Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
Of course they will. I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had. I've no reason to believe it'll going to suddenly become My Hyde and let me down.
Well to counter that my brother had a 7yr old Mercedes EV (hybrid) and its been the most unreliable car he's ever had. And yes, it suddenly became mr Hyde and let him down overnight never to drive again - That was the best part of coming up for a year now, £8k+ later and it still doesn't work and he's got the choice of sinking yet more thousands or selling it for scrap. About 6mths ago WBAC offered him a very poor, but worth considering bid on it in non working state, now they wont bid on exactly the same params. Go figure...SpeckledJim said:
Octavarium said:
SpeckledJim said:
Of course they will. I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had. I've no reason to believe it'll going to suddenly become My Hyde and let me down.
An EV is hugely more simple, and works in a much less damaging environment, than a modern ICE wrapped in layers of emissions controlling technology.
Battery degradation is 'a thing' but mine is the Model T Ford of EVs. A new one today is giant steps in advance of mine.
And a new one in 10 years time will presumably be a giant advancement over today's models. So again, why would anyone want to buy a 10 year old EV ?An EV is hugely more simple, and works in a much less damaging environment, than a modern ICE wrapped in layers of emissions controlling technology.
Battery degradation is 'a thing' but mine is the Model T Ford of EVs. A new one today is giant steps in advance of mine.
...don't have very much money.
AdamV12V said:
SpeckledJim said:
Of course they will. I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had. I've no reason to believe it'll going to suddenly become My Hyde and let me down.
Well to counter that my brother had a 7yr old Mercedes EV (hybrid) and its been the most unreliable car he's ever had. And yes, it suddenly became mr Hyde and let him down overnight never to drive again - That was the best part of coming up for a year now, £8k+ later and it still doesn't work and he's got the choice of sinking yet more thousands or selling it for scrap. About 6mths ago WBAC offered him a very poor, but worth considering bid on it in non working state, now they wont bid on exactly the same params. Go figure...
t car. Mercedes do make a lot of disappointingly st cars. But a hybrid is not an EV. It's a somehow-even-more-complicated ICE. We've seen Porsche make an absolute hash of a real EV, granted. Anyone can build a s
t car. Of any power type. Octavarium said:
And some people (probably quite a lot), currently don't, and never will have the luxury of being able to plug an EV into a socket overnight. Unless of course we want cables trailed across pavements or draping down from flats.
This ^^8% of the UK housing stock is leasehold and I would warrant that the vast majority of those are faced with either impossible hurdles to overcome to install an EV charger in their home carparking space, or extra ordinary costs imposed by the management company or by the national grid to upgrade infrastructure. Many blocks of flats have private substations and the cost of upgrades to those falls on the leaseholders wanting the EV's not the national grid, unlike suburban resi areas where the grid will step in and pay for an upgrade with a station nears capacity.
Landlords renting their property out are also unlikely to want to run to the expense of installing a EV charge point in their property for zero additional rent until such point as renting out a home without one becomes impossible - many many years away yet thankfully I suspect.
Add onto the the freehold housing where people have no parking other that on street (as an example the endless rows and rows of back to back terrace houses found in the less affluent areas of every single city in the UK, and you're into a huge chunk of the national housing stock for whom installing an EV charger is near on if not actually impossible.
SpeckledJim said:
But a hybrid is not an EV. It's a somehow-even-more-complicated ICE.
To be clear it was the battery that failed, not the ICE part of the hybrid setup. But the battery dying completely disabled the car, it could not even be started up. It had to be dragged onto the back of a low loader and taken away, never to run since.AdamV12V said:
Octavarium said:
And some people (probably quite a lot), currently don't, and never will have the luxury of being able to plug an EV into a socket overnight. Unless of course we want cables trailed across pavements or draping down from flats.
This ^^8% of the UK housing stock is leasehold and I would warrant that the vast majority of those are faced with either impossible hurdles to overcome to install an EV charger in their home carparking space, or extra ordinary costs imposed by the management company or by the national grid to upgrade infrastructure. Many blocks of flats have private substations and the cost of upgrades to those falls on the leaseholders wanting the EV's not the national grid, unlike suburban resi areas where the grid will step in and pay for an upgrade with a station nears capacity.
Landlords renting their property out are also unlikely to want to run to the expense of installing a EV charge point in their property for zero additional rent until such point as renting out a home without one becomes impossible - many many years away yet thankfully I suspect.
Add onto the the freehold housing where people have no parking other that on street (as an example the endless rows and rows of back to back terrace houses found in the less affluent areas of every single city in the UK, and you're into a huge chunk of the national housing stock for whom installing an EV charger is near on if not actually impossible.
(talking averages now)
If you can charge at home, then that's the ideal. You'll need to charge your car for c.300 hours a year on a slow domestic charger. That's 6 hours a week.
If you can't manage that, then you'll need to use a charger at work, or the shops, or your nan's, or en route, or wherever else you go with your car.
A 150 kW charger will serve the average motorist with a week's worth of sparks in 15 minutes.
15. minutes.
This envisaged requirement for a charger for every car is for the birds. We can discuss how 15 minutes a week for the average motorist is impossible if you like, but let's base the conversation on the reality of the problem.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Tuesday 18th April 11:27
Octavarium said:
SpeckledJim said:
Octavarium said:
SpeckledJim said:
Of course they will. I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had. I've no reason to believe it'll going to suddenly become My Hyde and let me down.
An EV is hugely more simple, and works in a much less damaging environment, than a modern ICE wrapped in layers of emissions controlling technology.
Battery degradation is 'a thing' but mine is the Model T Ford of EVs. A new one today is giant steps in advance of mine.
And a new one in 10 years time will presumably be a giant advancement over today's models. So again, why would anyone want to buy a 10 year old EV ?An EV is hugely more simple, and works in a much less damaging environment, than a modern ICE wrapped in layers of emissions controlling technology.
Battery degradation is 'a thing' but mine is the Model T Ford of EVs. A new one today is giant steps in advance of mine.
...don't have very much money.
Where have you got the idea of charging cables draping down from flats!? Like some kind of high-voltage May Pole?
SpeckledJim said:
It doesn't need charging overnight. At current charge rates it doesn't need charging for very long at all.
Where have you got the idea of charging cables draping down from flats!? Like some kind of high-voltage May Pole?
Just trying to make the point that a great many people are unable to charge their vehicles at home. And incidentally, I am retired so can’t charge at work, my local shops don’t have charging capabilities, and I am an orphan. Where have you got the idea of charging cables draping down from flats!? Like some kind of high-voltage May Pole?
Please understand that I and many others simply do not want to be forced into having something that we simply do not want.
Octavarium said:
SpeckledJim said:
It doesn't need charging overnight. At current charge rates it doesn't need charging for very long at all.
Where have you got the idea of charging cables draping down from flats!? Like some kind of high-voltage May Pole?
Just trying to make the point that a great many people are unable to charge their vehicles at home. And incidentally, I am retired so can’t charge at work, my local shops don’t have charging capabilities, and I am an orphan. Where have you got the idea of charging cables draping down from flats!? Like some kind of high-voltage May Pole?
Please understand that I and many others simply do not want to be forced into having something that we simply do not want.
You've got this far without being able to 'recharge' your internal combustion engined car at home. So has everyone else.
I get that you're unhappy about it. I also get that you haven't really understood it.
quench said:
SpeckledJim said:
I get that you're unhappy about it. I also get that you haven't really understood it.
Ah yes, the perennial fallback for those encountering resistance when they try to force things on others:"You just don't understand it".
Tackle the situation as it stands. Not as we might like to imagine it, in a rush to be cross about it.
Surveying the public charging infrastructure in 2023 and proclaiming that it is entirely insufficient for requirements that won't exist until around 2040 is pointless.
If it works for you, then get one, if you like. If it doesn't, then don't. Just ignore the whole thing.
SpeckledJim said:
He's talking about hanging cables from flats.
Tackle the situation as it stands. Not as we might like to imagine it, in a rush to be cross about it.
Surveying the public charging infrastructure in 2023 and proclaiming that it is entirely insufficient for requirements that won't exist until around 2040 is pointless.
If it works for you, then get one, if you like. If it doesn't, then don't. Just ignore the whole thing.
Ignore the whole thing ? What a ridiculous thing to say. We are being forced down this route whether we like it or not. Tackle the situation as it stands. Not as we might like to imagine it, in a rush to be cross about it.
Surveying the public charging infrastructure in 2023 and proclaiming that it is entirely insufficient for requirements that won't exist until around 2040 is pointless.
If it works for you, then get one, if you like. If it doesn't, then don't. Just ignore the whole thing.
You are correct that the public charging infrastructure of 2023 would be insufficient in 2040. But from what I read and hear, the public charging infrastructure of 2023 is insufficient for 2023. Or maybe I’m reading and listening to the wrong things. I’m sure you’ll put me right.
SpeckledJim said:
I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had.
I have a 23 year old IC that has been the most reliable car I've ever had.Please post here again Jim, in 2039 to tell us how well your EV is going then.
However, we all know the answer to that already.
It would long ago have been scrapped and replaced by at least one newly manufactured car, involving ever more pollution.
2030 and 2035 are simply a politicians' dreams. Talk to a chartered distribution electrical engineer, to find out the practical reality.
The present UK infrastucture requires a complete upgrade, to cope with the anticipated increase in demand.
Octavarium said:
SpeckledJim said:
He's talking about hanging cables from flats.
Tackle the situation as it stands. Not as we might like to imagine it, in a rush to be cross about it.
Surveying the public charging infrastructure in 2023 and proclaiming that it is entirely insufficient for requirements that won't exist until around 2040 is pointless.
If it works for you, then get one, if you like. If it doesn't, then don't. Just ignore the whole thing.
Ignore the whole thing ? What a ridiculous thing to say. We are being forced down this route whether we like it or not. Tackle the situation as it stands. Not as we might like to imagine it, in a rush to be cross about it.
Surveying the public charging infrastructure in 2023 and proclaiming that it is entirely insufficient for requirements that won't exist until around 2040 is pointless.
If it works for you, then get one, if you like. If it doesn't, then don't. Just ignore the whole thing.
You are correct that the public charging infrastructure of 2023 would be insufficient in 2040. But from what I read and hear, the public charging infrastructure of 2023 is insufficient for 2023. Or maybe I’m reading and listening to the wrong things. I’m sure you’ll put me right.
If that's not you, then yes, you're absolutely expected to just ignore the whole thing.
What are you actually cross about? Being given nearly two decades notice that powertrains on new cars will be changing from something harmful and a bit rubbish to something cleaner, simpler, more robust, renewable and beneficial to UK national security interests. But that you can ignore it and keep running an ICE if you like.
It's hardly the biggest drama is it?
(Message brought to you via a cheap and super fast fibre broadband infrastructure that didn't exist nearly two decades ago...)
Life, uh, finds a way
/Malcolm
Dewi 2 said:
SpeckledJim said:
I have a 7 year old EV that has been the most reliable car I've ever had.
I have a 23 year old IC that has been the most reliable car I've ever had.Please post here again Jim, in 2039 to tell us how well your EV is going then.
However, we all know the answer to that already.
It would long ago have been scrapped and replaced by at least one newly manufactured car, involving ever more pollution.
2030 and 2035 are simply a politicians' dreams. Talk to a chartered distribution electrical engineer, to find out the practical reality.
The present UK infrastucture requires a complete upgrade, to cope with the anticipated increase in demand.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-ne...
Don't take my word for it - please have your chartered engineer correct the National Grid's homework.
We scrap good cars because we're poseurs, addicted to new stuff. That's not going to change when we all have EV's. But the overall pollution will be much lower. If you don't care about that, that's fine. But it's still 'the case'.
AdamV12V said:
Well to counter that my brother had a 7yr old Mercedes EV (hybrid) and its been the most unreliable car he's ever had. And yes, it suddenly became mr Hyde and let him down overnight never to drive again - That was the best part of coming up for a year now, £8k+ later and it still doesn't work and he's got the choice of sinking yet more thousands or selling it for scrap. About 6mths ago WBAC offered him a very poor, but worth considering bid on it in non working state, now they wont bid on exactly the same params. Go figure...
I am grateful Adam, for your original post a while back, describing your brother's dilemma.
It was the second premature failure of the same model, that I had heard about.
What I had not realised before was that a hybrid, still with a wonderful IC engine under the bonnet, cannot be driven after suffering hybrid battery failure. I expect someone with the right technical knowledge, could bypass that restriction and make the car work IC only.
It has persuaded me to leave EVs and PHEVs to others. Mercedes are expected to announce their final IC version of their next generation E class next Tuesday. I will take a look.
M1AGM said:
Well one thing is for sure reading some of the opinions here, Aston Martin most certainly will not survive the electric vehicle era if many of those contributing posters are supposed to be their customers.
Indeed, exactly! Back on the actual thread topic finally!Except for the one sole person supporting the pro EV side, who ironically is the only person posting who hasn't actually ever bought an Aston Martin!
Point proven, thread closed!
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff