"
This is either WK05 1985, which is the same date my Vitesse was built.
Or May 1985, which is when the Vitesse was first registered. So either works for me for a very cool detail.
They're all original genuine magnesium 20 bolt BBS motorsport centres which you'd think would be light, but christ are they thick!
They all still have their full rear pad as well, this is designed to be machined down to fit the car application. Something I'll also get too!
The centres are designed to be rear mounted (lip mounted to the front of the face, i.e rear of the lip) as apposed to the more common front mount E50. (although I've not found out that rear mount E50 is also a thing)
(all researched and discovered over the last 8months, as 3 piece wheels were a complete unknown to me!)
So as I'm writing about it, obviously I bought them, just the centres for now as had no idea what size lips and barrels I would need!
My original plan was to get the centres and then source aftermarket lips and barrels but I got talked into genuine is best...
Next the fun part of working out what sizes are going to fit!
Joe
B'stard Child said:
My only question is are they 5 x 127 or are they going to need re-drilling?
This was what made them the wheels for me!I knew I could convert hubs, or molest a set of 5x130 wheels but these are proper original 5x127 wheels!
Originally made for IMSA spec Camero's, Firebird's, and Corvette's for BBS America, apparently only a few sets were made and this set looks like they never made it stateside!
Offered up to the Rover just incase, and they fit right on. (well the studs do, the centrebore is waaay too big.
Joe
B'stard Child said:
Excelllent - spigot rings will solve the centre bore if you feel you need to do that - although I've never bothered running BMW wheels on my Opels (BMW wheels always have larger centre bores than OE Opel wheels) the bolt holes are tapered so as you do the wheel bolts up it centres the wheel
These will need 60 degree taper nuts (one already has inserts that are 45 degree, so I'll get those modified. Spigot rings are incoming!
FNG said:
Awesome find OP. Really looking forward to seeing these on the car!
Re spigot rings. They are there to transfer the road inputs from the wheel to the hub, the nuts do contribute but it’s not what they’re there for.
It’s not necessarily going to fail but it’s not good practice. Get some spigot rings if you can.
I just had to ask the right people! I've since been offered some 5 spoke revolutions, and some compomotive FH600's too, but they're not the look I'm after. Re spigot rings. They are there to transfer the road inputs from the wheel to the hub, the nuts do contribute but it’s not what they’re there for.
It’s not necessarily going to fail but it’s not good practice. Get some spigot rings if you can.
It's like you both read my mind.
The load transfer is important, it also makes getting the wheels on much easier!
So for anyone reading this in a few years the Rover Hubs front and rear both have 58mm diameter spigots and these BBS's are full motorsport and such have 80mm diameter inners. Quite a difference!
Sadly the closest I could find available were 57.1mm from VAG stuff to 79.5mm, I took a gamble but of course they don't fit, I could sand them out, but there was also too much slop onto the new wheels too.
So I had some custom ones made at 58.1mm to 79.9mm. Absolutely perfect fit.
And yes I'm aware my drums need to come off for a good strip and paint!
Joe
21st Century Man said:
Blimey! I'd forgotten it had drums, and I can't believe they're YOUR drums! Hang your head in shame!
Definitely one of the bits Rover cheaped out on! I have been eyeing up a rear disc conversion but there's nothing readily available, and I think I'd rather have an LSD...In my defence it had had rear shoes before I bought it so it's one area I haven't had to touch yet!
So now we're into the bit that's taken me quite a while to work out.
There's not a great deal of info online on what sizes will fit a standard SD1 body.
I've dug up as many specs I could find of cars still running standard bodywork, there's a few cars with wide arches around but of course I'm not planning any body mods!
I thought a baseline would be best to start, so out came the standard Vitesse/EFI lattice wheels.
I have a spare set or two knocking around so perfect for measuring up.
I don't plan to hide my specs, and hope these measurements can be used by others in the future.
Final wheel specs I'll publish when they're on the car, as that bit I haven't managed yet!
Standard wheels are 15x6.5" ET40 as a baseline.
I then measured up to see how much wider I can go.
Total width including rim bead is 7.5" (pretty standard 0.5" from inside edge to outside edge of the wheel)
I started with the rears. For me I've got quite fat rear shocks and that only gives you 13mm (~0.5") to go inward.
and to the outside lip of the arch 43mm (1.7") (not accounting for the arch return lip approx 10mm)
Fronts you get 25.4mm from the rim edge to the strut (1"), and 32mm (1.25") to the arch lip edge. (again not accounting for the 10mm arch return.)
I've seen a few square setups, but just from looking at the car, I think that 0.5" extra at the rear needs a staggered set-up.
