Elise S1

[Smitters]

About time I did this, and also so as not to derail the Sub-11k K Series thread:

I went from a Seven to an Elise a couple of years ago. My thoughts and reasons below, but feel free to comment, question, deride, mock and generally take the piss.

The outgoing Seven was a 140/145bhp 1600 K series seven. Battered Old Supersport for those who may know the car. Tillets, 6 points, 3.9 LSD, six speed box, dry sump, Nitrons and Powerflex bushes, caged, no heater. In short, a track car with a numberplate. Extremely capable in capable hands. Untidy bodywork but mechanically superb. 95dB on a good day. Only depreciating by inflation really.


Caterham at Abingdon



See here for more info: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... though I'm pretty sure a st-ton has been deleted, because I distinctly remember writing a post about a Silverstone trackday... Odd.


A big fan of sitting in it...



The incoming Elise was a boggo 111 S1, so 118bhp 1800 K series. Soft and hardtop. Good price due to mileage, location and circumstance so it immediately had the Konis removed and Nitrons put on. The reason the MOT noted slight oil leak on a damper was no longer leaking oil? None to leak...

I had three main reasons for switching.

1) I couldn't take my then 2 1/2 y/o anywhere in the Caterham. Safety and noise being the main issues.

2) I have wanted an Elise since I was 16. A neighbour got a green one and it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Another neighbour got a silver Exige in 2000/2001 which was out of this world.

3) I'd been watching the prices for a few years and they were starting to creep up, towards a point I'd not be able to get into one. See also, reasons I don't own an S1 Exige...


You can see the pricing evidence here: https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-100k-garag... £8.5k for a DVA engined S1 Elise. F my f'ing life, why did I not borrow the money then?

As I was looking, I did test a couple of S2 111Rs. Were they "better" cars? Maybe. Did I like them more? Absolutely not. And were they wildly overpriced? Absolutely.

So, do I regret it selling the Caterham and buying the Elise?

Yes and no.


Elise Pros

• Gorgeous
• Can transport either child (4 and 1)
• Much more usable day to day (dry, comfier, less noisy etc.)

Elise Cons

• Lack of reliability (in mine, at least) with silly things. Or character if you prefer. I don't prefer.
• Some massively frustrating elements alongside some awesome elements. Extruded pedals - so nice looking. Vauxhall indicator stalks - could they look stter? Front towpost - yes, lets definitely make that out of mild steel when it's in the elements all the time, then make it a clam-off job to replace.
• Stupid wheel PDC
• Challenging to drive on track by comparison (old dog, new tricks...)
• If you thoughts CaterhamParts took the piss on pricing...

There has been a bit of this



The Caterham was epic on track, but a total ballache to get anywhere in. 5000 rpm in sixth at 75? Jesus wept. The Elise is a bit too special for me to use on track now, so I've gone a different direction ( https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... ) but I did a lot of maths before deciding to sell the Caterham. I essence, I borrowed cash to buy the right Elise, then sold the Seven to pay off the loan. I debated long and hard about just paying off the loan, but the dual running costs were just too much to swallow versus my retirement planning. I'd rather retire when I want and build a new Seven or similar with my sons at that time.

Do I miss the Seven - yes. Did I make the right decision? Yes.

There's a boy asleep in the passenger seat...

Edited by Smitters on Thursday 1st August 09:39

[Smitters]

I suspect an Elise would be a very rewarding car to drive well. I'm not a good track driver - very much a novice - but like you point out, the repair bills can be a bit eye-watering and potentially cause a write-off if there was structural damage. Lotus intended it to be modular, but that requires all the modules to still be available...

For something mainly to drive about and the occasional track day, an Elise would be fine for most decent drivers. If you were after a car mainly for trackdays, unless there was no other you wanted (in which case there's a £16.5k race Elise in the classifieds right now), I would have a Caterham and a trailer.

I'm really enjoying my MG as a track car, because it's a zero-fks-given proposition and a great chance to better my spanner skills. I could literally leave it on the side of the road and not be (too) bothered. I'd be gutted if I damaged the Elise, even by clipping a cone. This is where black GRP wings on a Caterham are a Godsend I think!

[Smitters]

Fishy Dave said:

Hi Danny,

That Caterham looks familiar

Hey Dave. Pleased to see you're continuing he red fun-car theme with the C6.

PTF said:

Things

So I gave it some thought while my son kicked me up and down his bed last night trying to get to sleep...

I completely get where you're coming from in terms of not wanting to track your current car. I have no doubt it would be capable, but that it would come at a cost too, in terms of consumables, bodywork, component life and the like. I briefly flirted with the idea of running a C4S as my everyday and track car. Even PhD level man-maths wasn't getting that one to pass the sense-check.

You've obviously been exposed to similar Caterhams to me and they're utterly charming to drive, with track abilities far beyond their Top Trump figures. For all the motoring press lauded the Elise for it's feel, feedback and so on, but I can honestly say I preferred the steering on the Seven. I don't care that every motoring journalist will tell me I'm wrong, but the Seven I sold had the best steering set-up I've ever experienced (after quite some expense was implemented). You simply thought your way down the road, rather like riding a pushbike down a winding hill - no steering as such, just bodily inputs which turn the thing. The Elise just has this rather stringy wheel that never shuts up, rather like an irritating four year old going "What's that? What's that? What's this? What's that?". The thin rim almost demands you drive it with fingertips and your pinkies extended as though you were drinking tea with someone posh.

In terms of driving an (S1) Elise to and from a trackday, even one with an overnight stop, I don't think there's much in it versus a normal Caterham. My Caterham was about as far to the end of the scale as it could go in terms of diff chatter, bare metal interior, no heater, half-hood, ludicrous gearing. A "normal" Caterham with sensible gearing, heater, full hood, woolly hat and a decent set of bluetooth earphones is really not any less tiring that the Elise over a long distance, with the possible exception of footspace for stretching. I drove to Aberdeen once (from Gloucestershire) in a 1400k. I spent quite a bit of the northern M6 with my left foot on the accelerator just to give my right foot a break! A removable steering wheel always helped from a security point of view, as did an FIA key, or the removal of a fuse or two. There's more useable space in a Caterham I think, from a tools and bags point of view.

Reliability I think I can split into genuine issues and TADTS irritations, some of which are likely because it's a 20 year old car that was equipped with the cheapest, or first, parts they found without much research or thought.

• Mine's had HGF, and a failed fuel pump, both of which needed a recovery truck. But I don't think that bothers me as much as the little things.

• The Stack dash gives almost no information. Except coolant temp. Only mine has an electrical fault causing the reading to leap all over the place. I've been chasing it for the entire ownership to no avail so far.

• The heater adjuster has jammed between screen and feet. Mainly because the parts used are old, decrepit and a bit unsuitable. Possibly from a black cab?

• It's a constant battle to keep the gearlever well adjusted.

• It'll flatten a battery in two weeks of non-use. How, I have no idea.

• The number of parts that are rusting off or breaking down because of age, where their equivalents are actually just fine on my stty £600 MG is astonishing.

• The backlights on the buttons are sporadic at best.

• The stereo will not hold a radio station for love nor money. This one really sums up the different owners for me. Some will say "the engine is the music". To which I say, if you're going to fit a radio, make sure it works. Or save the 10kg and give me better gauges. And a clock.

I have a funny feeling that if you got an Elise, it would fall between two stools for you. Not as accomplished as the Boxster as a day to day car, but not the low-risk, low-cost proposition on track that a Caterham would be. A lot would come down to whether you liked driving one enough to buy one, or like me, preferred driving the Seven. In your position, unless you become as infatuated with the Elise as I am, I would be looking at a cheap 986 or a Caterham with road bias to make driving there and back OK. Not that it ever stopped me driving out to Pembrey or over to Silverstone in the freezing cold and rain. I just envied the dry people with feeling in their hands and feet.

At the end of the day, I do recognise I'm blinded by love for my car. It is in the best colour (thanks HustleRussell) and short of it being a full blown Exige, it's about the prettiest thing I've seen on the roads that I could even vaguely afford. And I also recognise these are really, really nice problems to have. Plenty of people drive what I call my stty MG as their main car, so I'm not so self absorbed to think any of this is a real problem!

Edited by Smitters on Monday 12th July 14:34

[Smitters]

SidewaysSi said:

I have both, a heavily modded Elise S1 Sport 160 and a K Series Caterham Superlight and must admit that for me the Lotus has the better steering.

I actually think you need to heavily modify an Elise to uncork it.

I have spent around £7k on upgrades on it (hate to work it out) but bloody hell do I love it.

Going to be buried in the thing!

Ha, just goes to show it's horses for courses. I'm inclined to agree - I think that the design and the chassis of the Elise are pretty revolutionary, but it's riddled with limitations based on cost and timing.

I must say, I'm not normally a fan of the 160 spoiler, but with a body coloured roof that side profile is just awesome. I'd be very interested to hear where you money went and what you felt were the most impactful upgrades. I have a plan of my own for improving the car but as always, it's very fluid.

[Smitters]

lancer778544 said:

Smitters said:

*The stereo will not hold a radio station for love nor money. This one really sums up the different owners for me. Some will say "the engine is the music". To which I say, if you're going to fit a radio, make sure it works. Or save the 10kg and give me better gauges. And a clock.

It's probably very low on your list of priorities but this could be down to a switched red and yellow wire on the back of the headunit. The yellow should be +12v all the time for memory retention and the red is ignition switched 12v which tells the radio to turn on when you switch the ignition on. If these are switched then the radio will still work but forget everything you've programmed in within a few mins of turning the ignition off. Most headunits have bullet connectors halfway down their loom to facilitate easy switching and some others have a fuse on the back that you can switch the position on to do the same.

Cheers for the tip, but bad wording from me - it simply fails to tune into national stations in areas I know full well have excellent signal. I suspect crappy aerial connections. Frankly though, if I can find a modern mechless headunit with DAB that suits the look I'm going for, I'll swap sooner rather than later. My intention is to remove the coin trays and replace them with a flat plate, on which I'll mount tweeters, then have some decent speakers behind me, either driven by the HU or from a small amp. Probably the HU to be fair as they've come a long way since the 90s and quality is secondary to volume! I don't always want to listen to music, but sometimes it's nice to have an option.

[Smitters]

It turns out that sometimes, the standard PH response is correct!

Sounds like a plan. And as you're bombing round the track, I doubt you will be thinking "I wish I was in a Caterham".

[Smitters]

Nice one. An interesting list and I'm not surprised the most tactile mods have been impactful. I'm busy reorganising life but once I'm more settled I plan on attending slowly to all the little niggles I have with the S1 in order to turn it into the car I think it should have been. That's not to say trying to wreck it, just subtle improvements over OEM to give it some longevity and a sense of being special that bare plastic and Vauxhall indicators just don't quite give...

But for now, I'll be adjusting the rear clam, because the drivers door glass is rubbing. Marvelous.

[Smitters]

Well, sad times, but all good things and all that. I have decided to sell the Elise and use the money to fund a kit car build I can tackle over the next few years with my boys. I've enjoyed owning the Elise tremendously and while it was always a dream to own one, I've arrived at a point where I'd like to build a kit from scratch, so I have to make some room.

I nearly sold it back to the previous owner, but I think there was a bit of disappointment on his part over the lack or originality in the car once I'd got my teeth into it. It's a fair point, but when I bought it, it was an absolute dog to drive, bearings shot, shocks empty of oil and desperate for a proper service, so there was no way it was staying standard when revised or improved parts could go on.

Hopefully the kit car build thread will be more eventful as this was a little quiet, but then I didn't actually mod much on the car - I just enjoyed it!

[Smitters]

So this happened:







Mrs Smitters was very pleased we had garage space, space on the drive and generally one less vehicle to worry about, tax, insure and throw money at needlessly.

Then 49 hours later, this happened:



My earnest attempt to arrive at destitute singledom continues here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...