New partner confirmed
Discussion
Speedraser said:
About the Vantage market and pricing.
It seems that the Vantage market is not new to Aston Martin.........
What this means for tomorrow I don't know, but the V8 Vantage did not take AM into a "cheaper" market, just a market that they hadn't played in for a while.
Very interesting analysis, with quite surprising results.It seems that the Vantage market is not new to Aston Martin.........
What this means for tomorrow I don't know, but the V8 Vantage did not take AM into a "cheaper" market, just a market that they hadn't played in for a while.
Perhaps they just seemed so expensive at the time. Was the DB4 priced at getting on for double that of an Jaguar E Type?
Olympus said:
.... along with re-establishing a proper environment of better retained value for secondhand cars.
Possibly not for pre-owned buyers. Finding a 3 to 4 year old cosseted (most are) Aston Martin, provides the wonderful opportunity of buying a 'new' car at half price.Edited by Jon39 on Monday 10th December 11:00
Jon39 said:
Very interesting analysis, with quite surprising results.
Perhaps they just seemed so expensive at the time. Was the DB4 priced at getting on for double that of a Jaguar E Type?
Exactly. Take into account the price of a house and the average wage and they were still astonishingly expensive and only for the elite I expect Perhaps they just seemed so expensive at the time. Was the DB4 priced at getting on for double that of a Jaguar E Type?
MaverickV12 said:
Does any one know how many
V8V are sold every year ?
V12V every year?
DB9 every year ?
DBS every year ?
Projections for Vanquish every year?
Apart from the fact you'd like someone to spend the morning googling information for you... why on earth would you want to know or care?V8V are sold every year ?
V12V every year?
DB9 every year ?
DBS every year ?
Projections for Vanquish every year?
You do ask do ask some strange questions chap...
BTW, whereabouts are you in Bristol? We still keep a place just off Whiteadies road
Olympus said:
I've posted my thoughts on the AMOC Froum but still could not find the courage to say what BamfordMike has said about the segments AML occupies. Full marks to him for having the audacity and guts to do so.
AML's issue is exactly that; the V12 cars are slowly drifting into the V8 territory of other manufacturers. This is the first problem to solve along with re-establishing a proper environment of better retained value for secondhand cars.
I've always thought that the Gaydon cars represent very good value, at least in the context of exotics. The V8V offers essentially the performance of a 911 Carrera (even the 991S with a manual 'box isn't much quicker than a 4.7L V8V with a manual) for not that much more money (especially now), yet the Aston is in a different league with respect to craftsmanship, materials quality, rarity, and just plain desirability. Yet some say it's overpriced AML's issue is exactly that; the V12 cars are slowly drifting into the V8 territory of other manufacturers. This is the first problem to solve along with re-establishing a proper environment of better retained value for secondhand cars.
The DB9 compares favorably with the Conti GT, for example, and the Aston isn't a VW (or anything other than an Aston) under the skin. To me, the DB9, especially in its very latest form, is FAR more desirable than the Conti.
People moan about the new Vanquish having "only" 565 hp when the F12 offers 730. Aside from whether one may think 730 hp is just ridiculous (how much power can a road car utilize?), the Vanquish is far less expensive -- the two cars are not direct competitors. Even though many people in that market may consider both cars, why do people expect the much less costly (though still expensive) Vanquish to offer as much power?
I do not agree on Bentley...my comment in AMOC was that the pace with which the Conti moves away from the Phaeton is rapid. In any case, they are two different schools of thought.
The issue with the "other" comparison between the F12 and the new Vanquish is relative also to the remainder of their respective platforms. It isn't only horsepower that matters; the Aventador and F12 ridicule all 1 mill + contraptions by being practically equally accomplished at half or less of the price. So, the segment the old-school Vanquish was in has moved significantly upwards in every single sector.
The critical question is one of re-establishing focus 'cause in trying to do everything from Cygnet to One-77, some of the substance was lost and the competition ain't stupid...
The issue with the "other" comparison between the F12 and the new Vanquish is relative also to the remainder of their respective platforms. It isn't only horsepower that matters; the Aventador and F12 ridicule all 1 mill + contraptions by being practically equally accomplished at half or less of the price. So, the segment the old-school Vanquish was in has moved significantly upwards in every single sector.
The critical question is one of re-establishing focus 'cause in trying to do everything from Cygnet to One-77, some of the substance was lost and the competition ain't stupid...
Edited by Olympus on Tuesday 11th December 07:20
I don't think that the actual amount of horsepower matters too much - it is still much more than what is needed for daily driving. The main issue that Aston faces in my view, is that there is nothing that lures its existing customers into a new Aston these days because they are not moving the game significantly. You have to cater for your existing customers. They are the most loyal and with everything being equal should be the ones that provide the manufacturer with the basic income on which to build future sales. It is much more difficult to get new customers outside the ranks. I have had my V12V for 3 years now and that would normally be the time where I would look at a new car. However nothing has changed at Aston so there is really no compelling reason to change. Look at Ferrari. They moved the game significantly going from the F430 to the F458 and will do it again from the 599 to the F12. 80 percent of their existing customers will probably change up. Porsche does the same and even Lambo has succeeded creating long waiting lists for its Avantador from existing LP 560 owners. You can do a revival once as Aston did with the VH platform but they need to move the game up again because as the previous poster said all their competitors have done so already.
Edited by hornbaek on Tuesday 11th December 12:24
hornbaek said:
I don't think that the actual amount of horsepower matters too much - it is still much more than what is needed for daily driving. The main issue that Aston faces in my view, is that there is nothing that lures its existing customers into a new Aston these days because they are not moving the game significantly. You have to cater for your existing customers. They are the most loyal and with everything being equal should be the ones that provide the manufacturer with the basic income on which to build future sales. It is much more difficult to get new customers outside the ranks. I have had my V12V for 3 years now and that would normally be the time where I would look at a new car. However nothing has changed at Aston so there is really no compelling reason to change. Look at Ferrari. They moved the game significantly going from the F430 to the F456 and will do it again from the 599 to the F12. 80 percent of their existing customers will probably change up. Porsche does the same and even Lambo has succeeded creating long waiting lists for its Avantador from existing LP 560 owners. You can do a revival once as Aston did with the VH platform but they need to move the game up again because as the previous poster said all their competitors have done so already.
At the same time though Bentley haven't exactly moved their game on with the new Conti GT. Maserati are due a replacement for the GranTurismo too. I'd say they're closer rivals to Aston than Ferrari/Lambo, but I do accept your point Speedraser said:
The DB9 compares favorably with the Conti GT, for example, and the Aston isn't a VW (or anything other than an Aston) under the skin
I love British cars , but British cars are not British any more 
. The Range Rover, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston. I say Aston as, correct me if I am wrong, but the owners are American / Middle East / Italian. The engines are German (they are made in Cologne, yes?) and I am guessing that the whole car is made elsewhere and imported. When I looked at the book, "The Aston Martin Journal", the section about the factory does not show a production line of manufacturing, but more an assembly line.Now I may be talking out of my arse
(and I'm sure that you fellow PH'ers will tell me), but where are the gear boxes made? The seats?, suspension, drive train? Where does the leather come from?I have a feeling that if looked into, the car is merely a hybrid of parts from all over Europe (and other parts of the world).
The only truly british part of the car is the name, "Aston Martin".
Where do the parts come from?
While I agree that the Conti series has been developed quite a lot from the original Phaeton over time, it is, IMO, very heavily (pun sort of intended) compromised by having been built on a shared platform to begin with – look at its layout. If not for the platform sharing, I can’t imagine it would have the huge and heavy engine hung way out at the very nose of the car. The entire engine is mounted ahead of the front axle line. It is a tremendously heavy (2.5 tons) car with a huge portion of that weight in the nose – which can be clearly felt from behind the wheel. This may be less of an issue for a Bentley than it would be for an Aston Martin, but the point is that platform sharing results in a car much more like other cars – and therefore less distinctive -- than would otherwise be the case.
As far as the new V8 in the Conti: it’s an Audi engine. An Audi engine is a Bentley is a shame, regardless of how effective it may be. It’s a very nice car (I’ve driven it, and like it). For me, however, a significant aspect of the specialness and the desirability is lost as a result.
As far as development is concerned, can anyone opine (credibly) as to whether the Conti’s platform has been developed more or less than the VH "platform"?
As far as the new V8 in the Conti: it’s an Audi engine. An Audi engine is a Bentley is a shame, regardless of how effective it may be. It’s a very nice car (I’ve driven it, and like it). For me, however, a significant aspect of the specialness and the desirability is lost as a result.
As far as development is concerned, can anyone opine (credibly) as to whether the Conti’s platform has been developed more or less than the VH "platform"?
hornbaek said:
Well you say that about Bentley but they have introduced the V8 engine range and the interior is class leading ( I bet that they even offer a DAB radio ). Maserati have the benefit of the Ferrari/Fiat family so expect a new double clutch gearbox and new engines.
And we know that a Maserati SUV that is a Jeep Grand Cherokee under the skin is on its way...Just getting back to basics for a minute, it sounds like Am could end up just being a
badge engineered Merc. Even if I could afford a new AM I certainly wouldn't be interested
in owning an Aston with a German engine in it. One of the main attractions of AM ownership
for me is the fact that they are British. I know I 'only' own a DB7VV but at least the engine
was hand built in Britain by Cosworth.
badge engineered Merc. Even if I could afford a new AM I certainly wouldn't be interested
in owning an Aston with a German engine in it. One of the main attractions of AM ownership
for me is the fact that they are British. I know I 'only' own a DB7VV but at least the engine
was hand built in Britain by Cosworth.
ds2000 said:
Well unless I'm mistaken all the current engines come from Cologne.....
www.astonmartins.com/factory/amepds2000 said:
Well unless I'm mistaken all the current engines come from Cologne.....
Indeed they do, that's where AM's V12 engine plant is. I personally have no issue with where components of the car come from, that's what globalisation is. Morgan, that last bastion of Britishness, don't build their own engines and use the BMW V8 in the Aero. We're silly to pretend otherwise. The AM factory is in Britain, that's the best you can hope for and that's what makes it British.Sticking a highly modified Merc V8 into the VH platform would still be an Aston. (Just like the highly modifed Jag-based engine in the current V8 chassis).
Putting a pair of AM wings on an SL series does not an Aston make, but I am pretty sure that Daimler-Benz know this
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff