Brake Bleed and Calliper Rem Guide Req.
Discussion
Can anyone spare the time a write up an idiots guide to bleeding the brakes. (MK1 2000 AP Callipers non lug brake pads, 4 pot, 2 holding bolts per calliper)
I have replaced the front discs and pads, and while doing so, found that the callipers could do with a refub after a piston just popped out.
I need to take the callipers off, send them away and when I get them back I need to refit and bleed. I already have the following questions in my head.
1. How to remove the brake line from the calliper
2. How to refit the brake line, and how does this re-seal.
3. What dot brake fluid to use.
4. Tips on how to get the fluid into the reservoir without tipping it into the footwell.
5. How to bleed without a compressor and only 1 person.
Thanks in advance.
I have replaced the front discs and pads, and while doing so, found that the callipers could do with a refub after a piston just popped out.
I need to take the callipers off, send them away and when I get them back I need to refit and bleed. I already have the following questions in my head.
1. How to remove the brake line from the calliper
2. How to refit the brake line, and how does this re-seal.
3. What dot brake fluid to use.
4. Tips on how to get the fluid into the reservoir without tipping it into the footwell.
5. How to bleed without a compressor and only 1 person.
Thanks in advance.
Edited by Curdster on Thursday 6th March 22:37
1. How to remove the brake line from the caliper - Undo the Banjo Bolt
2. How to refit the brake line, and how does this re-seal. - Replace the copper washers (two per caliper either side of the banjo)
3. What dot brake fluid to use. - DOT 4
4. Tips on how to get the fluid into the reservoir without tipping it into the footwell. - Don't know but if you find a way I would love to know!
5. How to bleed without a compressor and only 1 person. - Ezzie Bleed kit from Halfords (The one that takes pressure from your tyre is quite good)
Judging by the initial question you probably wont want to go down this route but it is quite fun to do the rebuild yourself on the calipers. Burton Power sell AP rebuild kits for AP.
Graham
PS how did the piston pop out!
2. How to refit the brake line, and how does this re-seal. - Replace the copper washers (two per caliper either side of the banjo)
3. What dot brake fluid to use. - DOT 4
4. Tips on how to get the fluid into the reservoir without tipping it into the footwell. - Don't know but if you find a way I would love to know!
5. How to bleed without a compressor and only 1 person. - Ezzie Bleed kit from Halfords (The one that takes pressure from your tyre is quite good)
Judging by the initial question you probably wont want to go down this route but it is quite fun to do the rebuild yourself on the calipers. Burton Power sell AP rebuild kits for AP.
Graham
PS how did the piston pop out!
Graham. Many thanks. Since posting I just went for it. Callipers are being refurbished and I expect/hope for them back tomorrow. Bugger to get off on the near side as the allen head sockets were chewed on one bolt. ended up wellying a 15MM socket onto the nut as the Easy removal sockets could not grip. couldn't get the 15MM back off the bolt though once out!!
I bought a twin feed non return valve and two lengths of pipe so I can bleed each calliper at the same time. I am assuming I loosen both nipples on one calliper at the same time depress the brake several times until I see the fluid run through and past the valves without air I the line then re-tighten the nipples again.
To stop leakage when topping up the reservoir I used a clean 500ml plastic Coke bottle, drilled a hole in the top and squeezed some spare tubing through the hole. Filled with Brake Fluid and then ran the tube into the reservoir. No spillage, but made sure that once squeezing the Coke bottle I took out the tube from the reservoir before breathing the bottle.
Will take some pics when fully re-assembled. When funds/wife allow, will sort out the rears. Brummie on here supplied the 330mm vented discs and I have a pre order for the matching rears.
I bought a twin feed non return valve and two lengths of pipe so I can bleed each calliper at the same time. I am assuming I loosen both nipples on one calliper at the same time depress the brake several times until I see the fluid run through and past the valves without air I the line then re-tighten the nipples again.
To stop leakage when topping up the reservoir I used a clean 500ml plastic Coke bottle, drilled a hole in the top and squeezed some spare tubing through the hole. Filled with Brake Fluid and then ran the tube into the reservoir. No spillage, but made sure that once squeezing the Coke bottle I took out the tube from the reservoir before breathing the bottle.
Will take some pics when fully re-assembled. When funds/wife allow, will sort out the rears. Brummie on here supplied the 330mm vented discs and I have a pre order for the matching rears.
GrazzerDBazzer said:
5. How to bleed without a compressor and only 1 person. - Ezzie Bleed kit from Halfords (The one that takes pressure from your tyre is quite good)
I was using easy bleed from a moped inner tube with 10psi in from my footpump, i found that to be more than enough air volume and presureJust an update and a big thank you to those of you who contributed to associated threads, the project is now complete.
1. Wheels refurbed. (Leptons)
2. Discs up rated. (Brummie & Martin)
3. Callipers refurbed (Will not note as wont recommend)
4. All back together
Its taken ages as several problems along the way not to mention 1 month for the calliper refurb and then finding the missing parts once returned, and trying to get the damn things off in the first place.
Pics below and ride height looks odd as just off the jacks.
1. Wheels refurbed. (Leptons)
2. Discs up rated. (Brummie & Martin)
3. Callipers refurbed (Will not note as wont recommend)
4. All back together
Its taken ages as several problems along the way not to mention 1 month for the calliper refurb and then finding the missing parts once returned, and trying to get the damn things off in the first place.
Pics below and ride height looks odd as just off the jacks.
More help required please.
So all back together and the brakes dont work. Well they sort of do but foot on the floor and it stops but only just. Have only tried it on the drive and dare not take it on the road.
I have put through about 1 litre of brake fluid through the system and bled twice. Near side first then offside. Stil no joy. I have checked for leaks around the banjo bolts and all seems dry. I have use a tube from each nipple down to a non-return valve rather than use Easy Bleed, and have tried with tengine running and off incase there was something to do with vacumes (ignorance I know but...)
Any thoughts?
So all back together and the brakes dont work. Well they sort of do but foot on the floor and it stops but only just. Have only tried it on the drive and dare not take it on the road.
I have put through about 1 litre of brake fluid through the system and bled twice. Near side first then offside. Stil no joy. I have checked for leaks around the banjo bolts and all seems dry. I have use a tube from each nipple down to a non-return valve rather than use Easy Bleed, and have tried with tengine running and off incase there was something to do with vacumes (ignorance I know but...)
Any thoughts?
OK a couple of questions first:
- when you disconnected the calipers, what happened to the disconnected pipes and the fluid in the system? Did you block/clamp the pipes or did they remain open until you refitted the calipers?
- Did the brake reservoir ever get emptied/drained before putting new fluid in?
- How did you bleed the brakes, did you use the eesibleed or do it manually?
- Have you also bled the back brakes?
This still sounds like air in the system but would check the master cylinder behind the pedals to make sure there isn't a leak there either back onto the actuating rod or at the outlet pipe seals.
J
- when you disconnected the calipers, what happened to the disconnected pipes and the fluid in the system? Did you block/clamp the pipes or did they remain open until you refitted the calipers?
- Did the brake reservoir ever get emptied/drained before putting new fluid in?
- How did you bleed the brakes, did you use the eesibleed or do it manually?
- Have you also bled the back brakes?
This still sounds like air in the system but would check the master cylinder behind the pedals to make sure there isn't a leak there either back onto the actuating rod or at the outlet pipe seals.
J
Thanks for the reply.
1.When I took the callipers off I didn't clamp the pipe and left it strapped up right.
2.It is possible that the reservoir did get emptied at one point during the bleed process.
3. Wen bleeding I unscrewed the reservoir top, opened the bleed valves on the near side and pressed then released the brake pedal several times. I had attached to the bleed nipples two tubes with a one way valve at on end and made sure the lines were clear of air before closing the nipples again. This is what I was using > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390797459326?ssPageName=...