I'm not planning on running the car super low, or planning on rolling the arches, so staying within this should give a more aggressive look without catching.
Standard tyre size is 205/55/R15 square which when you measure has a hell of a bulge at it's widest point it's 230mm!
So going wider and managing the tyre bulge are the main areas of concern! Diameter isn't an issue as that can be sorted by going down with the aspect ratio of the tyre.
First offering of the centres!
Makes them look very small!
This picture shows the size of the back pad on these wheels definitely designed to run massive brakes!
The Rovers calipers are actually mounted entirely behind the front hub though, and run almost flat standard wheels.
So to run these at all that will have to get machined down.
Putting the wheels over each other shows the spoke design lines up perfectly! No wonder BBS weren't happy.
So one tool that was invaluable in calculating stuff was this website:
https://www.willtheyfit.com/
Made working out relative specs much easier!
One thing that didn't exsist though was how to work out what size barrels and lips gave you what sizes and offsets.
This I had to make myself.
I'd also plugged in some wheels I'd found to verify my calculations.
I was pretty happy, but not enough to pull the trigger and order parts.
In a previous job I'd developed some pretty good CAD skills, something I don't really use now sadly! But after a few evenings I'd drawn what I thought was a pretty good virtual verson of my wheels!
It meant I could also verify my calculations which were pretty damn close!
I also modelled rear mounting the wheels.
Vs front mounting the lips.
I've since been told that I kinda have to rear mount them, or they'd need substantial modification. So that idea went out of the window. Shame as it made the specs much easier to work with!
I'd also found a brilliant close up picture of the ISTEL Tim Harvey 1986/87 TWR car (actually the old ICS Andy Rouse 1984 winning car) wearing front mount BBS E55's!
Definitely getting closer!
Joe
so much spigot talk!
This is why I stuck to minis, they don't even have centering hubs, the rears are completely flat...
So while researching what sizes to go for a trip to the NEC was perfectly timed.
My inspiration soon turned into this.
A proper TWR built, Tony Pond raced rally car!
This in my head is perfect fitment for a road SD1 (or Rally in this case) Although chatting with it's owner I can't just steal the specs, as the arches aren't *cough cough* as standard as they look. Good old TWR!
they're 16x8.5" and 16x9", with unknown offset sadly.
I did find some E55's too, for inspiration...
At this point I'd spent months deliberating sizes, widths, and I'd slowly gone mad.
I knew I needed something physical to verify everything, so I reached out the same guy I'd bought the centres off.
I wanted to just buy a few random lips, but instead he said he's send me one he couldn't use anymore, with some period damage lets say.
Just what I needed actually!
I still like the idea of front mounting them...
But rear mount wins in the end!
Joe
This is why I stuck to minis, they don't even have centering hubs, the rears are completely flat...
So while researching what sizes to go for a trip to the NEC was perfectly timed.
My inspiration soon turned into this.
A proper TWR built, Tony Pond raced rally car!
This in my head is perfect fitment for a road SD1 (or Rally in this case
) Although chatting with it's owner I can't just steal the specs, as the arches aren't *cough cough* as standard as they look. Good old TWR! they're 16x8.5" and 16x9", with unknown offset sadly.
I did find some E55's too, for inspiration...
At this point I'd spent months deliberating sizes, widths, and I'd slowly gone mad.
I knew I needed something physical to verify everything, so I reached out the same guy I'd bought the centres off.
I wanted to just buy a few random lips, but instead he said he's send me one he couldn't use anymore, with some period damage lets say.
Just what I needed actually!
I still like the idea of front mounting them...
But rear mount wins in the end!
Joe
B'stard Child said:
what happens when you hit a bump with a rear wheel - your studs will snap and you'll die in a ditch 
Minis aren't the only cars without centering hubs either
You are right too much spigot talk
Looks like the new wheels won't have a lot of external dish but will look really good whatever
Yeah sadly only 1" lips, so when you've got the rolled edge you get about 40mm.
I'm not disappointed with how they look though.
McGee_22 said:
A friend has a BMW M1 which is over 40 years old and somewhere in the geekery for the car there is a comment about the magnesium alloy wheels only having a life of 10 years - he is still using them though.
Firstly I'm very jealous of your friend! shoestring7 said:
Is it safe to use 40 year old mag alloy wheel centres?
Now that is a big point of contention! The argument of how magnesium wheels degrade/corrode internally and molecularly has been a big talking point for a long time, especially with pure magnesium wheels. I know there's been some quite nasty failures, and also a lot of hearsay.
I've had the same internal debate when looking at original magnesium minilite wheels too.
