Newbie 944 Info
Discussion
Hi guys and girls,
i currently own a 1990 Civic VT and am looking to change to a porsche 944,
i have read the write up on the website and have found it very useful thanks
now i am 20 years old (dont laugh) and i can budget up to around 2500 - 3000 for the car .
i understand that there is a tensioning mechanism on the early engines which can be faulty unless changed, now how hard is this to be changed, and would it be a "porsche garage" job or any garage??
i want something which is quick enough for me but nothing that is going to guzzle fuel and be rediculously hard to change parts on. so i think the turbo is out of the question as insurance would kill me anyway , but i have been thinking about the 2.5 engine or the later 2.7 engine
what do u guys think would be the best one for me
i do around 15k miles a year, and have quite good general knowledge on car mechanics,
any info would be greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
Jim
i currently own a 1990 Civic VT and am looking to change to a porsche 944,
i have read the write up on the website and have found it very useful thanks
now i am 20 years old (dont laugh) and i can budget up to around 2500 - 3000 for the car .
i understand that there is a tensioning mechanism on the early engines which can be faulty unless changed, now how hard is this to be changed, and would it be a "porsche garage" job or any garage??
i want something which is quick enough for me but nothing that is going to guzzle fuel and be rediculously hard to change parts on. so i think the turbo is out of the question as insurance would kill me anyway , but i have been thinking about the 2.5 engine or the later 2.7 engine
what do u guys think would be the best one for me
i do around 15k miles a year, and have quite good general knowledge on car mechanics,
any info would be greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
Jim
Iguana is your man on this, but my personal favourite is the S2 which should be available for a tiny bit more, especially LHD. The tensioner job should be done by a good porsche independent - they are only 40-50 GBP per hour anyway, so not like going to a main dealer. A normal garage could do it, but they would probably charge a similar amount, so why bother?
Of the earlier 944 models, I'd buy on condition above all.
The other car I'd consider in your price range which would be an E36 325i BMW, which will be newer, handle well and be more of a known quantity.
Of the earlier 944 models, I'd buy on condition above all.
The other car I'd consider in your price range which would be an E36 325i BMW, which will be newer, handle well and be more of a known quantity.
thanks for your reply.
my dad has the E46 325 BMW and him and myself have not been impressed by it, i also want something a bit different from the norm, hence a 944.
i have found 7 on the autotrader, all of which seem to be around my pricerange
also , for parts like gaskets, plugs, leads etc, how hard are everyday parts to get for the 944's????
do they have the same availability as say a merc in most car shops or will part finding be a bit of a problem ?
thank you for the help
my dad has the E46 325 BMW and him and myself have not been impressed by it, i also want something a bit different from the norm, hence a 944.
i have found 7 on the autotrader, all of which seem to be around my pricerange
also , for parts like gaskets, plugs, leads etc, how hard are everyday parts to get for the 944's????
do they have the same availability as say a merc in most car shops or will part finding be a bit of a problem ?
thank you for the help
Hi Jim
The best thing about older porsches is the parts availability. Many parts are available from eurocarparts.com as a Bosch, but not Porsche, branded factor part (Golf mk2 headlights are the same as 944 headlights!), there are plenty of breakers and salvage yards/dismantlers who will see you gearboxes and trim etc. plus you can look on specialist websites and ebay. Remember, there is a lot that you can upgrade too, so there are many reasonably priced and better performing parts out there. You are really only held for ransom for bits that only Porsche can provide, and even they are quite reasonable most of the time.
