RE: Pressure Mounts for DRLs
Discussion
MattC - I do agree with you.. I hardly ever use my A/C (and not just cos it's never warm enough), but power steering is a necessity on a lot of cars. Okay we could argue that, but there are a lot of cars my wife couldn't drive without PAS...
Fact is though that these things are largely only optional at the manufacturing stage - unless you feel the need to uncouple your power steering when you get a new car...
They're a fact of life on modern cars, so we accept them.
Fact is though that these things are largely only optional at the manufacturing stage - unless you feel the need to uncouple your power steering when you get a new car...
They're a fact of life on modern cars, so we accept them.
"... even if one is saved a year that one could be you or a member of your family."
You could do that by NOT driving on the roads. Equally lots of people die from falling off ladders do we save lives by banning them? The point about saving 1 life is utter B*llocks if it kills loads more.
The statistics I saw related only to car crashes. Seeing that Bike riders are more in danager of losing their life I believe it is best as it is now ie Bikes have their headlights on cars don't. This makes bikes more visible and attracts attention. If everybody has their lights on Bikes will disapear in the "noise". I am neither young nor drunk. The Volvo idea of sidelights is fine. Don't forget if a cars lights are on and they've left their fog lights on they will also be brightly shinning!
It will also bring on more insurance problems of "he didn't have his lights on... so its his fault that I ran into him"
NO, DDLs are fine in countries that have low daylight, but the UK is not one of these countries.
You could do that by NOT driving on the roads. Equally lots of people die from falling off ladders do we save lives by banning them? The point about saving 1 life is utter B*llocks if it kills loads more.
The statistics I saw related only to car crashes. Seeing that Bike riders are more in danager of losing their life I believe it is best as it is now ie Bikes have their headlights on cars don't. This makes bikes more visible and attracts attention. If everybody has their lights on Bikes will disapear in the "noise". I am neither young nor drunk. The Volvo idea of sidelights is fine. Don't forget if a cars lights are on and they've left their fog lights on they will also be brightly shinning!
It will also bring on more insurance problems of "he didn't have his lights on... so its his fault that I ran into him"
NO, DDLs are fine in countries that have low daylight, but the UK is not one of these countries.
NO, DDLs are fine in countries that have low daylight, but the UK is not one of these countries.
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Who are you kidding Smeagol? since when is GB one of the light countries! Have you ever driven in GB in the winter? or are you one of the Morris 1000 pale blue side light brigade! Don't forget that over 70% of the GB landmass is further north than the majority of central Europe!
!!!!!!!! Population wise that is............ No I haven't forgotton Norway!!!
Edited by JMGS4 on Monday 21st January 09:12
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Who are you kidding Smeagol? since when is GB one of the light countries! Have you ever driven in GB in the winter? or are you one of the Morris 1000 pale blue side light brigade! Don't forget that over 70% of the GB landmass is further north than the majority of central Europe!
!!!!!!!! Population wise that is............ No I haven't forgotton Norway!!! Edited by JMGS4 on Monday 21st January 09:12
On most of my cars, Smart included, running with headlights hits me for about 2mpg.
Whats 2mpg out of 50..? errr, isn't it 4% ?
I maintain that headlights will increase fuel consumption! I chose 1% as a nominal figure.
Anway, 110watts generated takes more than 110 watts to produce. I dot't know the exact science, but I have always noticed that night driving is a lot less economical.
Not that this is a good reason not to use lights !
No matter, the real problem is "noise" as some pointed out. Bloody DRL's are SUCH A BAD IDEA !!
C
Whats 2mpg out of 50..? errr, isn't it 4% ?
I maintain that headlights will increase fuel consumption! I chose 1% as a nominal figure.
Anway, 110watts generated takes more than 110 watts to produce. I dot't know the exact science, but I have always noticed that night driving is a lot less economical.
Not that this is a good reason not to use lights !
No matter, the real problem is "noise" as some pointed out. Bloody DRL's are SUCH A BAD IDEA !!
C
YES I live in the UK if you'd looked at my profile you would have found this out. Its not dark in the UK, think about it. We turn the clocks back and forward to give us extra daylight but its already starting to get lighter in morniing and at nights in January. I think this argument that we need all these extra lights is utter b@ll@cks in summer its still light to 11.oo at night. I think people that are arguing for DDL believe that they are a good idea because its currently winter. In summer you won't see any need for it at all.
If you do a 9.00 to 5.00 job and use a car for commuting only then the time that you actually drive to and from work in the dark is about 2-3 months. Seeing as this is the majority of drivers in this country I think its fairly safe to say that On average this country is fairly light. Compared to the countries where DDLs originated from.
DDLs are bad for motorists and especially bad for motorbikes. When driving from a client tonight I saw several pr@s with lights and of course their driving lights on at 3.30 when it wasn't dark and you where you could see for miles.
Edited by smeagol on Monday 21st January 17:59
If you do a 9.00 to 5.00 job and use a car for commuting only then the time that you actually drive to and from work in the dark is about 2-3 months. Seeing as this is the majority of drivers in this country I think its fairly safe to say that On average this country is fairly light. Compared to the countries where DDLs originated from.
DDLs are bad for motorists and especially bad for motorbikes. When driving from a client tonight I saw several pr@s with lights and of course their driving lights on at 3.30 when it wasn't dark and you where you could see for miles.