I can be a bit of a know it all sometimes (it's my job currently to be a BMW V8 know it all
) but I certainly don't know enough, or have the experience to weigh in on that argument properly. I've definitely approached the whole thing with some caution and it was the first thing I asked when viewing them. Thomas knows more about BBS than probably BBS actually do! He said the earlier E50s need checking, but the later ones he's never had a set crack on him.
These centres were still in their original BBS packaging, and I'm hoping as good as I can get for the age of parts. I'll probably swap between the wheels if I plan on using the car more regularly, but I mainly only do shows!
The centres are being machined checked and painted at the moment, and I'm comfortable to use them. Might get them x-rayed at work for my own piece of mind...
Since we've been all serious I might finish off which some nice visuals, and a boob on my part!
As I was so nicely gifted a properly borked lip I thought I'd give it a go at "refurbishing" it myself.
Initially it was going quite nicely trying to get the buckle out, but of course I went too far and promptly poked a bloody hole in it!
It polished up nicely though!
Joe
bolidemichael said:
I really did, punched a whole right in it with a pair of pipe pliers! 
I can't add straightening of lips to my list of skills sadly
So it was time to offer the lips to the car and see how far off I was!
After seeing another SD1 on 17" wheels I wasn't sold, if I could get it as low as a touring car then maybe, but I want to keep some ride comfort so chunky tyres and 16" is the look I want to go for.
The lip I got sent is a 16" diameter, 1" wide lip.
Front mount...
& rear mount...
The front mount was actually perfect, but sadly not the intended use of my centres so just a nice visual.
The rear mount I do now think looks better, but makes the fitment quite a bit more challenging, (sticks the lip out by another 25mm. & with 1" lips these stuck out from the bodywork by about by 13mm!
I've got up to 20mm adjustment to play around with if I can find someone to machine the back pads!
I think you can get 0" lips in 16", but they're hard to come by, so didn't really want to drop any further with the lips.
Rear offering was a bit smoother, but they're still a bit too far out!
I'm aiming for around 16x8 ET30ish for the rear. 16x7.5 fronts ET30.
These work out at around ET15, a bit too spicy.
But exactly within my 20mm adjustment range.
So not a bad bit of math on my part if I do say so myself
& of course as promised, the new wheels infront of the old.
Spoke design is exactly the same, to the point were you can't even see the difference!
Joe
bolidemichael said:
I like the front mount.
Me too, I think front mount with a decent lip would look brilliant.mercedeslimos said:
Joe, would you consider some Radinox lips and/or barrels?
Unbreakable...
I've been looking at Radinox, it really seem like the best way forward being stainless, and seem to need a lot less maintenance. Unbreakable...
Sadly in the 16" 20 bolt that I need Felgen Fuchs start at 1.5" wide, which I could make work on the rears, but not the fronts.
They're also flat rather than reverse stepped, which I don't think looks as good.
I really wanted the step like below.
KelvinatorNZ said:
Gotta be rear mount for me. Front mount looks like it should be on some old VW dumped in the weeds, cool, but not classy.
Yeah it's very scene appropriate, as that's the only way to get these wheels to fit cars that need a big positive offset! Although the Istel touring car ran front mounted BBS E55's...
Rear mount with some dish is were I'm going
When I say I've been going over measurements for months I'm not exaggerating, but at somepoint you just need to go for it!
I initially wanted 1.5" lips, 6.5" barrels for the rear, and 1" lips and 6.5" barrels for the fronts.
But soon realised that 1.5" lips are flat, and 1" are reverse stepped. (well from BBS they are) It goes stepped again as you get bigger, but I can't make that work! See below for a pic!
So I changed tactic, and instead opted for 1" lips all round, and stepped the barrels, 6.5" fronts, 7" rears. So gives a nice 7.5" wide front wheel, and 8" rear. I'll then machine the rear centres down less, to give them more poke than the fronts.
Bit more chunky than the standard 6.5".
Again initially I'd planned on buying parts from Felgen Fuchs (radinox if I could!) But I was talked into genuine BBS...
The new pricelist though is quite the shock, but Thomas mentioned that he has everything I wanted in good second hand stock. So Müllerfelgen completely supplied in the end.
A few weeks later I got some pics!
All straight, undamaged, and in need of a polish.
I did go back a forth a few times considering maybe just doing new lips, but kept with the old stuff in the end.
I also of course needed bolts, other hardware, and sealing rings.
In that box is hopefully everything needed to build some wheels!
Now I just need to get it to the UK again! Herr Müller doesn't like shipping to the UK since brexit...
bloody brexit...
So that would mean shipping them to a friend in Germany, then he ships it to the UK. A bit convoluted but do-able.
But quite late into this plan he offered to drop them near my friend at a mutual friend who refurbishes wheels.
I also had a trip planned, so it all seemed to align.
