Veg Oil in a Diesel engine. Test Results.
Discussion
In order to not break the law, I decided to take my car to a private track and test how it ran on sunflower oil (Somerfield variety). What I found was pretty interesting. It works a treat. No power loss in the top 2/3 of the rev range. Slightly down on the bottom 3rd. When cold the "clatteryness" of the diesel engine is much accentuated. This is running it from cold, under power at low revs, it clatters like a machine gun. It also has a vague "cooking" smell about it, although I was not sure whether it was leaving a "smell trail" behind, emissions were not up. I flushed the fuel lines and filled up with regular diesel and now I will be on to customs and excise to declare my first tankful and a jerry can.
It's a goer folks. Somerfields cheapest was 60p/L although I hear that cash and carry/netto/aldi knock the stuff out for as little as 20P/L. I am getting on the case pronto.
It's a goer folks. Somerfields cheapest was 60p/L although I hear that cash and carry/netto/aldi knock the stuff out for as little as 20P/L. I am getting on the case pronto.
Bearing in mind, my pug 106 is a N/A landrover/boat engine style diesel. Not a performance item.
Apart from the clatteryness when cold, there is little problem, allthough I hear it is more of a pain with turbo'd cars.
I'm not sure about the used oil, what you have to do is carry a transesterification reaction out on it so it readily dumps the water/impurities/oxidation products out.
In order to do this, you need Sodium Hydroxide (Dissolved in water), Methanol and you react "the right" amounts together to make Sodium Methanoate which you then chuck "the right amount" of that in with the oil and agitate for ages, upon standing, the oil will be the top layer which you syphon off. I'm not on that much of an eco-drive and mucking about with chemical reactions is just a pain. Although, I hear that Bio-Diesel (that product) is useable in all engines. Do a google search and all will become clear.
I figure if I shop here and there for bulk oil.
I would not consider putting even strained used oil in my car. Having said, I might have a look at some (I'll ask the pub over the road for their next batch)
Apart from the clatteryness when cold, there is little problem, allthough I hear it is more of a pain with turbo'd cars.
I'm not sure about the used oil, what you have to do is carry a transesterification reaction out on it so it readily dumps the water/impurities/oxidation products out.
In order to do this, you need Sodium Hydroxide (Dissolved in water), Methanol and you react "the right" amounts together to make Sodium Methanoate which you then chuck "the right amount" of that in with the oil and agitate for ages, upon standing, the oil will be the top layer which you syphon off. I'm not on that much of an eco-drive and mucking about with chemical reactions is just a pain. Although, I hear that Bio-Diesel (that product) is useable in all engines. Do a google search and all will become clear.
I figure if I shop here and there for bulk oil.
I would not consider putting even strained used oil in my car. Having said, I might have a look at some (I'll ask the pub over the road for their next batch)
I most certainly will be paying duty on the maximum amount I am likely to get caught with. Because I only use the car to do about 400 miles per year. So, if I am caught outside, I will say "Here's my proof officer" and then I can be on my way.
Enforcing is it is virtually impossible. Red Diesel is so residual, it is completely stupid to even use it once.
I can't see the oil separating, as it is a stable compound. It may absorb a small amount of water and form gums, but running a polar solvent down the lines should flush them out.
I need to do a whole load of experiments, including the properties of veg oil at low temperature, separation and viscosity, the nature of the resdue, finding out a cheap solvent/additive to prevent gums forming. If I get any hints of "Fuel Line Thrombosis", I will do an autopsy and work back from my findings.
It doesn't sound like there is a problem. What I may use as a cleaning fluid is hot diesel with dissolved washing powder (saturated solution). It should run fine and de-clag everything.
Enforcing is it is virtually impossible. Red Diesel is so residual, it is completely stupid to even use it once.
I can't see the oil separating, as it is a stable compound. It may absorb a small amount of water and form gums, but running a polar solvent down the lines should flush them out.
I need to do a whole load of experiments, including the properties of veg oil at low temperature, separation and viscosity, the nature of the resdue, finding out a cheap solvent/additive to prevent gums forming. If I get any hints of "Fuel Line Thrombosis", I will do an autopsy and work back from my findings.
It doesn't sound like there is a problem. What I may use as a cleaning fluid is hot diesel with dissolved washing powder (saturated solution). It should run fine and de-clag everything.
I have done allsorts of tests running everything from recovered solvents, hot paraffin, white spirit, etc in engines. I understand the veg oil has preferably to be preheated, I'm not about to muck about with big scale chemistry in order to run my car.
It seems to run OK, I will just run it until it blows up and then do an autopsy and see why. At the moment, I am avoiding "the clatter zone" and hopefully minimising my bearing loads. I may experiment with a kerosene/sunflower couple and see if that is better viscosity wise.
