2001 996 Turbo, pre facelift?

2001 996 Turbo, pre facelift?

Author
Discussion

isleoflewis

Original Poster:

6 posts

154 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
Hi there

I'm considering joining the world of 911 ownership and can spend up to £25k.
I started out thinking of a £2.5K z3, but inflation has led me to the 911 world.. eek!
I have test driven a few including 03 c4 cab, 03 c4s coupe, 04 c2 cab, 99 c4 cab and an 02 turbo.
The turbo got me thinking, I am not mad on the looks, but the handling and performance were unbelievable. I like the sound of the reliability of the engine and drivetrain as well.

I am thinking of viewing a late 01 turbo, but I understand there may have been a facelift version in 02, is this true and if so what are the advantages over the previous model, and do these show in the price? I have looked online but cannot find anything concrete on what the facelift was ( it seems to be under the skin from what I read, different chassis/shell and changed suspension).

I have decided against a high miler turbo on the grounds of resale hassles, though I suspect they will be fine mechanically.
Any words of wisdom welcome.

The curve ball is a Targa, which I assume has to be a 2wd drive model, but they seem to be unusual (which I like) and seem to offer a good compromise. I am going to look at one today.

Thanks for reading!


davek_964

8,873 posts

176 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
Face lift changes are fairly minimal. Comsmetic changes (it got a glove compartment, and I think the cup holders were new). I have seen posts claiming there were body changes that made the car more rigid but nobody has ever posted much proving that.

I wouldn't worry about buying an '01 - I don't think you're missing much by being pre-facelift.

Only word of warning I would give is : Engines do have a reputation for being bullet proof but other things can still break. I bought a one owner low mileage car, and I still have problem after problem for the first year of ownership. It would have been very expensive if it wasn't for the excellent dealer after sales support and it did stop me bonding with the car. When I posted some of my problems on forums, I was surprised at the number of "oh yeah, I had those problems too" type replies.

Everything seems sorted with mine now - and although things will clearly wear out I do think it's a fantastic car now and I'm very glad I have it. But don't make the mistake I did and equate "bullet proof engine" with "trouble free".

smj996c

319 posts

194 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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A glove box and a 10 year out of date navigation system is the only discerable difference

stubbsy996

782 posts

214 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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isleoflewis said:
Hi there

I am not mad on the looks,
One of the best looking 911's produced (IMHO) !

davek_964

8,873 posts

176 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
stubbsy996 said:
One of the best looking 911's produced (IMHO) !
I'm forced to disagree. wink

Which is ironic, since I own one. Better than the NA, but still not up there as the prettiest I don't think.

stubbsy996

782 posts

214 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
stubbsy996 said:
One of the best looking 911's produced (IMHO) !
I'm forced to disagree. wink

Which is ironic, since I own one. Better than the NA, but still not up there as the prettiest I don't think.
Each to their own smile

Nobby Diesel

2,056 posts

252 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
Back to the OP's question.........
I bought my 996T just over 4 years ago.
It's a 2001 and was at 55k when I bought it, so probably one of the higher mileage cars at that point. I don'r do many miles, so now, the mileage isn't too high for what is a 10 year old car.
Issues - nothing that isn't a recognised issue with the model. Discs, condensors, clutch, heat shields, alternator and pads. With all this done, it should now be fairly settled for a few years.
Thus far (touching wood), I've been delighted with the car. Totally driveable, sure footed (I did get Chris at CG to breathe over it), tremendous performance and real useability.
Be aware though, things on the Turbo can be expensive.
Consumables such as tyres, oil, and service items are all more expensive than you think they are going to be.
I didn't worry about the car being a pre facelift. Sure the navigation is useless, but I know where I'm going 99% of the time and I know how to read a map.
No cup holders!!! It's a sports car, not a branch of Starbucks!
Go for it - I don't think you'll regret your choice.

Diesel130

1,549 posts

213 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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isleoflewis said:
... The turbo got me thinking, I am not mad on the looks, but the handling and performance were unbelievable. I like the sound of the reliability of the engine and drivetrain as well....
Yes... but surely you'll run out of island by the time you get it into 4th wink

RC

4,110 posts

220 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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Dave I sense you still miss the 964 in some respects? Having had one myself and now thinking about the 996tt I'm wondering whether the gain in power and refinement etc offsets the soul thing I had going with the 964 if you know what I mean!

Nobby Diesel

2,056 posts

252 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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....and "hello" by the way.

daveyb662

1,709 posts

166 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
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I looked at a 51 Reg car and it actually had the glove-box and cup-holder - so depends on MY I am guessing. Also, the PCM1 vs. PCM2 is another change that came about in 2002...Although perhaps both equally useless, you will be staring in the face of a cassette deck with the PCM1.

mr pg

1,956 posts

206 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
RC said:
Dave I sense you still miss the 964 in some respects? Having had one myself and now thinking about the 996tt I'm wondering whether the gain in power and refinement etc offsets the soul thing I had going with the 964 if you know what I mean!
I went from a 964 targa to a 996T last Sept. It's a very different car, epically fast in comparison, and you can drive it any time of year.
I love it (and can keep up with a friends 360, and anothers GT2 (some of the time!)), but there's a number of things I miss, such as the noise (even though turbo has a Tubi), the steering feel and handling of a 2wd 964, and the smallness compared with modern 911's.
I can myself going back to something older in the future, or a GT3 of some sort. In the meantime I'll enjoy the turbo until I can afford to change.

davek_964

8,873 posts

176 months

Wednesday 13th July 2011
quotequote all
mr pg said:
RC said:
Dave I sense you still miss the 964 in some respects? Having had one myself and now thinking about the 996tt I'm wondering whether the gain in power and refinement etc offsets the soul thing I had going with the 964 if you know what I mean!
I went from a 964 targa to a 996T last Sept. It's a very different car, epically fast in comparison, and you can drive it any time of year.
I love it (and can keep up with a friends 360, and anothers GT2 (some of the time!)), but there's a number of things I miss, such as the noise (even though turbo has a Tubi), the steering feel and handling of a 2wd 964, and the smallness compared with modern 911's.
I can myself going back to something older in the future, or a GT3 of some sort. In the meantime I'll enjoy the turbo until I can afford to change.
My 964 hasn't actually gone yet - it should go within the next week. And in fact, it's currently in use because the turbo is in for servicing.

But, I don't think I will miss it that much. Yes, the 964 is a very different experience - it is go cart like and pretty nimble. Although, I think some of that is because I've had it so long I know it very well and can throw it about without a seconds thought. Certainly there is more feedback.

But, the turbo is really very very good at everything it does. When I use the 964 (in anger) then yes, I appreciate that it has qualities the 996 turbo will never have. But the key thing is - when I'm using the 996 turbo - I no longer miss the 964 qualities, and haven't since I had the alignment sorted last September.

Plus, I am on a quest for another classic car at the moment anyway, so if I miss the feedback of the 964 I'll just use the replacement classic instead. smile

AndrewMontgomery

471 posts

196 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
mr pg said:
I went from a 964 targa to a 996T last Sept. It's a very different car, epically fast in comparison, and you can drive it any time of year.
I love it (and can keep up with a friends 360, and anothers GT2 (some of the time!)), but there's a number of things I miss, such as the noise (even though turbo has a Tubi), the steering feel and handling of a 2wd 964, and the smallness compared with modern 911's.
I can myself going back to something older in the future, or a GT3 of some sort. In the meantime I'll enjoy the turbo until I can afford to change.
Should more than keep up with a 360, more power and much more torque. As a pre-facelift 996tt seller I can honestly say that having come from a facelifted Carrera the glovebox and cupholders were not missed!

fioran0

2,410 posts

173 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
I thought all 996 turbos had the later style lights. They were right at the front end of the crossover and I don't think any came with the boxster style headlights.
Ill check PET later and confirm though.

mr pg

1,956 posts

206 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
fioran0 said:
I thought all 996 turbos had the later style lights. They were right at the front end of the crossover and I don't think any came with the boxster style headlights.
Ill check PET later and confirm though.
You're correct.

Vroomer

1,866 posts

181 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
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isleoflewis said:
I have test driven a few including 03 c4 cab, 03 c4s coupe, 04 c2 cab, 99 c4 cab and an 02 turbo.
Classic example of why SELLING a used car can be so frustrating!

monthefish

20,449 posts

232 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
isleoflewis said:
but I understand there may have been a facelift version in 02, is this true and if so what are the advantages over the previous model, and do these show in the price? I have looked online but cannot find anything concrete on what the facelift was ( it seems to be under the skin from what I read, different chassis/shell and changed suspension).
The 996 Turbo was unveilled in late 1999 for 2000 model year.

The 2001 models gained electric switches to open the front and rear lids, and improved interior illumination.

2002 models were the so-called facelift cars: glovebox, twin cup-holders, soft-touch plastics, better ventilation, Bose sound system, an auto-dim interior mirror and a rain sensor. Also, X50 power upgrade became an option.

The turbo always had the "996 mk 2" lights (adopted by the rest of the 996 range in 2001)

I, too, have heard/seen nothing to corroborate this 'body stiffening' theory, (but am open to being educated).

ETA: just found this

the article said:
In 2002, the 996’s rigidity and crash protection were both enhanced while the interior quality was improved
Edited by monthefish on Thursday 14th July 11:49

GreigM

6,733 posts

250 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
monthefish said:
ETA: just found this

the article said:
In 2002, the 996’s rigidity and crash protection were both enhanced while the interior quality was improved
Which is why you shouldn't read GTPP - as its just nonsense....

monthefish

20,449 posts

232 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
quotequote all
GreigM said:
monthefish said:
ETA: just found this

the article said:
In 2002, the 996’s rigidity and crash protection were both enhanced while the interior quality was improved
Which is why you shouldn't read GTPP - as its just nonsense....
I don't usually.
So 'rigidity improvment' remains unsubstantiated then?