944 Performance
Discussion
I have always loved the look of the 944 and had a picture of one on my wall as a child. At the age of 34 I can now actually afford to buy and look after one. I've only viewed two cars at present. The first was a 944 2.7 , a very nice example, I thought the performance was OK but probably not what I was looking for. I started to look towards an S2 or Turbo - both look really great and on paper are significantly faster. I drove an S2 recently and was most unimpressed. There was significant clutch 'judder' in first gear - feeling like you'd put it in 5th to start off - that bothered me. Then even with my foot to the floor in second - it really didn't feel much faster than a 1.6 escort. Am I missing the point here, is there something I need to know about driving one, do they only perform above a certain rev? I can tell the handling is fantastic - but I just can't work out why I don't get the wow factor when accelerating. Is this usual, was there something wrong with those cars? How does a turbo compare to an S2? Can anyone help.
I have had an S2 for three years and racked up 30,000 miles in all conditions.
It is a "quite fast" car indeed but it doesn't feel it at all, mostly because it is very comfortable and performs with minimal drama/maximum efficiency. The speedo is the only give away on how fast the car actually moves, especially when cruising at 150 on the Autobahn when the engine note is completely covered by wind noise.
944s feel best when driven at high speeds. They can take a long time to bring above 100 mph as they have a patently underpowered engine in an overweight chassis (especially for the Lux) but once there the handling is a delight, going through fast sweepers like no other period cars.
The turbo is also a good choice too although unlike the S2 it is a pain to drive slowly as it's a bigger car in feel than the S2 : in stock form the engine feels sluggish below 3000 rpm and the tyres are wider (on later models at least).
Try another S2 in perfect condition, especially with a good suspension. You may very well get a better impression.
Avoid earlier cars (2.5 or 2.7 8V or S) as they will only make you quickly want to upgrade for an S2 or a turbo.
There are days I think I should have gone for something a bit more exciting but the (performance+ reliability)/running costs ratio is simply unbeatable.
All IMO.
>> spelling
>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 9th March 09:29
It is a "quite fast" car indeed but it doesn't feel it at all, mostly because it is very comfortable and performs with minimal drama/maximum efficiency. The speedo is the only give away on how fast the car actually moves, especially when cruising at 150 on the Autobahn when the engine note is completely covered by wind noise.
944s feel best when driven at high speeds. They can take a long time to bring above 100 mph as they have a patently underpowered engine in an overweight chassis (especially for the Lux) but once there the handling is a delight, going through fast sweepers like no other period cars.
The turbo is also a good choice too although unlike the S2 it is a pain to drive slowly as it's a bigger car in feel than the S2 : in stock form the engine feels sluggish below 3000 rpm and the tyres are wider (on later models at least).
Try another S2 in perfect condition, especially with a good suspension. You may very well get a better impression.
Avoid earlier cars (2.5 or 2.7 8V or S) as they will only make you quickly want to upgrade for an S2 or a turbo.
There are days I think I should have gone for something a bit more exciting but the (performance+ reliability)/running costs ratio is simply unbeatable.
All IMO.
>> spelling
>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 9th March 09:29
I've just bought a 944S2 & have found the power delivery very strong across the rev range, I've yet to really thrashed it as I'm waiting untill I get it back from having a full service @ Hartech B4 I give it some stick.
However I did have an instant at a set of lights when a guy in a BMW530 tryed to have a drag with me - I was NOT left lacking pace & got away with out a problem. This may not be the case if there is some gearbox problems with the car you tested.
Andy
P.S. I also have had to rear wheels spining when accelerating in second on a damp road. If the car does not feel faster than a 1.6 Escort it sounds like a DOG.
>> Edited by Bananaman on Tuesday 9th March 10:51
However I did have an instant at a set of lights when a guy in a BMW530 tryed to have a drag with me - I was NOT left lacking pace & got away with out a problem. This may not be the case if there is some gearbox problems with the car you tested.
