Honda Civic FN2 Type R
Discussion
I figured I've been on PH for a while and never done one of these.
I have a history of mostly BMW's and Honda's. My last BMW was a E39 530i Sport manual in Topaz Blue. This is going to be a very unpopular sentence........I sold it because my wife had just bought a Vauxhall insignia Grand Sport. The Insignia was unfortunately a better car than the E39 in doing the boring things. The seats were better, connectivity was better, tech., comfort etc. were better. As a daily car, it unfortunately made the E39 redundant.
The E39 of course was better as drivers car, better engine, better handling and sounded fantastic. Looks wise, I actually thought the Insignia was better looking.
None of this should be a suprise of course. I'm comparing a car designed in the mid 90s with a car manufacturerd in 2020. I felt my opinions of the two cars interesting as I've always loved E39s and still think they're great cars.
Now I'm down to one car and sharing it with the wife. The E39 has gone as we didn't need two four door saloons. I am fortunate that I can walk to work, so for 18 months I did just that.
Then, as usual, the itch kicked in. I'm a huge petrolhead and just couldn't be without a car. As I mentioned earlier I've also had various Honda's. Cars like the EP3 Civic Type R, Prelude 2.2 VTEC and some more mundane Accord's (although one was a Type S....).
I have some fantastic memories in my EP3 Type R so felt as though the natural progression would be to try a FN2 - despite the poor reviews.
I found a very tidy Nighthawk Black FN2 for sale and the deal was done. Basic data:
+ Weight = 1280 kgs (with approximately 5 litres of fuel, no driver and no weight reduction modifications)
+ Power = 207 bhp @ 8050 RPM and 146 lb-ft @ 7900 RPM - about normal for FN2
+ 0 - 60 = 6.6 seconds
Previous experiences with Honda focused on tuning the engine, loud exhaust etc. This time, I decided to leave the engine alone - no tuning at all. Why? I've typically found that tuning Honda engines can remove the 'Honda feel.' Remaps typically move the VTEC lower down the rev. range to approximately 4000 RPM for more midrange power. Personal opinion here but if I wanted that, I'd have bought a FK2 Type R, or Focus ST etc. I really like that the VTEC comes in around 5400 RPM; it makes it a bit more fun when you finally find an open road and get the revs. that high. It feels more special, feels more 'Honda.'
After driving the FN2 standard for a few months I felt as though it's fast enough standard and sounded pretty nice too. Honda worked on exhaust and intake sound; improving on the EP3.
I decided that I wanted to focus on reducing rotational and unsprung mass - making the most of the power it has - without removing refinement.
First thing up was suspension. Often criticised for the rear beam setup; I actually think it's good and don't really notice any difference from the IRS setup of the EP3. It's not as tail happy as the EP3, but I haven't bought a FWD hatch for oversteer fun.
The suspension was completely refreshed with genuine Honda parts and Eibach springs. Everything that was removed was replaced. The Eibach springs reduced the crashy feel of the standard springs and new shocks, rubber mounts, hardware etc. all helped too. The car rode noticeably better after the suspension work.
Next up were the wheels. As mentioned my plan is to reduce rotational mass. I opted for 17" OZ Racing wheels, saving approximately 3.5 kgs per wheel.
The car rode better again on 17s and also looked good. With those mods. done my attention focused on the brakes. As standard they're not great. Taking the opportunity to further reduce rotational mass, I stumbled upon genuine Spoon calipers. These weigh 2.5 - 3.0 kgs less than standard calipers. I had custom two-piece front discs made to standard dimensions. The discs saved approximately 2.2 kgs each over standard single piece discs.
Weight saving so far -
Front axle total = 16.4 kgs
Front wheel = 3.5 kgs
Front disc = 2.2 kgs
Caliper = 2.5 kgs (minimum)
Total = 8.2 kgs per corner
Rear axle total = 7.0 kgs
Rear wheel = 3.5 kgs
Total = 3.5 kgs per corner
Total across both axles = 19.9 kgs
Someone may have to double check my maths. I have a toddler who keeps waking up at sunrise.
That's how things sit for the moment. I have more mods. to come next year with the same focus on weight reduction whilst maintaining refinement (at least any that it has)!
Pre-modification stats:
Power = 207 bhp
Weight (including me and 3/4 of a tank of fuel) = 1395 kgs
Power to weight = 148 bhp per tonne
Post modification stats:
Power = still 207 bhp (suprise suprise)
Weight = 1375 kgs
Power to weight = 151 bhp per tonne
I've read various theories that reducing rotational mass and unsprung mass has a weight multiplier equivalent of sprung mass. I can't find any validated data to give a credible figure so I will stay with actual kgs reduced.
I have a history of mostly BMW's and Honda's. My last BMW was a E39 530i Sport manual in Topaz Blue. This is going to be a very unpopular sentence........I sold it because my wife had just bought a Vauxhall insignia Grand Sport. The Insignia was unfortunately a better car than the E39 in doing the boring things. The seats were better, connectivity was better, tech., comfort etc. were better. As a daily car, it unfortunately made the E39 redundant.
The E39 of course was better as drivers car, better engine, better handling and sounded fantastic. Looks wise, I actually thought the Insignia was better looking.
None of this should be a suprise of course. I'm comparing a car designed in the mid 90s with a car manufacturerd in 2020. I felt my opinions of the two cars interesting as I've always loved E39s and still think they're great cars.
Now I'm down to one car and sharing it with the wife. The E39 has gone as we didn't need two four door saloons. I am fortunate that I can walk to work, so for 18 months I did just that.
Then, as usual, the itch kicked in. I'm a huge petrolhead and just couldn't be without a car. As I mentioned earlier I've also had various Honda's. Cars like the EP3 Civic Type R, Prelude 2.2 VTEC and some more mundane Accord's (although one was a Type S....).
I have some fantastic memories in my EP3 Type R so felt as though the natural progression would be to try a FN2 - despite the poor reviews.
I found a very tidy Nighthawk Black FN2 for sale and the deal was done. Basic data:
+ Weight = 1280 kgs (with approximately 5 litres of fuel, no driver and no weight reduction modifications)
+ Power = 207 bhp @ 8050 RPM and 146 lb-ft @ 7900 RPM - about normal for FN2
+ 0 - 60 = 6.6 seconds
Previous experiences with Honda focused on tuning the engine, loud exhaust etc. This time, I decided to leave the engine alone - no tuning at all. Why? I've typically found that tuning Honda engines can remove the 'Honda feel.' Remaps typically move the VTEC lower down the rev. range to approximately 4000 RPM for more midrange power. Personal opinion here but if I wanted that, I'd have bought a FK2 Type R, or Focus ST etc. I really like that the VTEC comes in around 5400 RPM; it makes it a bit more fun when you finally find an open road and get the revs. that high. It feels more special, feels more 'Honda.'
After driving the FN2 standard for a few months I felt as though it's fast enough standard and sounded pretty nice too. Honda worked on exhaust and intake sound; improving on the EP3.
I decided that I wanted to focus on reducing rotational and unsprung mass - making the most of the power it has - without removing refinement.
First thing up was suspension. Often criticised for the rear beam setup; I actually think it's good and don't really notice any difference from the IRS setup of the EP3. It's not as tail happy as the EP3, but I haven't bought a FWD hatch for oversteer fun.
The suspension was completely refreshed with genuine Honda parts and Eibach springs. Everything that was removed was replaced. The Eibach springs reduced the crashy feel of the standard springs and new shocks, rubber mounts, hardware etc. all helped too. The car rode noticeably better after the suspension work.
Next up were the wheels. As mentioned my plan is to reduce rotational mass. I opted for 17" OZ Racing wheels, saving approximately 3.5 kgs per wheel.
The car rode better again on 17s and also looked good. With those mods. done my attention focused on the brakes. As standard they're not great. Taking the opportunity to further reduce rotational mass, I stumbled upon genuine Spoon calipers. These weigh 2.5 - 3.0 kgs less than standard calipers. I had custom two-piece front discs made to standard dimensions. The discs saved approximately 2.2 kgs each over standard single piece discs.
Weight saving so far -
Front axle total = 16.4 kgs
Front wheel = 3.5 kgs
Front disc = 2.2 kgs
Caliper = 2.5 kgs (minimum)
Total = 8.2 kgs per corner
Rear axle total = 7.0 kgs
Rear wheel = 3.5 kgs
Total = 3.5 kgs per corner
Total across both axles = 19.9 kgs
Someone may have to double check my maths. I have a toddler who keeps waking up at sunrise.
That's how things sit for the moment. I have more mods. to come next year with the same focus on weight reduction whilst maintaining refinement (at least any that it has)!
Pre-modification stats:
Power = 207 bhp
Weight (including me and 3/4 of a tank of fuel) = 1395 kgs
Power to weight = 148 bhp per tonne
Post modification stats:
Power = still 207 bhp (suprise suprise)
Weight = 1375 kgs
Power to weight = 151 bhp per tonne
I've read various theories that reducing rotational mass and unsprung mass has a weight multiplier equivalent of sprung mass. I can't find any validated data to give a credible figure so I will stay with actual kgs reduced.