I agree that the E46 is a bit boring despite being a very competent car. The E36 is just a huge amount of car for the money at 2.5k second hand! Don't let me put you off the 944 tho'; however, it will be more expensive to run and maintain than a more modern car like the BMW. There are plenty of wear items coming up for renewal on 944s built in the late 80s and early 90s. Buy on condition, not model. A 944S2 would be nice for a grand more, but you can get doggy ones for 3k and they will cost a grand or two to sort. Remember, whatever you buy will cost a grand or two to sort if it isn't perfect in this price bracket for a car of this type.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Dom
The best thing about older porsches is the parts availability. Many parts are available from eurocarparts.com as a Bosch, but not Porsche, branded factor part (Golf mk2 headlights are the same as 944 headlights!), there are plenty of breakers and salvage yards/dismantlers who will see you gearboxes and trim etc. plus you can look on specialist websites and ebay. Remember, there is a lot that you can upgrade too, so there are many reasonably priced and better performing parts out there. You are really only held for ransom for bits that only Porsche can provide, and even they are quite reasonable most of the time.
I agree that the E46 is a bit boring despite being a very competent car. The E36 is just a huge amount of car for the money at 2.5k second hand! Don't let me put you off the 944 tho'; however, it will be more expensive to run and maintain than a more modern car like the BMW. There are plenty of wear items coming up for renewal on 944s built in the late 80s and early 90s. Buy on condition, not model. A 944S2 would be nice for a grand more, but you can get doggy ones for 3k and they will cost a grand or two to sort. Remember, whatever you buy will cost a grand or two to sort if it isn't perfect in this price bracket for a car of this type.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Dom
yes it does greatly thanks mate
well im really keen on the 944, i am just struggling for insurance at the moment but i have just been informed by a friend to buy a classic car magazine and look for insurance companies in there so that may be worth a try
its good to know that parts arent a killer on the car as that was my biggest worry on them
well im really keen on the 944, i am just struggling for insurance at the moment but i have just been informed by a friend to buy a classic car magazine and look for insurance companies in there so that may be worth a try
its good to know that parts arent a killer on the car as that was my biggest worry on them
Jim,
A friend of mine went from Metro to Jetta 16 valve to 944 2.7 Lux.
He was only a couple of years older than you when he got his car, but the killer was the insurance.
We went through all the options (he had a slightly larger budget too) from 2.5 Lux, S, Turbo, 2.7 Lux, and S2.
Between the fragility of the S and the camshaft "issues" on the S2 (and later 968) we figured the best choice was a lux or a turbo, but the insurance on the turbo was just that little bit worse.
In the end he found a one owner 2.7 lux with FPSH and loved every day with it.
Refined, economical on a long run, quiet, comfy and very very torquey.
Then he sold it and bought a Harley (don't ask).
Good luck in your search for "the right car". Hope the information above helps you.
VS
A friend of mine went from Metro to Jetta 16 valve to 944 2.7 Lux.
He was only a couple of years older than you when he got his car, but the killer was the insurance.
We went through all the options (he had a slightly larger budget too) from 2.5 Lux, S, Turbo, 2.7 Lux, and S2.
Between the fragility of the S and the camshaft "issues" on the S2 (and later 968) we figured the best choice was a lux or a turbo, but the insurance on the turbo was just that little bit worse.
In the end he found a one owner 2.7 lux with FPSH and loved every day with it.
Refined, economical on a long run, quiet, comfy and very very torquey.
Then he sold it and bought a Harley (don't ask).
Good luck in your search for "the right car". Hope the information above helps you.
VS
Civic Jim said:I've had my 85 2.5 lux for a little over a year and have put about 10k miles on it. It now has about 97k on it. I use it to commute when I'm not on my bike and view it as my everyday runabout and not as a fragile classic. Since I bought it I've replaced the shocks, front suspension bushes and balljoints and the rear driveshaft cvs. The cvs were the only thing that has left me car-less for a few days. I've given up asking local auto-factors for parts as they rarely have them in and I buy stuff from people like Bert at Berlyn-Services over the internet.
also , for parts like gaskets, plugs, leads etc, how hard are everyday parts to get for the 944's????
do they have the same availability as say a merc in most car shops or will part finding be a bit of a problem ?
I insure mine through Halifax which costs me just over 300 quid but I'm 36.
