Jaguar F-Pace Non Runner

[Escy]

I asked why they split the engine up, he said some parts where damaged from the fire. I did see some melted plastic in the head which I think probably the plastic oil breather part on the rocker cover.

I thought I had bought everything I needed to have a big weekend on the engine but it didn't go as planned.

I bought some motorsport assembly lube, it's like treacle.

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I put the new pistons on the rods. The coating on the skirts doesn't look up to much.

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I bought some new tools. Bore gauge, micro meters, and a digital torque wrench that can do angles.

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I spent Saturday cleaning up parts. I bought loads of cans of brake cleaner, I'm using a combination of that, compressed air, specially designed pipe cleaners for oilways and loads of rags. All going pretty well.

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I hit a snag with cleaning the engine block. It's got balance shafts in it, I was planning on leaving them in but the last guy used silicone on the piston oil squirters (he loves silicone) so I needed to get the shafts out to be able to clean up the silicone. Also, I'll be able to do a more thorough job of cleaning the block. It turns out you need a special tool to remove the balance shafts. I found no mention of this special tool in the workshop manual. Maybe it's me not being able to find stuff but I think it's total rubbish. There seems to be gaping holes in it. I was going to attempt to come up with a way of removing them without the tool but I then realised you can't align the crank and the balance shafts without the special tool anyway so I've had to order that. It arrived today. I thought I'd been sent the wrong thing, it comes in a huge metal case. I've spent about £500 on special tools that are specific to this engine so far.

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Edited by Escy on Tuesday 17th January 22:13

[Escy]

Yeah, I can sell the tools after I'm done with them to get some money back.

stevemcs said:

I’ve now got my email addressed sorted so if you need help with part numbers let me know.

Thanks, I think (hope) I'm all done for ordering parts. I ordered conrod bolts and mains bolts on Monday, the conrod bolts are on back order, I managed to find a dealer with stock in Carlisle and get them to send them to me.

[Escy]

Escy said:

I think (hope) I'm all done for ordering parts.

That was a daft thing to say...

I just had a go at removing the balance shafts with my new tool. The instructions say tighten up and a light tap with a hammer. I watched a video of a Chinese mechanic do it, all he needed to do was tighten them together and the gear popped off the shaft, no hammer. I got one side off, it needed a clout so hard the shaft flew out of the engine. Onto the other balance shaft, give it a clout and the lip from the flange that the tool fits into breaks off and the rest of it get's pushed in. Hammering is no longer an option. Why's nothing straight forward?

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Edited by Escy on Wednesday 18th January 00:25

[Escy]

QBee said:

Loving the shots of your interestingly textured workshop floor - it speaks volumes about work done in there, past and present.
You deserve some better luck going forwards.

I have just invested an hour or two of my time reading the entire thread, and while I cannot say I understand most of it, it is well illustrated, well written, and it's a pleasure to read the work of someone who can actually spell, for a change.

Thank you. I can't take the credit for the spelling, there's a spell check built into Google Chrome, I got a D for GCSE English.

The garage badly needs a lick of paint but I'm too busy messing with cars to find the time.

mat205125 said:

MDifficult said:

I’m really starting to worry that we’re all just acting as enablers for your own personal brand of automotive masochism.

Really not sure if watching/encouraging is the right thing to do at this point… but I just can’t look away.

May the car gods have mercy on your soul.

Kinda thinking the same thing.

I've past the point of fascinated bystander admiring the hard work and ingenuity, to questioning whether we're crossing over into a voyeuristic snuff movie type fetish

I need the drama in my life

RicksAlfas said:

Is this part of the engine, or part of the tool?

It's the bearing support that the balance shaft sits into so part of the engine. It was very brittle. It only cost £18 for a replacement so I'm thinking cheaply made out of poor quality metal. I'm starting to think that could be the JLR mission statement.

CarlosSainz100 said:

If I've learnt nothing else from this thread, it's to never, ever, ever, ever *ever* buy a car with an Ingenium engine in it.

Good luck with it all!

I can't argue with you on that.

JESTER_ST1 said:

I think a whip round is required for the guy, this is some shift you are putting into correcting this!

It's a lot of work but I knew it when I bought it. I think I'm in a great place on it still. It owes me £10,590 as it stands, that's with every part I know I need bought. I can probably get £350 back for the special tools I bought. I still need an MOT, some cheap engine oil and a filter for the first start and the A/C gassing when it's up and running. It's still going to work out a very cheap F-Pace and a worthwhile endeavour (providing I get the engine right and there are no other major issues on the car). I was hoping I'd have it fixed for under 10k but the engine ended up being pretty much the worst case scenario, only the block is retained and even that needed honing.