Edited by StuE39 on Sunday 18th June 22:00
Thoroughly enjoying this already, I bought an FN2 last year and don't really think chasing power is where it's at. Certainly a few tweaks of the chassis will make a nice difference so it'll be nice to see what you do. Also don't really understand the whole rear suspension thing when you see the list of hot hatch 'legends' that have the same set up. Good all rounders these.
integraf40 said:
Thoroughly enjoying this already, I bought an FN2 last year and don't really think chasing power is where it's at. Certainly a few tweaks of the chassis will make a nice difference so it'll be nice to see what you do. Also don't really understand the whole rear suspension thing when you see the list of hot hatch 'legends' that have the same set up. Good all rounders these.
Completely agree. The rear beam was such a hot topic when this car was launched. Honda were accused of 'cheaping out,' on suspension. Yes, the rear beam isn't as complex as the IRS and therefore cheaper, however, this change gave the Civic a much bigger boot space. I personally feel that is more in the ethos of a hot hatch. A good all-rounder that can be thrown down back roads with half your house in the boot.Edited by StuE39 on Sunday 18th June 20:43
As I'm blessed with my height at 6'5 there is one design issue that affects me. Honda decided to put the fuel tank under the driver's seat to optimise boot capacity.
With this in mind, and continue saving weight without removing interior parts etc., I have got my eyes on Bride Eurostar II seats.
Standard FN2 seats weigh approximately 30 kgs as they also have side impact airbags fitted. The Bride seats should weigh in at 14 kgs - another decent weight saving.
The bigger benefit though is using the LowMax rails to drop the seat a couple of inches to give me much better headroom! I'm glad these didn't come with a sunroof!
With this in mind, and continue saving weight without removing interior parts etc., I have got my eyes on Bride Eurostar II seats.
Standard FN2 seats weigh approximately 30 kgs as they also have side impact airbags fitted. The Bride seats should weigh in at 14 kgs - another decent weight saving.
The bigger benefit though is using the LowMax rails to drop the seat a couple of inches to give me much better headroom! I'm glad these didn't come with a sunroof!
Edited by StuE39 on Wednesday 21st June 19:47
The Rotrex Kid said:
Watching with interest! Love those spoon calipers!
Thanks 
I had a full Brembo 'hybrid', BBK ready to fit. The kit consisted of: Mégane R26R calipers, Nissan 350Z discs, spigot rings, 10mm spacers and braided lines. I had the car booked in ready to fit the kit when I was suddenly offered the Spoon calipers.
Of course, I couldn't turn down Spoon. The Brembo kit was sold at a loss and I bought custom two-piece discs and different braided lines.
What I liked about the Spoon setup is that it doesn't require spigot rings for the discs as they use standard FN2 size discs and therefore hubs. Spacers aren't needed either to clear the calipers with my OZ wheels. It felt like a better engineered setup and of course the Spoon calipers are designed for the FN2.
The 350Z discs also were much bigger and heavier than the standard FN2 discs at approximately 10 kgs per disc. With my goal to reduce rotational mass I had concerns about fitting this kit before the Spoon calipers were even on my radar.
d_a_n1979 said:
A great car Stu and certainly a different angle of attack from the E39 
Can highly recommend my pal Ste at Grinspeed up this way if you ever need the car fettling etc
Looking forward to see what else you get up to with the FN
Thanks Dan. Can highly recommend my pal Ste at Grinspeed up this way if you ever need the car fettling etc
Looking forward to see what else you get up to with the FN
The E39 really was a great car and being a manual sport 530i was a pretty rare car. I do miss that one (and my previous 535i). If my six numbers ever come up I'll have a E39 with every trim, spec., gearbox and engine in my barn.
I've heard very good things about Grinspeed. Quite a few people on the FN2 pages use them. I use Honda HQ who are local to me in the West Midlands and they have been absolutely fantastic with the work they've done.
Edited by StuE39 on Wednesday 21st June 21:37
The Rotrex Kid said:
That Brembo kit is what I have kb my EP3
It’s superb for the money.
I'm guessing you have a supercharger fitted to your EP3? Do you have a build thread you can link? I'd definitely go the Brembo route if I had big power as the extra weight of the much needed larger discs won't be noticeable with the power you're running.It’s superb for the money.
I was genuinely worried my FN2 wouldn't have the torque to turn an extra 6 kg of rotational mass over the front axle.
I did research both setups as they were sat in my garage. The consensus was the Brembo kit was the better for bigger power as you can fit 345mm discs with an adapter kit. My Spoon calipers do have an adapter kit available to fit RX8 discs, but even then, they can't compare to the 345mm discs (which can also be bought as two-piece discs).