So one afternoon after work I was taken in a very cool E30 325i touring to collect a big box of wheels!
I was going to ship them, but the box just, and i mean to the cm, fitted the size requirement for checked items...
Really didn't weigh that much either...
So they came home with me
Joe
mercedeslimos said:
I bought a set of Abt A9 splits last year (made by OZ) and was tempted to go Radinox (cost!) I believe aluminium lips polished up to a much more excellent shine but takes more polishing to keep shiny. Not that that will be any bother to you!
Ohh I really do like those, have a bit of a feel of OZ futuras and Porsche Cup splits about them too which i really like. What are you fitting those too???
I've also been told that aluminum lips come up the best but you loose that with anything you add over the top to protect it.
I really want to either wax or ceramic coat them to give some hope of them staying nice, but there's loads of options! I also don't know if I coat all the parts before or after assembly! So I'm definitely up for some suggestions!
With all the parts I had to have a little play to see how everything will come together.
Really happy with the look, just need to polish some stuff now!
Most of the lips come with their original black and white stickers, sadly these will have to come off to polish so I've got some red and white stickers to replace them
Which brings another question, do I fit those before I coat the lips or after????
Joe
bolidemichael said:
What will they be coated with? Lip gloss?
Very good So I had some good news this week, I've been invited to display on the main lawn at the next Bicester Heritage Sunday Scramble in their Local Heroes display! As the Series 2 SD1 was built in Cowley it's a local hero apparently! I'd always planned it as my deadline for my new look, but now the pressure is on!
I've also applied to display on the Reader's Rides display at the Pistonhead's 25th anniversary event in August
That's a display place I definitely want!
Better pull my finger out and get everything ready then, but of course it's pointless if the bloody wheels don't fit!
I'm not going to lie, part of me just wants to leave them like this, it's a seriously aggressive look!
Rears have got ~47mm to the strut, and are bang level to the arch.
I reckon another 12mm off those will be perfect to account for the lip return.
The fronts...
With the barrels and sealing rings I'm out by another 7.5mm compared to just the lips.
I've got ~43mm to the strut to play around with. These will have the full 20mm taken off the centres.
But when they look like that, I think all this effort will be worth it, and with that final measurements! As I'd drawn the centres up in CAD it meant it could do some proper drawings to get exactly what I wanted from my machinist.
I'm always up for the DIY, but that's too much for me to attack so they've been sent away to someone who knows what they're doing with magnesium! Can't wait to get them back now.
Joe
Firstly I was very happy when I saw the latest article come out on the Bicester Heritage Scrambers website yesterday
https://scramblers.bicesterheritage.co.uk/post/loc...
Just need to make sure the car looks the same next month now!
Yeah we'll see how much of a pain in the arse they are! I definitely going to give them a ceramic coat, hopefully that helps!
So next on the list of things to do is to make my second hand lips look like new...
I'm still not sure if I shouldn't have just bought new ones, but the more people I've talked to say the older ones are better quality so lets hope!
Two of the lips had what looked like a bit of bird poo on them, so I thought I could just clean them off.
But looks a little more sinister with whatever it was eating into the aluminum.
First run though took ages, starting with 240 grit to 1500, then onto polishing.
This got me a really decent shine.
But I wasn't brave enough with the marks. I also still had a lot of lines, and not quite the mirror I've seen others get, and what I've managed before.
I had noticed my polishing pads were become more contaminated and was marring the surface, but assumed I'd have to just buy new pads, but some research taught my I can clean then with a polishing rake!
It would also explain why my last lip looked worse than my first!
So I got myself a polishing rake and went for it again.
I also had another go at getting out the pockmarks.
I was much happier this time. I haven't got rid of the marks completely, as I wasn't brave enough with the sanding, but you really need to look now to find them.
Of course afterwards the devil is in the detail getting rid of all polishing compound from the bolt holes
The barrels just got a good clean and a quick buff (many hours) to remove any rubbish.
Hardware has now also all been procured, the bolts and washers are genuine BBS, the inserts and wheel nuts are american, but fit the wheels perfectly.
I did want a more racey looking open wheel nut, but these have extra threaded shanks so I can run the standard studs.
I've done this more so I can run a standard spare.
The centers should have the machining finished this week, and then they're off to paint!
I've also ordered tyres.
Going to 16" had opened up some more options, but still not as much as 17"
so Michelin Pilot Sport 4
205/55R16 fronts
225/50/R16 rears
Same staggered fitment as a 328 Ferrari, or a 944 Porsche.
Should give me the same look as the Computervision Rally Vitesse with ~630mm tyre diameter.
Now I just need everything to come together!
Joe
https://scramblers.bicesterheritage.co.uk/post/loc...