[Escy]

I really appreciate you (and everyone else) donating with the Boxster. That was huge, it changed my mindset and gave me something to aim for when I was probably going to end up sitting around and get depressed. I felt like I was finished with cars when that happened.

This is different though, I'm glad people are enjoying reading the thread. I've willingly bought a broken car, I do it all the time. I'm only sharing the numbers on it as I think it makes it makes the thread more interesting. There's a bit of a balancing act, fix it without spending a fortune on it.

[Escy]

TonyRPH said:

One gets the impression these engines are simply not intended to be repaired to this extent.

Yeah, I think you're right. That might be why it's not in the service manual. There was a known issue with the balance shaft bearings, apparently some shafts weren't hardened properly. I've read about cars with 7k miles getting a replacement engine. The dealers don't seem to want to touch them.

[Escy]

hxc_ said:

Enjoying this thread immensely - though like others, have been entirely put off any JLR products! (perhaps irrational but christ).

One does feel there is a little bit of man maths at play as far as labour is concerned on your costs mind...!

Yeah, I'm not counting my time in the costings. Working on cars is supposed to be an enjoyable past time. It's not feeling that way tonight though.

Trying to get the remaining balance shaft off. First up, I broke the special tool I just paid £225 for. The thread on the end snapped off.

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Plan B is bell housing bolt threaded into the end of the of balance shaft, some wood inside the block to press agaisnt the gear and hammer it with a sledge hammer. I got through a 3 bell housing bolts, bending them and mashing them up. It didn't budge.

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Eventually the wood slipped out and the gear got smashed into the block and took a load of teeth off. So that's another part I'll need to buy.

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I tried my hydraulic press but I couldn't get it to sit nice and apply much pressure. My nerve went at about 2 tons, worried it'd slip and damage the block.

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I also tried heating up the gear before hammering it. I think that leaves cutting the balance shaft in half as my last resort. I'll be adding the shaft onto my parts list along with the gear and the bell housing bolts I mashed. I've had more productive nights.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 19th January 08:10

[Escy]

I've still got the faith that once I'm past this hurdle it's all going to come together really quickly.

Here is the video of the Chinese mechanic releasing the gear I'm stuck on (I tried to make it start at the right point but it's not working, it's 3.30 seconds in). I don't know why mine is putting up such a fight.

Pflanzgarten said:

If it’s so difficult to remove, how are you going to get them back in?

They'll go back together easily, the end of the shaft is tapered and the bolt in the end locks it together. I just can't seem to pop it off. Hopefully I can get the parts I need by tomorrow otherwise it's another lost weekend.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 19th January 08:19

Edited by Escy on Thursday 19th January 08:20

Edited by Escy on Thursday 19th January 08:22

[Escy]

QBee said:

Do you know anyone who could extract that annoying item for you?

Spoke to a local specialist about these enginesva week ago, they said we don't work on Jaguars, only Land Rover. I was only wondering if they had any parts knocking about they'd sell, didn't even get to ask the question. I've filed them away as useless.

I can make a proper tool to help hold the gear but it's past the point now it's all damaged. Just going to cut it out.

HughG said:

As its tapered don't you want to heat the block not the shaft?

It's not stuck in the block, moves around freely, it's the gear stuck to the balance shaft I'm struggling with. I was trying to heat up the gear itself to expand it. I was having trouble with my blow torch with it being so cold.

I rang JLR, they can get the shaft but the gear is on backorder so I've bought second hand. Crossing my fingers it arrives tomorrow otherwise it's another lost weekend.

[Escy]

CarlosSainz100 said:

Christ, that Chinese mechanic gets it off with nothing but a pair of pliers (it won't be a pair of pliers but I am a mechanical imbecile).
Or maybe he's just super strong.....

Yeah, and that engine looked well used. I guess it's just luck of the draw. The one that I did manage to get apart needed an absolute beasting.

[Escy]

nevermind111 said:

No mech knowledge but this kind of stuff is always fascinating for the story, and it wouldn't be a story without the twists and turns (sorry OP).

As an aside you know there's loads of Youtube channels that do what you're doing as a business: "I bought this Range Rover that someone found in a swamp, now let's rebuild it and try to sell it on."

Whether the car works out or not is irrelevant, because the 'views' are paying for it. Seeing the popularity of this thread, and your tolerance for pain, it's probably worth thinking about!

I watch some of those channels. I've got a YouTube channel.

I should make a bit more effort with it but it's never going to get anywhere realistically. I'm not comfortable talking to the camera, I don't like my voice and it's just not me to put in the cheerful happy guy YouTube persona, I'm more like Eeyore.

The nail in the coffin is, the effort and time it takes to edit a video and it'll get a thousand views if I'm lucky. I've put together a 15 second TikTok that's got 270k views. Thought what's the point after that.

Moderator edit: no social media links please

[Escy]

tvrfan007 said:

Sometimes the 'knack' you pick up from someone else makes you realise you can overthink things too, or there are better ways than the book and the tool.

Driveshafts on old r8 rovers rusted into the splines. If you tried to take it apart or even worse took it off the car in the hub without breaking that rust bond forget it, you could beat the shaft as much as you liked and it would just mushroom and you then couldn't take it apart. Crack the Driveshaft nuts just a quarter turn and then drive down your street turning the steering left and right... CLUNK... CLUNK. Slips out now... Doesn't say that in the Haynes manual...

Keep at is escy, there are often other perspectives for a sticky situation offered in here. Have my fingers
Crossed for a fortunate conclusion but I'd be at my wits end here!

Yeah, there are often easier ways around stuff. In hindsight I'd have made a tool to sit nicely behind the gear rather than go with blocks of wood (they'd be absorbing some of the impact force). I had time on Sunday to make something but since I'd already bought the correct tool that would arrive in a few days time I figured it was a waste of my time. Fast forward the 2 days and I'm in the garage at 10.30 at night. When the special tool doesn't do it, it's too much effort, it's too late, I'm too tired to fabricate something. I need a solution one way or the other, it's either coming off or I'm breaking stuff trying as I need to get any parts ordered in time for the following weekend otherwise I'm getting nowhere.

Easternlight said:

"It's not stuck in the block, moves around freely, it's the gear stuck to the balance shaft I'm struggling with. I was trying to heat up the gear itself to expand it. I was having trouble with my blow torch with it being so cold."

It's no use heating a gear and a shaft when they are together like this as the heat just spreads into the shaft and they expand by the same amount (unless different materials).

Yeah, I know. It was a half hearted effort on my part, more out of frustration than expectation. The bearing races on the balance shafts are plastic (did JLR design this engine to fail?), too much heat and I'd be buying parts anyway. Sometimes I find just heating something up can do the trick if the 2 parts cool at different rates.

Darkslider said:

I've encountered this a few times, i normally give the part I want to expand a blast with the oxyacetylene (a blowtorch does naff all) and then quickly give the part I want to shrink a good dose with plumbers freezing spray, has never failed me yet.

If you're only a hobby mechanic and don't want a big bottle trolley in your garage then invest in a little oxy propane set, they're available in little MAP torches which I've never tried myself but know a few people who have got on well with them.

Yeah, I should look into it, I used to use the little kit in work for soldering. Oxyacetylene always seems to do the trick.

The previous owner told me he'd removed the balance shafts, he also told me he didn't have the special tools. I've got a theory, they came out easily for him just like they did on that Chinese YouTube link I posted. When he put it back together he went full Tonto with an impact gun which is why I can't get them apart now. I've got all day tomorrow in the garage and I've got a reciprocating saw shaped plan to deal this shaft. Hopefully my replacement shaft arrives tomorrow also and I can start getting this engine back together.

[Escy]

The JLR parts supply side of their business hasn't been a great experience. So far I've dealt with 4 dealers.

My closest is Cardiff. Generally helpful, spoken to 2 guys, one older who's good, the younger one, new to the job who's a bit of a dimwit. I wanted conrod bolts, they were on back order, young guy basically said I can't help you and was reluctant to give me the part numbers. I rang the Newport dealer, my next closest, he confirms they aren't available but tells me there are 2 dealers showing stock and gave me their details, that was good service.

I ring those dealers Sytner Knutsford where I spoke to someone that seemed nice enough up until the point I asked for him to post them to me, he clearly couldn't be arsed (Cardiff won't post either) and was fobbing me off. Best he'd offer was sending to my closet Sytner dealer which was a BMW dealer. I called them and I sounded like an idiot trying to order JLR parts from BMW. They said ring back and speak to the manager.

I called Lloyds of Carlisle the other dealer showing stock (only 7 unfortunately), they said no problem, I ordered some other parts and they put it all together and sent it out I got them the next day. A good dealer.

So I've been around the houses for some bolts that shouldn't be difficult to get (considering how poor these engines are you should get some conrod bolts in the owners manual). What should of happened in my opinion is Cardiff say, we don't have stock, it's on back order but there is stock at other dealerships, taken payment and then sorted out the delivery from them directly to me. It's not hard, if you can be arsed.

Went to Cardiff again this morning to collect the balance shaft flange that had been broken. Unfortunately the dimwit took that order and he ordered me a bearing off a different pulley. I don't know how he managed that, I gave him the part number taken from my broken flange. I guess it's lucky that Newport had one in stock so the weekend isn't ruined but I've wasted hours driving around.

I finally picked up the part, it was actually £12. I think this is part of the problem, material quality doesn't seem to be there, everything seems as light and flimsy as they can get away with. They can't be paying the supplier much for it, a couple of quid? This is a part that the special tool fits into and it's supposed to take the force of a hammer blow (possibly not the sledge I brought to the party )

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My plan was to cut the balance shaft in half, I bought a decent blade for the job. It was expensive but I find Milwaukee is always worth the money.

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I wrapped the engine up to try and reduce the mess I'm about to make. The perspective is a bit weird but I'd got a torch hanging off the side of a chain.

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You can see cutting this out isn't a walk in the park. Not much space, plus I needed to stop the shaft moving whilst I cut.

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I cut through it, that blade was good.

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Finally out. It's a fail that I needed to destroy it to get it out but it feels like a win that it's out and I can finally move on.

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Edited by Escy on Friday 20th January 13:03

Edited by Escy on Friday 20th January 13:04

[Escy]

stevemcs said:

JLR do seem to have some stuff on back order - but they VOR some parts and even though they are on back order they arrive the next day. DPF sensors being the common ones for back order.

I can always check with our local dealer if you get stuck, I'm happy to post.

I didn't know that, I assumed back order means waiting weeks. Thanks for the offer, since I've found a dealer that's willing to post, I'll stick with them.

MDifficult said:

Go on, you can tell us.... exactly how hard did you give that thing the finger and shout 'Take that, you f*cking f*ck' once it finally came out?

Or is that just me that does stuff like that?

I might have!


Cleaning up the block, this has taken ages. The casting on the block is really rough so it's hard to get out all the bits of metal.

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This is the idler pulley from the balance shaft set-up. It looked alright in the block but it has an open bearing, gave it a blast with carb cleaner and all this metal came out. That's a good example of why I had to go to the effort of getting the balance shafts out. I'll replace this bearing (a mistake from me to not notice this before I went to the dealer this morning).

IMG_20230120_182232481 by Thomas Prosser, on Flickr


Another mistake was I ordered the wrong balance shaft, I did it while I was at work and was rushing, got the wrong side. The shafts are the same but the gears aren't. I've ordered the correct one now, it'll be Tuesday before I get it. It's not the end of the world, the balance shafts can be fitted later on, I can still get the engine back together, they are independent of the chain set-up. I'll just need to leave the sump off. If I can get it to the point where that's all I'm waiting on before it goes in, I'll be happy.

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[Escy]

I've been having a proper look at this replacement crank I bought and I'm not happy. It's got a fairly deep scratch, I can feel it with my nail. Also, there is a divot taken out of the side that's got a high spot.

if I'd known I wouldn't have bought this crank. I've posted pictures up with the scratch (I didn't mention the divot), the general consensus was make sure there are no high spots and it'll be fine, it'll just fill with oil. I'm not happy about it, I could return it but that puts the brakes on everything.

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[Escy]

B'stard Child said:

The points highlighted with arrows below - are they removable?

Good call. I noticed them while I was cleaning the engine and I knew what they were for. I can't tell you why I haven't taken them out yet but I haven't so thanks for pointing them out. I won't lie and pretend I've already done it as after the way the balance shafts went, I'm expecting I'll remove one and the block will split in half.

MDMA . said:

Bit late now, but did you not spot this when you bought it? Sure it’s not been damaged by the rods thrown in the same box (few pages ago)? Admire the lengths you’re going to, and don’t take this the wrong way, but your work area, parts all over the floor etc don’t seem the best way to go about an engine rebuild.
My friend who builds engines has a separate engine room to his garage area and they are like chalk and cheese. The engine prep area is clinically clean, for obvious reasons.
Good luck with it all. Hope it works out in the end.

I didn't spot it, I'm space limited so I've not got all the parts laid out nicely like I'd want. I just had a quick look in the box. It's not too late to do something about it, I bought it on ebay so I could send it back and sort something else out but I think that's probably more hassle than it's worth, at this point. It was shipped wrapped in rags and the rods were in the same box not particularly well wrapped up. It could have been damaged during shipping but there are no high spots where the marks are, so I think this is old damage which he's dressed up. I could be wrong on that. He's saying it wasn't damaged.

I know my work area isn't the best for building an engine, I just need to do the best I can with what I've got. I do all the cleaning outside so I'm not blowing metal around the garage.

I-am-the-reverend said:

Strip the block and get it chemically cleaned - get the oil gallery plugs out as well.

That crank needs work - at the very least it needs a polish but it'll need a grind to get the mark out. It looks like a main bearing which isn't as bad as a big end. A polish will improve it enough.

It's the big end bearing.

Some good news, I messaged the seller of the tool I broke, just said I broke it, nothing more. They replied no problem, they'll send a replacement and it came 2 days later. I was expecting them to say I abused it (which I did) and wasn't going to argue the toss over it. I'll use them again. Thought it was worth sharing - https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/toolfocus

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[Escy]

It's not supposed to be removed, the instructions show it in place. The idea is the tool fits into that flange so when you pop the shaft off, the gear is held in place against the block. That means you can take the shafts out with the sump still on.

[Escy]

This crankshaft feels like a real kick in the nuts, it was the main piece that I based re-building this engine on. If I could find a reasonable price crank I'd commit to the re-build. I thought I had but I don't want to run it like it is, it might be fine but I don't want to take the chance.

I feel like the seller is taking liberties selling it like this (I'm convinced this is old damage he's polished up). He had it listed the condition as re-furbished on ebay, I questioned it and he just said he'd polished the journals, seemed a bit odd at the time. I'd never have bought it if I'd be shown pictures. I paid £600 for it.

My options going forward.
1. Buy an aftermarket crank (£500). I'd prefer OEM, but if it measures up fine? They must find their way into loads of these re-bullt engines.
2. Buy another used crank, sellers are wanting £800+. More than I want to spend on a crank.
3. Take this new crank to the machine shop and get it re-ground. It let's the seller get away with taking the piss and probably costs me around £200 which means I'd spent £800 and end up with a re-ground crank.
4. Take my original crank to the machine shop and get that re-ground to take the oversize Renault bearings they told me about.

I'm not sure yet, the easiest option is aftermarket, I'd get it in a couple of days and the engine can go back together. The cheapest option is Renault bearings on my original crank, I'm not sure if that is preferable to an aftermarket crank?!

[Escy]

Batch 7.5R said:

Tom this thing is determined to kick you right in the spuds at every turn - good on you for persevering and in spite of all the red flags, I still want an F-Pace! Although would be V6-flavoured of some sort.

Keep it going, if I can assist in any way down in Sussex then give me a shout. Legend.

Thank you. You don't happen to have a 204dtd engine sat in the corner of your garage do you?

paradigital said:

Gtom said:

If you have your own crank re done with the Renault parts where is the issue if everything is the right size?

Surely it’s only the same as a rebore and oversized pistons?

So long as all the tolerances are correct you should be fine?

I would be getting my money back on the crank and going down that road.

Same. I’d rather have a known quantity in your own crank resurfaced to fit different bearings than to try and use a clearly damaged (and not cheap) crank.

It sounds like the Renault bearings route will save you money overall also, which ultimately was the aim of the game.

Yeah, it should be fine. What put me off was they way they sold the idea to me, they definately weren't recommending it. They thought I was fixing it to sell, I said I'm keeping it and they pulled a bit of a face. I'm put off because it's outside the manufacturers specs, I figure there is a reason they only offer certain size shells. From memory, they go to 0.5mm and the Renault shell is 0.7mm. I got the feeling they'd go with this option over the aftermarket crank. They said they've seen some poor ones.

I'm going to be in for a war returning this new crankshaft, he's saying I've damaged it myself. It's been polished since those marks were made. There's no way I've done it. Ebay typically sides with the buyer so I should be fine but it's hassle I don't need.

[Escy]

Thanks for sharing the advert. It's a good price but you'd have to assume the crank is in the same shape as mine.

I was looking for engines that have failed timing chains.