It seems to run OK, I will just run it until it blows up and then do an autopsy and see why. At the moment, I am avoiding "the clatter zone" and hopefully minimising my bearing loads. I may experiment with a kerosene/sunflower couple and see if that is better viscosity wise.
Alcohol, need massive tanks and weeny jets.
Brush Thinners, can't lead it, about as good as premium. 70p/L +tax
That's about it. Petrol is a hard one to replicate. I will run solvents (very reluctantly) when petrol gets too expensive.
I was wondering about modifying veg oil, but it is massively tedious/complex.
Brush Thinners, can't lead it, about as good as premium. 70p/L +tax
That's about it. Petrol is a hard one to replicate. I will run solvents (very reluctantly) when petrol gets too expensive.
I was wondering about modifying veg oil, but it is massively tedious/complex.
Pigeon said:
Alcohol, need massive tanks and weeny jets.
Gonna have to disagree here - you need great big massive jets!
love machine said:
I was wondering about modifying veg oil, but it is massively tedious/complex.
As in cracking it or similar? That would be fun...
Gonna have to double disagree, you need big orifices, small jets and massive flow
I would have thought that a transfer between a home tank and a removable car tank would have been the go. If anyone can point me in the direction of the components. Having a bit of a one off car, I wouldn't want some poncy tank. I would use cylinders.
Anyone got any links to LPG equipment sites. I would want something suitable for a blow through supercharger setup? I would be interested in basic components. LPG kits is one of the areas of fuelling I have no knowledge of.
Anyone got any links to LPG equipment sites. I would want something suitable for a blow through supercharger setup? I would be interested in basic components. LPG kits is one of the areas of fuelling I have no knowledge of.
Rationalising:-
A while ago I had to do the head gasket (1st OHC one) I reckon that something must have slipped a tooth as it was running too advanced which caused it to clatter. This was augmented by running veg oil. Now I have the timing set up properly, it is running sweet, but won't idle very well until hot. I assume this is to do with volatility, being a function of viscosity, I will be thinning is with some "Kerosene" to aid cold starting and give my injector pump a break.
Diesel engines are uninteresting and I haven't given them much thought. The timing issue is curious whether adjustments needed to be made or it was just my OHC idiocy which wrecked it. I can't get excited about cetane numbers.
Oh, and now the timing has been adjusted for it to run sweet, it cains out loads of filth under accelleration when cold and smells!!!
I could really use a U-tube viscometer if anyone has one I could borrow, to actuall pin down the temperature/viscosity properties of veg/kero mixes.
A while ago I had to do the head gasket (1st OHC one) I reckon that something must have slipped a tooth as it was running too advanced which caused it to clatter. This was augmented by running veg oil. Now I have the timing set up properly, it is running sweet, but won't idle very well until hot. I assume this is to do with volatility, being a function of viscosity, I will be thinning is with some "Kerosene" to aid cold starting and give my injector pump a break.
Diesel engines are uninteresting and I haven't given them much thought. The timing issue is curious whether adjustments needed to be made or it was just my OHC idiocy which wrecked it. I can't get excited about cetane numbers.
Oh, and now the timing has been adjusted for it to run sweet, it cains out loads of filth under accelleration when cold and smells!!!
I could really use a U-tube viscometer if anyone has one I could borrow, to actuall pin down the temperature/viscosity properties of veg/kero mixes.
I need a viscometer to get the viscosity right at low temperatures. I will run a detergent as well if there are mixing problems, which I very much doubt. It may be feasible that the oil (if used) has associated water which on mixing with mineral oils would drop its water into a gummy slop. Probably not that significant though.
The injector pump has failed due to excess viscosity due to low temperature and me caining it.
When I can be bothered, I will get a drum of Kerosene and start experimenting. I refuse to do the transesterification reaction as it is total overkill. Got to get my paperwork sorted as well as it is a tad smelly (with good injectors). I assume that having the injectors too advanced was responsible for the excess clatter and complete combustion, now it is retarded a tad, it is quiet but burns incompletely. I'm not sure what the temperature drop per degree retarded from the maximum is, I expect it to be highly significant, hence the crappy burn. I may advance the pump a notch to see what happens tomorrow, whether I can find a happy medium.
It is rather smelly, so smelly that it may be really worth having the bit of paper just in case the cops get wind of it.
The injector pump has failed due to excess viscosity due to low temperature and me caining it.
When I can be bothered, I will get a drum of Kerosene and start experimenting. I refuse to do the transesterification reaction as it is total overkill. Got to get my paperwork sorted as well as it is a tad smelly (with good injectors). I assume that having the injectors too advanced was responsible for the excess clatter and complete combustion, now it is retarded a tad, it is quiet but burns incompletely. I'm not sure what the temperature drop per degree retarded from the maximum is, I expect it to be highly significant, hence the crappy burn. I may advance the pump a notch to see what happens tomorrow, whether I can find a happy medium.
It is rather smelly, so smelly that it may be really worth having the bit of paper just in case the cops get wind of it.
I would expect that the law would manage to shag you, after all, it's motoring related!
When the insurance is up, I'm going to go limited milage as possible and disconnect the speedo and run a bike speedo.
Visualise Pug 106D, white with a few blobs of rust, 180000 miles, value about £200, kept in Fort Knox out in the safe countryside. Purely transport for when the mini is off the road.
Me 28, clean licence, etc, etc. Have always had classic cars with irrelevant NCB. So, what's my quote? £300 and then some IIRC. That is piracy, my bloody mini with unlimited milage/rollcage/etc road going go-cart loony machine only costs me £200!!!!!!!!Fully comp as well. Never used an insurance company apart to request a quote!
I have had it with people bleeding my pocket for their non-services. I'm going for the 1000 miles option and then disconnecting the speedo. I refuse to pay for this legalised piracy. Obviously I have got too much to lose so being uninsured is not an option.
When the insurance is up, I'm going to go limited milage as possible and disconnect the speedo and run a bike speedo.
Visualise Pug 106D, white with a few blobs of rust, 180000 miles, value about £200, kept in Fort Knox out in the safe countryside. Purely transport for when the mini is off the road.
Me 28, clean licence, etc, etc. Have always had classic cars with irrelevant NCB. So, what's my quote? £300 and then some IIRC. That is piracy, my bloody mini with unlimited milage/rollcage/etc road going go-cart loony machine only costs me £200!!!!!!!!Fully comp as well. Never used an insurance company apart to request a quote!
I have had it with people bleeding my pocket for their non-services. I'm going for the 1000 miles option and then disconnecting the speedo. I refuse to pay for this legalised piracy. Obviously I have got too much to lose so being uninsured is not an option.
........and then when you want to use the bastards, they shag you for not telling them you fitted chrome wheel nuts or Chinese inner tubes or fitted furry seat covers.
All I want my insurance company to do is provide me with a cheap bit of paper that I can produce when required. I fully understand they will probably not give me any money at all and want to pay an amount which takes that into consideration. I'm glad of Footman James (who insure my mini and ALSO gave me a quote of £3xx for the Pug) I don't know where they get the stats from but it needs some more thought. My mini, whilst being very well put together is a dangerous machine. The Pug is not. I am far more likely to stuff the mini.
I would seriously consider doing a scam on insurance as the piece of paper is all that I'm after and will do whatever is cheapest to stay legal. Motoring is expensive enough without paying for shareholders profits.
All I want my insurance company to do is provide me with a cheap bit of paper that I can produce when required. I fully understand they will probably not give me any money at all and want to pay an amount which takes that into consideration. I'm glad of Footman James (who insure my mini and ALSO gave me a quote of £3xx for the Pug) I don't know where they get the stats from but it needs some more thought. My mini, whilst being very well put together is a dangerous machine. The Pug is not. I am far more likely to stuff the mini.
I would seriously consider doing a scam on insurance as the piece of paper is all that I'm after and will do whatever is cheapest to stay legal. Motoring is expensive enough without paying for shareholders profits.
'A mate' is about to insure an old Suzuki LJ Jeep which is worth about nothing, has a 790cc engine and expects to miss a few heartbeats tomorrow come quote time.
Hence he has opted to run 2 speedos and a limited milage policy.
Put it this way, my Pug 106D costs more to insure than my mates 0-100 in 8 seconds Fisher Fury! There is something seriously wrong there!
They are pirates and my other mate is fully going to play them at their own game
Hence he has opted to run 2 speedos and a limited milage policy.
Put it this way, my Pug 106D costs more to insure than my mates 0-100 in 8 seconds Fisher Fury! There is something seriously wrong there!
They are pirates and my other mate is fully going to play them at their own game
Yes, it was veg oil with added white spirit (turpentine substitute) a synthetic terpene. Anyway, 
ing about with sodium methoxide is a waste of time. It's something hippies do for the environmenmenurment. Running cheap is the way to go. For this, you need Kerosene (paraffin) 85% and fresh veg oil 15%. Whack that in your tank and see how it goes.
For those in the know, kerosene is about 1/3 the price of the cheapest veg oil.
You need to pay attention to how it sounds when cold. If it knocks excessively, you need to back the injector pump timing off a bit. Slacken the bolts and move a tad and see how it goes..... Noise is the only penalty.....
ing about with sodium methoxide is a waste of time. It's something hippies do for the environmenmenurment. Running cheap is the way to go. For this, you need Kerosene (paraffin) 85% and fresh veg oil 15%. Whack that in your tank and see how it goes.For those in the know, kerosene is about 1/3 the price of the cheapest veg oil.
You need to pay attention to how it sounds when cold. If it knocks excessively, you need to back the injector pump timing off a bit. Slacken the bolts and move a tad and see how it goes..... Noise is the only penalty.....
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