Just need to make sure the car looks the same next month now!
miniman said:
Look forward to seeing you at both!
I'm very excited, it's been a long show-less winter! mercedeslimos said:
Hopefully onto my MK1 TT with adapters, bought them without a particular car in mind just came across them and thought they were lovely. I have mates who have splits and are polishing all the time in the summer on the genuine ally lips but the shine is immense
Oh very nice! Yeah we'll see how much of a pain in the arse they are! I definitely going to give them a ceramic coat, hopefully that helps!
So next on the list of things to do is to make my second hand lips look like new...
I'm still not sure if I shouldn't have just bought new ones, but the more people I've talked to say the older ones are better quality so lets hope!
Two of the lips had what looked like a bit of bird poo on them, so I thought I could just clean them off.
But looks a little more sinister with whatever it was eating into the aluminum.
First run though took ages, starting with 240 grit to 1500, then onto polishing.
This got me a really decent shine.
But I wasn't brave enough with the marks. I also still had a lot of lines, and not quite the mirror I've seen others get, and what I've managed before.
I had noticed my polishing pads were become more contaminated and was marring the surface, but assumed I'd have to just buy new pads, but some research taught my I can clean then with a polishing rake!
It would also explain why my last lip looked worse than my first!
So I got myself a polishing rake and went for it again.
I also had another go at getting out the pockmarks.
I was much happier this time. I haven't got rid of the marks completely, as I wasn't brave enough with the sanding, but you really need to look now to find them.
Of course afterwards the devil is in the detail getting rid of all polishing compound from the bolt holes
The barrels just got a good clean and a quick buff (many hours) to remove any rubbish.
Hardware has now also all been procured, the bolts and washers are genuine BBS, the inserts and wheel nuts are american, but fit the wheels perfectly.
I did want a more racey looking open wheel nut, but these have extra threaded shanks so I can run the standard studs.
I've done this more so I can run a standard spare.
The centers should have the machining finished this week, and then they're off to paint!
I've also ordered tyres.
Going to 16" had opened up some more options, but still not as much as 17"
so Michelin Pilot Sport 4
205/55R16 fronts
225/50/R16 rears
Same staggered fitment as a 328 Ferrari, or a 944 Porsche.
Should give me the same look as the Computervision Rally Vitesse with ~630mm tyre diameter.
Now I just need everything to come together!
Joe
NNH said:
Will you make it to the Radwood show at Bicester in September? Most of the Radwoods are in the USA, but the UK one looks great and it looks like your SD1 is its background photo!
https://www.radwood.com/schedule
I really enjoyed their UK debut last year, so it'll definitely be in my calendar! https://www.radwood.com/schedule
https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjA3J3C
skeeterm5 said:
You could always fit a Rocketbunny kit to deal with the wheels, that would be something!
haha! there's a few period modified SD1's with wide arches. I think with the right vision it could look really cool. But for mine I think it would be sacrilege to cut into the original arches & I'm hoping my maths is good enough so it fits!
KelvinatorNZ said:
Man I can't wait to see this setup done. Should look amazing!
It's been a long time coming but I'm really hoping it's going to come out well! imck said:
Have spent the last few days reading this from start to finish.
Incredible attention to detail.
Grew up with them. I remember the 'Jam Sandwich' Police cars.
Colleague had a black one in the late 80s. I think it had gold wheels.
Thankyou Incredible attention to detail.
Grew up with them. I remember the 'Jam Sandwich' Police cars.
Colleague had a black one in the late 80s. I think it had gold wheels.
Glad you enjoyed, I spent my childhood around my dad's so it's a nostalgia trip for me too!
So good news and bad news...
Firstly my tyres of choice came back instock so I pulled the trigger.
Which I'm really happy with, should give a really cool look.
Bad news is my machinist is a little slow, and I've been let down by my painter...
So the chances of having the wheels finished for Bicester is a strong 0%.
So change of tactic, the machining work should be finished by the end of this week and then all my bits are off to Voodoo Motorsport to have the centres powder coated and everything assembled.
The Vitesse has also been tucked away for a good few months, so it was time to drag it out and give it a beginning of the year go through.
Like most old cars the Vitesse is a little incontinent. The little bit of gearbox oil, and a tickle that is coming from the oil pump/filter head.
Just a little oily dirt, and what usually results in a drip onto the anti-roll bar.
The pump cover looks good, gears looked good, and I hoped a new genuine Land Rover Gasket would do the job.
I also re-surfaced all the copper washers incase they were also to blame.
All together beautifully clean, packed with vasoline and properly primed before starting with fresh Valvoline and new Mann filter.
Nothing like a fresh oil service and hopefully an improvement.
Of course I then gave it a little run out got it nice and hot, and a nice oil sweating already around the oil filter so that didn't work!
But anyway, it got a really good wash yesterday along with a coat of ridiculously expensive wax to try and hide the terrible paint. All ready for the Sunday Scramble next weekend
Joe
A few days before Bicester I thought I'd go through and give it a good clean and a wax.
One thing I did notice was the foam buffer between the headlight and the sidelight was very loose! Lucky it hadn't departed while driving!
I did consider trying to re-stick it with everything in place, but my dad convinced me it was worth doing properly.
So out came the sidelight.
Bit of clean up as well, couldn't put it back without cleaning everything up could I. Always a positive surpise when you remove something and it's lovely and clean underneath.
& back together.
The drive down to Bicester was easy and uneventful, bit of rain on the way down, but the car self dried nicely!
and it was fun driving into the main gate...
Parked up on the local heroes lawn!
I didn't stick around the car too much, as there's so much to see, but loved chatting with people when I did!
I do always love the Scramble events, I'm still going through all the pics and videos I took!
Next was the PistonHeads Sunday Service @ The Motorist!
It's a good 90 miles from me, but worth a drive up!
I'd have liked to get there a little earlier, as when I got there around 10:30 it was busy!!!
Definitely got a few smiles as I was driving in, which made me very happy
I even had a few people come and chat when I parked up, which of course I loved!
Was fun to meet and chat with a few of you guys!
I was tarty enough to move it to a closer spot later though...
Joe
One thing I did notice was the foam buffer between the headlight and the sidelight was very loose! Lucky it hadn't departed while driving!
I did consider trying to re-stick it with everything in place, but my dad convinced me it was worth doing properly.
So out came the sidelight.
Bit of clean up as well, couldn't put it back without cleaning everything up could I. Always a positive surpise when you remove something and it's lovely and clean underneath.
& back together.
The drive down to Bicester was easy and uneventful, bit of rain on the way down, but the car self dried nicely!
and it was fun driving into the main gate...
Parked up on the local heroes lawn!
I didn't stick around the car too much, as there's so much to see, but loved chatting with people when I did!
I do always love the Scramble events, I'm still going through all the pics and videos I took!
Next was the PistonHeads Sunday Service @ The Motorist!
It's a good 90 miles from me, but worth a drive up!
I'd have liked to get there a little earlier, as when I got there around 10:30 it was busy!!!
Definitely got a few smiles as I was driving in, which made me very happy
I even had a few people come and chat when I parked up, which of course I loved!
Was fun to meet and chat with a few of you guys!
I was tarty enough to move it to a closer spot later though...
Joe
Mallard126 said:
I was the one who barely let you get out of the car before accosting you on Sunday. Loved seeing it in the flesh (and hearing that sumptuous V8!).
Ahh brilliant to put a face to a name. Really glad you enjoyed it. Like when we were talking it does come across very differently to the videos!
miniman said:
Don't worry, I accosted him whilst still in the car at the October Scramble
Haha I loved that. I do forget sometimes that people actually read my ramblings so to meet you guys in the flesh is so much fun!
So on Friday I drove down to Voodoo Motorsport with a very full car!
Very much looking forward to seeing the progress, and obviously can't wait to see the wheels finally finished!
The plan is to have them done for Players...
I've also been putting off writing about this as I still don't know if it's going to happen but the plan does now seem to be progressing.
So while I've been dreaming up these wheels, at the back of my mind the thought of how they're going to sit and more importantly how they're not going to rub has been niggling always at me.
One of the very few things I haven't touched on the Vitesse is the suspension.
My car has sadly lost it's self levelling Nivomat rear suspension for what I assume is some 90's rubbish with helper springs on the shocks.
Both the front and rear have very little damping left in it!
Now sadly Nivomats are long since NLA, and in my opinion the current offering of aftermarket replacements are rubbish...
Koni don't supply any more, the Spax apparently are really hard and the bilstein B4's are waaaay too soft, and I've never gotten on with GAZ for some reason. And all the shocks offered are too long so spring detachment is a given!
There's also only 3 options of spring (you have to change from the OEM nivomat springs as they're waay to soft for regular shocks)
Standard SD1 ride height (way too high), -30mm (Vitesse ride height
), and -60mm which is floor scraping low. (Thankyou Kelvinator for the pics and advice from your Black Vitesse!) So I've been putting this off since I got the car. Mine drives ok, it's a bit crashy (but not as bad as some cars with replacement shocks) and quite floaty but with the incoming much wider wheels I know I need to get the body under control.
The idea of having something made never occurred to me until a friend with an E30 M3 told me that converting McPherson struts to coil overs was a standard approach with BMW's...
The idea of being able to run at -40mm (just a tickle lower than Standard ride height, but still being able to get over speed bumps was very appealing.
So I initially approached KW after driving his cars, the ride was sublime! They were interested but they would have required the car in Germany, or a lot of drawings and measurements...
I also then approached Bilstein at the classic Motorshow last November after reading an article on exactly what I was after again on an E30.
https://workshop.bilstein.com/en/bring-your-e30-up...
They had exactly what I was after on display too!
They said it would be something they could be interested in, and that I should contact and visit their technical center, which is in Leicester!
Bingo we have a winner. ( I'm midlands based so made the discussion much easier)
Because I'm mad I figured you wouldn't want to convert gross old struts...
So almost immediately after getting home I'd already bought a brand new old stock pair of front struts.
Bit premature I know!
A few weeks later I had a phone consultation with the shop manager, and the next week I took what I had and popped in for a chat.
The plan is using the original Group A TWR drawings (yes they still have those) as a base, but closer to original Vitesse ride height, and with much more road car settings, to have coil-over fronts and a divorced coil-over rear with adjustable spring perches and custom shocks.
I've visited a few times over the last few months, they've measured my standard springs and bump stops at the rear to get a baseline, and I've measured the spring ratio (1:1 as they're directly above the solid axle) along with shock & spring movements from full droop to full compression to work out shock lengths.
And after a call a few days ago I might have shocks to test fit next week!
It's not been a fast process as you might be able to tell, but I'm hoping it all comes together.
Joe
Bobberoo said:
That sounds amazing, really glad Bilstien were able to help, although I'm surprised that you think the B4's would be too soft!!
I run B4'S and Eibach springs on my Focus estate and while it is far stiffer than standard it's not bone shaking or jarring and by Christ it goes round corners well!!!
It's more those specific B4s aren't very good. I had B4s on my A3 so no complaints about them, It's more because they're based on the SD1s with conventional shocks, which weren't let's say performance orientated! We looked at the drawings when I was at Bilstein and they are very soft!I run B4'S and Eibach springs on my Focus estate and while it is far stiffer than standard it's not bone shaking or jarring and by Christ it goes round corners well!!!
Joe
Slippydiff said:
David Price Racing did one in the early 80’s. Car and Car Conversions couldn’t get enough of it :
http://retro-motoring.com/magazines/ccc/1981/05/ma...
Fantastic car OP. I think I saw it the last Bicester Scramble a few weeks ago ? Looks stunning
Very interesting read that, there was some chatter a few months ago about that car with someone after it. I think the general consensus is it didn't survive! http://retro-motoring.com/magazines/ccc/1981/05/ma...
Fantastic car OP. I think I saw it the last Bicester Scramble a few weeks ago ? Looks stunning
It's definitely a strong look, but for me the standard body Group A touring car style is the pinnacle!
Yes that would have been me, cheers I appreciate that.
I didn't take a massive amount of pics, but I do like this one
Joe
Slippydiff said:
Thought so !! A real eye-catcher, especially in that colour
Cheers KelvinatorNZ said:
Big difference between the nice flowing arches of a good widebody like that, and the tacked on rocket bunny junk.
I actually have that magazine. My wife found it in a bookshop in the UK and brought it back to NZ for me.
Im eagerly looking forward to how your suspension turns out. You are right about the current options; they're OK at best, and junk at worst.
Completely agree, although I would never be brave enough to do that to my own car though! I actually have that magazine. My wife found it in a bookshop in the UK and brought it back to NZ for me.
Im eagerly looking forward to how your suspension turns out. You are right about the current options; they're OK at best, and junk at worst.
You and me both!
I had another call with Bilstein today (I call every few days recently) I'm being teased with apparently things being imminently ready... Oh and speaking of things being ready I had a chat with Voodoo and my wheels should be ready in the next week, just in time for Players Classic...
A years worth of planning all coming down to the last week!
I'm hoping everything will definitely be in place for the Pistonheads 25th Anniversary event, I've been accepted into the Readers Rides Display.
Can't wait for that!!! 
So while I've been waiting for my plans to come to fruition I did quite last minute decide I couldn't miss the RetroRides Weekender. It's always an amazing show, and has by far the best atmosphere of any show I've been too.
I'd been having a little strop and unlike the last 2 years I didn't fit into any of the show categories, and I then missed the full weekend tickets!
But a last minute hotel and day tickets worked just as well.
Usual last minute night before wash.
The 5am start is always a bit painful, but when you arrive to gorgeous weather and retro cars everywhere it's worth it.
Vitesse behaved perfectly on the 180mile trip down such a good cruiser.