4. I had not even thought about bleeding the rears!!
Given the reservoir may have emptied at one point is there likely to be an air lock somewhere, and if so how do I clear it.
1.When I took the callipers off I didn't clamp the pipe and left it strapped up right.
2.It is possible that the reservoir did get emptied at one point during the bleed process.
3. Wen bleeding I unscrewed the reservoir top, opened the bleed valves on the near side and pressed then released the brake pedal several times. I had attached to the bleed nipples two tubes with a one way valve at on end and made sure the lines were clear of air before closing the nipples again. This is what I was using > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390797459326?ssPageName=...
4. I had not even thought about bleeding the rears!!
Given the reservoir may have emptied at one point is there likely to be an air lock somewhere, and if so how do I clear it.
If the reservoir got emptied, then there may be air in the rear circuits as well in which case they will need to be bled - if they have air in the the rears take up the pedal movement, reducing pressure in the front. In any event, if you haven't done this then you still have old fluid in the rear circuit.
Regarding the bleeding process, my suggestion is:
- use a length of wood braced against the seat to keep the pedal pressed down as hard as possble over night - that keeps pressure in the system and moves air further down the line.
- Then bleed each caliper one at a time, starting furthest from the master cylinder (so rear nearside first).
- For each caliper, fit the tube to the nipple but make sure that the other end is below the surface of brake fluid in the bottom of a jar (so if anything is "sucked" back into the tube it is fluid)
- loosen the nipple, press the brake pedal down smoothly, then before releasing the pedal tighten the nipple. Then take your foot off the pedal. Repeat until all air is out of all calipers. You will know this as the pedal will be hard when the nipples are all done up.
- Important - during the above, don't let the fluid in the reservior sink below half full.
Hope this helps.
J
Regarding the bleeding process, my suggestion is:
- use a length of wood braced against the seat to keep the pedal pressed down as hard as possble over night - that keeps pressure in the system and moves air further down the line.
- Then bleed each caliper one at a time, starting furthest from the master cylinder (so rear nearside first).
- For each caliper, fit the tube to the nipple but make sure that the other end is below the surface of brake fluid in the bottom of a jar (so if anything is "sucked" back into the tube it is fluid)
- loosen the nipple, press the brake pedal down smoothly, then before releasing the pedal tighten the nipple. Then take your foot off the pedal. Repeat until all air is out of all calipers. You will know this as the pedal will be hard when the nipples are all done up.
- Important - during the above, don't let the fluid in the reservior sink below half full.
Hope this helps.
J
OK so problem now resolved. After using EasyBleed and about 4 litres of brake fluid, and still no joy, I went to see Neil Garner at Neil Garner TVR to book the car in. At this point the footwell had about 1 litre of brake fluid in it and I felt that this must be a leaking master cylinder.
Neil asked several questions, including, "were the callipers on the right way round".
Upon inspection at home I found I had fitted with nipples down, assuming that was right. Swiftly changed them over, bled again and now rock solid. How stupid do I feel. The excess fluid in the footwell was caused by a cross threaded pressure bleeder cap too. About £500 saved, but I can't show my face at NG for a while now!!!
Again thanks to all who posted, and to Neil, and anyone reading this thread for the same procedure, remember, always Nipples Up!!!!
Neil asked several questions, including, "were the callipers on the right way round".
Upon inspection at home I found I had fitted with nipples down, assuming that was right. Swiftly changed them over, bled again and now rock solid. How stupid do I feel. The excess fluid in the footwell was caused by a cross threaded pressure bleeder cap too. About £500 saved, but I can't show my face at NG for a while now!!!
Again thanks to all who posted, and to Neil, and anyone reading this thread for the same procedure, remember, always Nipples Up!!!!
Edited by Curdster on Monday 5th May 23:22
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