Andy
P.S. I also have had to rear wheels spining when accelerating in second on a damp road. If the car does not feel faster than a 1.6 Escort it sounds like a DOG.
>> Edited by Bananaman on Tuesday 9th March 10:51
Yo Steamvalve, either you "are" missing the point, or you drove a sick S2.
Line up a S2 against a 1.6 Escort and say goodbye, because the S2 will quickly be so far ahead of the Escort you won't even be able to see it.
They are verrrrrrrrrry smooooooooth, and this lends the uninformed to believe they are not quick. They are deceptive.
If you're looking for neck snapping performance with a howl, get a Camaro, but you still won't be able to outrun a 944, any 944, on the winding roads.
The entire 944 range is based on balance and precision. Some cars (turbo and S2 in particular) are faster than others, but even the very first of the 944 series would outrun a six cylinder Datsun 240-Z, on the street and on the track. The 944 is a perfect 50/50 balance, and it's a surgical tool for carving up the countryside, not something to burn rubber with.
There are Porsches, and then there are Porsche drivers. The Porsche driver, in the instance of the 944, knows how to appreciate the balance, superb steering, light touch on the controls, and the ability of the chassis to surpass just about anything else on the road. For those who are not appreciative of the "finer things of life", then they can generally find excitement in something that doesn't handle as well and makes more noise.
The normally aspirated 944 is a precision instrument that has embarassed the likes of Ferrari and Corvette, as well as some other Porsche models, in numerous head-to-head showdowns in the past. The fact that the car "only" had a 4-cylinder motor didn't sway the fact that it still beat out V8 cars like the Ferrari 308, 928, and Corvette. Porsche has never put a priority on drag racing, and 0 to 60, for instance, but has "always" been concerned about what happens once you get up to speed. Yes, there are some Porsche models that will blast off to sixty (and beyond) like a Saturn rocket, but it's "at speed" where they really excel.
My '84 944 is still a real blast to drive. My '90 S2 is actually quicker in the quarter mile and flying kilo than the '83 928, and it was the fastest car sold in North America, including turbocharged cars. The 928 will beat it to 60 by just a hair.
Hope this kind of puts things into perspective.
Regards, Dogsharks
Line up a S2 against a 1.6 Escort and say goodbye, because the S2 will quickly be so far ahead of the Escort you won't even be able to see it.
They are verrrrrrrrrry smooooooooth, and this lends the uninformed to believe they are not quick. They are deceptive.
If you're looking for neck snapping performance with a howl, get a Camaro, but you still won't be able to outrun a 944, any 944, on the winding roads.
The entire 944 range is based on balance and precision. Some cars (turbo and S2 in particular) are faster than others, but even the very first of the 944 series would outrun a six cylinder Datsun 240-Z, on the street and on the track. The 944 is a perfect 50/50 balance, and it's a surgical tool for carving up the countryside, not something to burn rubber with.
There are Porsches, and then there are Porsche drivers. The Porsche driver, in the instance of the 944, knows how to appreciate the balance, superb steering, light touch on the controls, and the ability of the chassis to surpass just about anything else on the road. For those who are not appreciative of the "finer things of life", then they can generally find excitement in something that doesn't handle as well and makes more noise.
The normally aspirated 944 is a precision instrument that has embarassed the likes of Ferrari and Corvette, as well as some other Porsche models, in numerous head-to-head showdowns in the past. The fact that the car "only" had a 4-cylinder motor didn't sway the fact that it still beat out V8 cars like the Ferrari 308, 928, and Corvette. Porsche has never put a priority on drag racing, and 0 to 60, for instance, but has "always" been concerned about what happens once you get up to speed. Yes, there are some Porsche models that will blast off to sixty (and beyond) like a Saturn rocket, but it's "at speed" where they really excel.
My '84 944 is still a real blast to drive. My '90 S2 is actually quicker in the quarter mile and flying kilo than the '83 928, and it was the fastest car sold in North America, including turbocharged cars. The 928 will beat it to 60 by just a hair.
Hope this kind of puts things into perspective.
Regards, Dogsharks
Steamvalve, here is another comparison.
I think just about any one of us here would get a big "wow" out of a 6-cylinder Jag XKE. Right? Lots of power, beautiful engine, great sounds, and lots of push too.
Guess what? An S2 will eat a Jag on side-by-side acceleration and top end. The 4-cylinder Porsche motor is a thing of beauty, a big unit by any standard, and with twin balance shafts to assure it stays silky smooth.
Here's what the Jaguar enthusiasts said about the XKE
"It was a blistering car - faster than just about any other contemporary production car. Road tests claimed the car had a top speed of 150 mph (~240km/h), and it was listed with a quarter mile time of 14.7-15.0 seconds and a 0-60 mph time in 7 seconds flat. The car was also great value at the time, with a basic price of around 1600 pounds making it about half the cost of an equivalent Ferrari."
The S2 is quicker to sixty, marginally quicker down the quarter mile, and with a higher top end.
Those "road test" numbers for the Jag, by the way, are a bit on the "optimistic" side. I use the figures in my S2 owners manual for comparison, and those were done with 1/2 the maximum load, which is around 320 pounds (max load is around 650 pounds for the car). Porsche always tests their cars at 1/2 max load, therefore, you can always get a quicker time in real world driving if you are the only occupant in the car.
www.essentialstyling.com/944%20external%20.wmv
Regards, Dogsharks
>> Edited by dogsharks on Tuesday 9th March 16:37
I think just about any one of us here would get a big "wow" out of a 6-cylinder Jag XKE. Right? Lots of power, beautiful engine, great sounds, and lots of push too.
Guess what? An S2 will eat a Jag on side-by-side acceleration and top end. The 4-cylinder Porsche motor is a thing of beauty, a big unit by any standard, and with twin balance shafts to assure it stays silky smooth.
Here's what the Jaguar enthusiasts said about the XKE
"It was a blistering car - faster than just about any other contemporary production car. Road tests claimed the car had a top speed of 150 mph (~240km/h), and it was listed with a quarter mile time of 14.7-15.0 seconds and a 0-60 mph time in 7 seconds flat. The car was also great value at the time, with a basic price of around 1600 pounds making it about half the cost of an equivalent Ferrari."
The S2 is quicker to sixty, marginally quicker down the quarter mile, and with a higher top end.
Those "road test" numbers for the Jag, by the way, are a bit on the "optimistic" side. I use the figures in my S2 owners manual for comparison, and those were done with 1/2 the maximum load, which is around 320 pounds (max load is around 650 pounds for the car). Porsche always tests their cars at 1/2 max load, therefore, you can always get a quicker time in real world driving if you are the only occupant in the car.
www.essentialstyling.com/944%20external%20.wmv
Regards, Dogsharks
>> Edited by dogsharks on Tuesday 9th March 16:37
[quote]steamvalve, try another S2 and if that doesn't impress try a 944 turbo se and if that doesn't then start saving![/quote]
Thanks for your comment - I'm pretty sure I saw a bad one and in any case I didn't get a decent enough drive. They would only let me got round the housing estate - so I didn't get a true feeling.
Thanks for your comment - I'm pretty sure I saw a bad one and in any case I didn't get a decent enough drive. They would only let me got round the housing estate - so I didn't get a true feeling.
Dogshark - thanks for taking the time to comment. I understand a lot more now. Clearly it's the smoothness and effortless acceleration that is perhaps confusing me. I certainly wasn't able to get it up to speed by the vendor and the test drive he took me. I will look out for a good one and give it another try - thanks!
In my opinon if you are used to reasonably quick cars then no an S2 won't feel mega fast, the power 2 weight ratio is certainly nothing to shout about anyway vs modern stuff anyway.
A Turbo will feel quicker due to is power delivery, but there really is not that much in it, esp given that few standard- unmodified Turbos are kicking out what they should anymore.
In pure straight line performance terms a 2.5 or 2.7 Lux is really no quicker than an older hot hatch, say 16v Golf or Astra GTE etc, so it won't set ya hair on fire, but it will (assuming its not a worn out old thing) still handle superbly & offer a heck of a lot of smiles per mile. An S2 is however a fair bit swifter than both the 2.5 & 2.7 in terms of top end power & mid range torque & is a significantly quicker car.
As an example get a good S2, pull out of a junction, nail it in every gear to the red, slot into say 4th & then glance at the speedo- it may not 'feel' that fast but unless the 1.6 escort you are refering to is a rare old BDA 1970s rally Escort! you will soon see the S2 is one heck of a lot quicker!
However in my opinion not many normally aspirated Porsches really do feel breathtakingly rapid on 1st experience, its living with them & seeing how capable they are in the real world that makes you appreciate what a rounded package they are.
A Turbo will feel quicker due to is power delivery, but there really is not that much in it, esp given that few standard- unmodified Turbos are kicking out what they should anymore.
In pure straight line performance terms a 2.5 or 2.7 Lux is really no quicker than an older hot hatch, say 16v Golf or Astra GTE etc, so it won't set ya hair on fire, but it will (assuming its not a worn out old thing) still handle superbly & offer a heck of a lot of smiles per mile. An S2 is however a fair bit swifter than both the 2.5 & 2.7 in terms of top end power & mid range torque & is a significantly quicker car.
As an example get a good S2, pull out of a junction, nail it in every gear to the red, slot into say 4th & then glance at the speedo- it may not 'feel' that fast but unless the 1.6 escort you are refering to is a rare old BDA 1970s rally Escort! you will soon see the S2 is one heck of a lot quicker!
However in my opinion not many normally aspirated Porsches really do feel breathtakingly rapid on 1st experience, its living with them & seeing how capable they are in the real world that makes you appreciate what a rounded package they are.
well stated Iguana.
If you're after something like this, better get a big block, eh? You're going to have to cut and paste this link, it doesn't want to go active here.
Just paste "http//www." onto the front of the following link, and paste away.
factoryfive.com/images/videos/cobra4(1).mpeg
>> Edited by dogsharks on Tuesday 9th March 21:52
If you're after something like this, better get a big block, eh? You're going to have to cut and paste this link, it doesn't want to go active here.
Just paste "http//www." onto the front of the following link, and paste away.
factoryfive.com/images/videos/cobra4(1).mpeg
>> Edited by dogsharks on Tuesday 9th March 21:52
I hate to argue with you, but the Jag XK-E was certainly "not" considered a luxo touring car in the 1960's. It may have evolved into one, but it was about as raw a sports car as there ever was, starting with the 3.8 liter six and the crash gearbox, and evolving a bit year by year.
Those early cars were fine sports cars, but they eventually let the US smog, bumper, and headlight rules get the better of them, and the car didn't maintain it's status. When they went to the V-12, it was fast again, but at that point is was, indeed, a grand touring car.
Just a battle of semantics here, but the point is, the S2 is as fast as the highly touted early E types. Again, just trying to maintain a perspective here.
I always wanted one of those XK-Es, but somehow always ended up driving something less expensive. I'd still like one, as I've always admired that engine!!!!
regards, Dogsharks
Those early cars were fine sports cars, but they eventually let the US smog, bumper, and headlight rules get the better of them, and the car didn't maintain it's status. When they went to the V-12, it was fast again, but at that point is was, indeed, a grand touring car.
Just a battle of semantics here, but the point is, the S2 is as fast as the highly touted early E types. Again, just trying to maintain a perspective here.
I always wanted one of those XK-Es, but somehow always ended up driving something less expensive. I'd still like one, as I've always admired that engine!!!!
regards, Dogsharks
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