I was having a lovely chilled day watching and looking at cars, until a friend mentions that unfortunately due to a mechanical issue on his car, he won't be able to do his booked track session, and would I like to take his spot on the early afternoon sprint session...
Now I've never been brave enough to book anything like this, but when it's dangled in-front of you so easily...
All to quickly I'm in the queue to to be sound tested, then signing in, hiring a helmet, and sitting in the drivers briefing!
Sound check @ 95dB so officially to loud to run as a road car on the Sunday (limit 93dB
) but fine to run on track on Saturday (105dB limit) 
What am I doing...
It was basically a quick blast the wrong way up the track, back around on yourself, then back down the track, round the final chicane and down the main straight. There was then another cone chicane on the main pit straight, then up the first corner, back on yourself, back through the cone chicane and into the pit exit to finish.
My lovely girlfriend did a great job of doing some panning shots, she didn't fancy the passenger ride!
3 runs later my session was finished!
I really did baby it, no crazy smoky starts as I'm terrified of the diff, and nothing crazy in the corners as I don't have my suspension yet! But I did give it the beans down the straight.
I really wasn't pushing but I'm still so proud of how it did. No temperature issues at all, brakes didn't fade, and no oil burnt!
Very happy.
I then parked up with my friends slightly wounded SD1, and enjoyed the rest of the show absolutely buzzing at what I'd just done, and mainly the fact I hadn't broken anything!
I've done a few trackdays but never in my own car, so definitely a first for me.
I'm not even sure who took this photo as I'm in the background putting something in the boot!
Joe
Like all projects with distant deadlines they always push right to the limit!
I had really wanted a refreshed suspension in time for one of the big shows of the year, Players Classic. (which was this weekend)
Last Wednesday I finally had a call that at least the rear shocks were ready! (spring perches and fronts still pending sadly)
Of course I had to see of they'd fit, so heading over that evening.
The exsisting shocks on the car came off easily and weren't as bad as I thought they were, definitely very soft with little return but not completely knackered.
They're old Koni Reds with the helper springs, (someone said they were for towing... ) so pretty good actually.
But the new Bilstein's... They're based off B6's with custom tubes so I could spec everything.
The damping specs are a compromise from the B4's they have on spec for 2000 non nivomat cars, which are ridiculously soft, and the Group A shocks, which are silly hard. They also have a shorter open length to keep the axle more located, although I could still go shorter.
We discussed doing adjustable, but in the end just agreed that they could be done properly from the start.
In preparation of these lovely new parts I spent a day stripping and repainting the rear axle, which was looking a little crusty.
The drums also got a little attention, as they also were looking a little rusty!
mmmm that view makes me happy. I of course also fitted new spring retaining clips, although they really are rubbish!
So as part of the longer plan I'd bought some -60mm Rimmer Springs so I could adjust the ride height back to roughly Vitesse (-30mm) with the still pending spring perches.
The springs on the car are a little crusty, but definitely red...
I was always told that Red was -60mm, and yellow was -30mm, so maybe I've got older -60mm springs on it already...
Just for the hell of it I chucked the new springs on, and it doesn't look any lower to me.
Honestly can't tell how high it's suppose to be now!
Joe
I had really wanted a refreshed suspension in time for one of the big shows of the year, Players Classic. (which was this weekend)
Last Wednesday I finally had a call that at least the rear shocks were ready! (spring perches and fronts still pending sadly)
Of course I had to see of they'd fit, so heading over that evening.
The exsisting shocks on the car came off easily and weren't as bad as I thought they were, definitely very soft with little return but not completely knackered.
They're old Koni Reds with the helper springs, (someone said they were for towing... ) so pretty good actually.
But the new Bilstein's... They're based off B6's with custom tubes so I could spec everything.
The damping specs are a compromise from the B4's they have on spec for 2000 non nivomat cars, which are ridiculously soft, and the Group A shocks, which are silly hard. They also have a shorter open length to keep the axle more located, although I could still go shorter.
We discussed doing adjustable, but in the end just agreed that they could be done properly from the start.
In preparation of these lovely new parts I spent a day stripping and repainting the rear axle, which was looking a little crusty.
The drums also got a little attention, as they also were looking a little rusty!
mmmm that view makes me happy. I of course also fitted new spring retaining clips, although they really are rubbish!
So as part of the longer plan I'd bought some -60mm Rimmer Springs so I could adjust the ride height back to roughly Vitesse (-30mm) with the still pending spring perches.
The springs on the car are a little crusty, but definitely red...
I was always told that Red was -60mm, and yellow was -30mm, so maybe I've got older -60mm springs on it already...
Just for the hell of it I chucked the new springs on, and it doesn't look any lower to me.
Honestly can't tell how high it's suppose to be now!
Joe
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