It's a nice sporty car that could do with being a bit quicker (depends on what you're used to) but for 3k I couldn't think of anything I wanted more.
Mark
cool thanks guys, i am thinking that the 2.7 lux is going to be the one i ought to look out for. im in no real hurry at the moment which is good. im wanting to keep it standard but mint as i think they look perfect as they are,
well im off to find a few more insurance companies, can anyone recommend a few??
also what is the average fuel consumption on the 2.7 lux? approx
i really appreciate your help guys
many thanks
Jim
well im off to find a few more insurance companies, can anyone recommend a few??
also what is the average fuel consumption on the 2.7 lux? approx
i really appreciate your help guys
many thanks
Jim
Might be contentious but...
If you're in no hurry then keep a watching brief on autotrader & chance your arm with low offers - someone will always bite & you'll have the car you want at the price you want. Recently bought a 968 for just over 6.5k - ok it took me 6 months of looking but hey it wasn't the 12k+ that most sellers are after...
If you're in no hurry then keep a watching brief on autotrader & chance your arm with low offers - someone will always bite & you'll have the car you want at the price you want. Recently bought a 968 for just over 6.5k - ok it took me 6 months of looking but hey it wasn't the 12k+ that most sellers are after...
Not exactly - the 2.7 lux is around 160bhp i think and about 1150kg? somewhere around there. No doubt google would throw some light on this.
What you have to remember is that your civic is all about redlines and peaky power - the 2.7 lux has a BIG 4 pot engine with 8 valves. This thing doesn't do revs, it does TORQUE by the bucket.
Plus, in your fwd car you can plough into a corner fast and then lift off and wait for the nose to tuck in, but if you get on the power too early you'll just push wide.
in the 944 you'll go into the corner a little slower, but put your foot down as you go through and catapult yourself out of the corner that much faster as a result. Get on the power early and enjoy...
Horses for courses and all that, you know? But try putting your foot down in the 944 at 3000 rpm in 3rd and see what happens
VS
What you have to remember is that your civic is all about redlines and peaky power - the 2.7 lux has a BIG 4 pot engine with 8 valves. This thing doesn't do revs, it does TORQUE by the bucket.
Plus, in your fwd car you can plough into a corner fast and then lift off and wait for the nose to tuck in, but if you get on the power too early you'll just push wide.
in the 944 you'll go into the corner a little slower, but put your foot down as you go through and catapult yourself out of the corner that much faster as a result. Get on the power early and enjoy...
Horses for courses and all that, you know? But try putting your foot down in the 944 at 3000 rpm in 3rd and see what happens
VS
ok thanks,
so what kind of torque figures do these 2.7's have with 4cyl, and 8v they must be pretty high i woudl think ?
yeah, my civic has to be wound up to get any power, its not as slow as what many people think out of Vtec but its no supercar,
im not after anything thats rediculously fast , i just want something smooth, nice to drive, quick enough, handles nicely, good build quality, and nice detailing, which is qhy i thought the 944 seemed a good choice
so what kind of torque figures do these 2.7's have with 4cyl, and 8v they must be pretty high i woudl think ?
yeah, my civic has to be wound up to get any power, its not as slow as what many people think out of Vtec but its no supercar,
im not after anything thats rediculously fast , i just want something smooth, nice to drive, quick enough, handles nicely, good build quality, and nice detailing, which is qhy i thought the 944 seemed a good choice
Civic Jim said:
im not after anything thats rediculously fast , i just want something smooth, nice to drive, quick enough, handles nicely, good build quality, and nice detailing, which is qhy i thought the 944 seemed a good choice
Jim, the proverbial nail on head eh?
According to my quick search, the following comes up:
944 2.7 Lux 166lbft@4200rpm
Civic 1.6 VTi 106lbft@7100rpm
VS
I've run a 2.5 lux for three years and would advise that condition is everything when looking at buying these cars.
Certain apects of ownership are'nt that expensive but for example if it needs a new clutch, then the bills can get a bit eye watering!
Good luck there fun to drive and a bit different to the norm.
If you go back a few pages on this forum you will find a couple of usefull buyers guides.
>> Edited by interloper on Tuesday 7th December 19:59
Certain apects of ownership are'nt that expensive but for example if it needs a new clutch, then the bills can get a bit eye watering!
Good luck there fun to drive and a bit different to the norm.
If you go back a few pages on this forum you will find a couple of usefull buyers guides.
>> Edited by interloper on Tuesday 7th December 19:59
Could I strike a note of caution please chaps.
I run an 82 Lux with an 89 2.7 engine in it, fitted by a previous owner. Whilst I agree that they are great cars and good value I would advise against a 2.7.
The 2.7 was only made for a short period of time (12 months or so) and consequently parts are miles more expensive than all other versions of the 944, turbos included in most cases. Many parts are double the price. The rest of the car is standard fair but beware of engine parts. If you are running the car on a budget I would suggest that the very last of the 2.5s would be an easier thing to look after.
Don't let anyone put you off they are great cars. I have had mine for six years and have no plans to sell it.
Just my opinion but I hope it helps.
I run an 82 Lux with an 89 2.7 engine in it, fitted by a previous owner. Whilst I agree that they are great cars and good value I would advise against a 2.7.
The 2.7 was only made for a short period of time (12 months or so) and consequently parts are miles more expensive than all other versions of the 944, turbos included in most cases. Many parts are double the price. The rest of the car is standard fair but beware of engine parts. If you are running the car on a budget I would suggest that the very last of the 2.5s would be an easier thing to look after.
Don't let anyone put you off they are great cars. I have had mine for six years and have no plans to sell it.
Just my opinion but I hope it helps.
ok thanks guys , well im still investigating insurance at the mo , as most people arent quoting me on it.
however with the performance figures stated about the civic i have has just been dyno'd at 166 BHP and it weighs in at 1050 kg so its really light, i just dont want anything too sluggish for overtaking etc but i will find out how they go when i test drive one i suppose.
what kind of price do the clutches and discs go for ? i just want to find out as much info as i can before i go and buy one then realise i cant afford to run it
thanks guys
Jim
however with the performance figures stated about the civic i have has just been dyno'd at 166 BHP and it weighs in at 1050 kg so its really light, i just dont want anything too sluggish for overtaking etc but i will find out how they go when i test drive one i suppose.
what kind of price do the clutches and discs go for ? i just want to find out as much info as i can before i go and buy one then realise i cant afford to run it
thanks guys
Jim
Have a look here Hartec for buyers guid & servicing costs.
Clutch for my 944S2 cost me about £600+Vat (this is cheap in copmarison to others!
Altogether I've spent over £2000 in the first 10 months of ownership inc full service including all belts & break overhaul & the clutch.
I'd reccomend looking at a few, buying on condition & getting an inspection done on the car you like. It might seem like a load of mither but could save you £000's
P.S. on the insurance front I insure mine on a limited milage classic policy with Carole Nash 0800-298-5500/5555. Costs me about £500/year for 6000miles which aint bad for a M33 postcode.
Clutch for my 944S2 cost me about £600+Vat (this is cheap in copmarison to others!
Altogether I've spent over £2000 in the first 10 months of ownership inc full service including all belts & break overhaul & the clutch.
I'd reccomend looking at a few, buying on condition & getting an inspection done on the car you like. It might seem like a load of mither but could save you £000's
P.S. on the insurance front I insure mine on a limited milage classic policy with Carole Nash 0800-298-5500/5555. Costs me about £500/year for 6000miles which aint bad for a M33 postcode.
I don't think it's the price of the actual clutch, it's just that to change it the easyest way is to take the engine out which costs in labour. I've been quoted £850 for the clutch in my Turbo. I think the clutch is the Achilles' heel of the 944, I think everything else is prety much ok.
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