Edited by smeagol on Monday 21st January 17:59
Hi Carl (hertsbiker),
Have to say I agree with you not wanting the compulsory introduction of DRLs. BUT, I don’t agree with you supporting your argument with the additional cost of fuel because it is so small as to get you laughed out of court for raising it:
Quote ‘Anway, 110watts generated takes more than 110 watts to produce. I dot't know the exact science, but I have always noticed that night driving is a lot less economical.’ Quote
A large industrial alternator is 96% to 99% efficient dependent on load so make a generous assumption of say 90% for a car alternator, i.e. 10% losses. Of that, 5% are fixed losses such as friction, windage and electrical ‘iron’ losses, remaining are load dependent so say 40% of this 5% = 2% attributable to additional 110w of generation. Therefore 110w generation requires about 112w input. Not significant.
Power of Mr. Average Pistonhead’s car on the road is say a (generously low for the purposes of this example) 200bhp and average during driving is say 100 bhp cos Mr. AP doesn’t drive round with his foot on the floor all the time,
. 100 x 746 = 74,600w. Additional power requirement = 112x100/74600 in % = 0.15%. Even if you double that for Mr. Average On The Road then it still only comes to 0.3%, a very small figure when compared against the other factors influencing petrol consumption.
How have you come up with your consumption increase of 2 mpg in 50? My consumption varies between 20 mpg and 25mpg i.e. 25% depending largely on driving style and journey type – all traffic jams or steady motorway. This variable swamps the figure above and you can only control the accuracy of your test if you strictly follow conditions such as the ‘official gov’t consumption test’ used for new cars and even then I don’t suppose it will be accurate enough to reflect the impact of the lighting load. You should also remember to turn off all other variables such as heater fan, cooling fans, heated windows etc. as these are all bigger consumers than DRLs.
Have to say I agree with you not wanting the compulsory introduction of DRLs. BUT, I don’t agree with you supporting your argument with the additional cost of fuel because it is so small as to get you laughed out of court for raising it:
Quote ‘Anway, 110watts generated takes more than 110 watts to produce. I dot't know the exact science, but I have always noticed that night driving is a lot less economical.’ Quote
A large industrial alternator is 96% to 99% efficient dependent on load so make a generous assumption of say 90% for a car alternator, i.e. 10% losses. Of that, 5% are fixed losses such as friction, windage and electrical ‘iron’ losses, remaining are load dependent so say 40% of this 5% = 2% attributable to additional 110w of generation. Therefore 110w generation requires about 112w input. Not significant.
Power of Mr. Average Pistonhead’s car on the road is say a (generously low for the purposes of this example) 200bhp and average during driving is say 100 bhp cos Mr. AP doesn’t drive round with his foot on the floor all the time,
. 100 x 746 = 74,600w. Additional power requirement = 112x100/74600 in % = 0.15%. Even if you double that for Mr. Average On The Road then it still only comes to 0.3%, a very small figure when compared against the other factors influencing petrol consumption. How have you come up with your consumption increase of 2 mpg in 50? My consumption varies between 20 mpg and 25mpg i.e. 25% depending largely on driving style and journey type – all traffic jams or steady motorway. This variable swamps the figure above and you can only control the accuracy of your test if you strictly follow conditions such as the ‘official gov’t consumption test’ used for new cars and even then I don’t suppose it will be accurate enough to reflect the impact of the lighting load. You should also remember to turn off all other variables such as heater fan, cooling fans, heated windows etc. as these are all bigger consumers than DRLs.
Martvr, your logic is superb, I can't argue with the reasoning ! however, my car knocks out 55bhp on low boost, and a whopping 61bhp for 8 seconds on full boost !!!! This is of course at 5700rpm, and produces correspondingly less power down the rev range.
It just occured to me that it may infact be *winter driving* that has taken 2mpg away? - longer to warm up, etc? well, in that case you're definately right - it ain't the lights. Never thought of it like that before!
Glad you agree that DRL's a bad though.
cheers, Carl
This is of course at 5700rpm, and produces correspondingly less power down the rev range. It just occured to me that it may infact be *winter driving* that has taken 2mpg away? - longer to warm up, etc? well, in that case you're definately right - it ain't the lights. Never thought of it like that before!
Glad you agree that DRL's a bad though.
cheers, Carl
Thanks for your reply Carl.
One of my reasons (for objecting to DRLs) that may be of interest to you is the 'shadow' effect that I believe they will create in certain circumstances. Take for instance the area behind an oncoming queue of traffic on the righthandside of the road in front of your vehicle.
Behind this queue of lights could be a bus having just disgorged a pile of (unlit) pedestrians trying to cross the road. Similarly, you could be approaching a cross roads with traffic waiting to join your direction of travel from the right. Their presence is masked by the oncoming lights as their own lights are facing across your road and you would be unsighted until they turned across into your line of travel.
I'm sure there are loads more examples of this type that could occur where the use of DRLs would have a negative impact on road safety.
Cheers, Martin.
One of my reasons (for objecting to DRLs) that may be of interest to you is the 'shadow' effect that I believe they will create in certain circumstances. Take for instance the area behind an oncoming queue of traffic on the righthandside of the road in front of your vehicle.
Behind this queue of lights could be a bus having just disgorged a pile of (unlit) pedestrians trying to cross the road. Similarly, you could be approaching a cross roads with traffic waiting to join your direction of travel from the right. Their presence is masked by the oncoming lights as their own lights are facing across your road and you would be unsighted until they turned across into your line of travel.
I'm sure there are loads more examples of this type that could occur where the use of DRLs would have a negative impact on road safety.
Cheers, Martin.
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