My Brembo kit was fitted to a 480+ bhp FN2 turbo.
Edited by StuE39 on Wednesday 21st June 22:03
StuE39 said:
d_a_n1979 said:
A great car Stu and certainly a different angle of attack from the E39
Can highly recommend my pal Ste at Grinspeed up this way if you ever need the car fettling etc
Looking forward to see what else you get up to with the FN
Thanks Dan. Can highly recommend my pal Ste at Grinspeed up this way if you ever need the car fettling etc
Looking forward to see what else you get up to with the FN
The E39 really was a great car and being a manual sport 530i was a pretty rare car. I do miss that one (and my previous 535i). If my six numbers ever come up I'll have a E39 with every trim, spec., gearbox and engine in my barn.
I've heard very good things about Grinspeed. Quite a few people on the FN2 pages use them. I use Honda HQ who are local to me in the West Midlands and they have been absolutely fantastic with the work they've done.
Edited by StuE39 on Wednesday 21st June 21:37
My last 2 being Japanese imports (530i Sport Touring and a 540i Sport saloon) they spoiled me but I'd also got to a stage where I wanted a more modern car and my previous F01 spoiled me.
Hence the current F31 M Sport Touring
They're good lads Ste & Don at Grinspeed. They literally get folk from all across the land visiting them for their Honda trickery
StuE39 said:
I'm guessing you have a supercharger fitted to your EP3? Do you have a build thread you can link?
Just saw this! Big rambling thread here! https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...I need to get some stuff sorted. Just never have the time to do it any more.
I completely forgot I'd had these fitted a few months ago until flicking through my receipts and spotting one for Hybrid Racing 'shifter,' cable bushes.
These are a nice improvement to the tired original worn bushes. At the time these were fitted I was using a Hybrid Racing Delrin 130R gear knob which weighed 100g. The lightweight design of the 130R really added to the more notchy and stiff gear change which could be felt with the new bushes. I've since changed to a genuine Mugen gear knob which weighs around 150g - as the 130R sat too high even on the lowest setting. Fitting the Mugen knob feels like I've fitted a short shifter.
I actually preferred the feeling of the gear change engagement with the 130R and upgraded bushes; however, I much prefer the shorter throw of the Mugen even if it has reduced the notchy feel which was more noticeable with the 130R.
Who'd have thought gear knobs would be so interesting.
I've also noticed that I miss 3rd gear less now. Whether that's the new bushes, shorter gear change throw, a combination of both or I've just learned how to drive properly is still undecided.
The Rotrex Kid said:
The HR kit is great ain’t it? I have the Maxim gear knob with my HR short shifter and it’s superb. I have some solid bushes like those as well. Great little mod!
You've done it the right way and gone all out with the short shifter too. I'd definitely use the 130R (have a spare somewhere) if I go down the HR short shifter route. Unfortunately on the standard Honda set-up the 130R increased the feel of the throw a bit too much. Great quality products though as you say. How do you find the feel of the short shifter? Does it retain that positive feel as you change gear?
Edited by StuE39 on Friday 21st July 21:12
The Rotrex Kid said:
It feels great, much slicker than the OEM unit, the throw is just right and I’ve not missed a gear since I fitted it. You can adjust the side-to-side and back-forward throw if you want to (I haven’t!) but the option is there.
I'll be looking at a short shifter as a last mod. I reckon. Definitely sounds worth it. May help a bit with quicker changes to get everything I can from the standard engine!In my quest to remove as much weight as possible, I have bought spark plug and intake manifold carbon fibre covers to replace the standard plastic. I've worked out a reduction of 2.......nah, not really. I just think they look great. I had my rocker cover refurbished in nighthawk black so these should be a nice touch to the engine bay.
Nice thread. I enjoyed my FN2 and thought it was quite underrated.
I will disagree on the remaps though, I had one on mine, much more fun, loads more midrange as you say, and the noise kicks in earlier so you get to enjoy it more of the time, but still capable of revving even higher than stock, and it still delivers its best when you really rev the tits off it, I didn't feel like it detracted from the car at all, but each to their own
Did you have yours dyno'd? As stock they are 198 bhp not 207 - although mine would have been nearer 207 with remap.
Looking forward to seeing more updates on this one
I will disagree on the remaps though, I had one on mine, much more fun, loads more midrange as you say, and the noise kicks in earlier so you get to enjoy it more of the time, but still capable of revving even higher than stock, and it still delivers its best when you really rev the tits off it, I didn't feel like it detracted from the car at all, but each to their own
Did you have yours dyno'd? As stock they are 198 bhp not 207 - although mine would have been nearer 207 with remap.
Looking forward to seeing more updates on this one
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff