B&O sound upgrade
Discussion
Ex Boy Racer said:
Just trying to finalise my spec for the Vantage V12 Roadster.
I love a good sound system, however the B&O is a pretty hefty premium. I am hoping to hear one soon but wondering what your opinion is. Is it worth the money?
I've got it in mine, it is pretty special. And I love the tweeters that pop up and down on the top of the dash I love a good sound system, however the B&O is a pretty hefty premium. I am hoping to hear one soon but wondering what your opinion is. Is it worth the money?
Would I pay what is it? £5k extra if I was speccing up a new car? I don't think so, for the amount of miles I'd do I'd spend too much of my time with it off and listening to the sound of the car. I'd probably just go for the premium sound in that scenario. But I'm very glad I waited for a used car with it fitted though.I have it in my Rapide (but I didn't spec that), it's a good sound system but not so far ahead of the Premium that I would rush to spec it on a new car (and haven't on my GT8)
I've not driven a roadster, but I'd also picture that some of the benefit of finer sound quality might also be lost, particularly with the roof down? But maybe Ian or similar can comment on that
I've not driven a roadster, but I'd also picture that some of the benefit of finer sound quality might also be lost, particularly with the roof down? But maybe Ian or similar can comment on that
I'm just finalising the spec for my roadster as well and it's a definite for me. I know it's expensive but I won't go through this process again so it's going to be my spec, exactly as I want it. Both of my previous Vantages had premium audio and I've heard the B&O but some time apart so it's hard to compare them with the world of other variables involved. However, the B&O did impress me a lot and having bought some for home recently I'm hugely impressed with it (but I'm no expert in sound quality).
Eta - if you're worried about value for money for the B&O, don't even ask about some of the Q options for the rest of the car!
Eta - if you're worried about value for money for the B&O, don't even ask about some of the Q options for the rest of the car!
Edited by C997 on Sunday 15th January 02:06
I have it for my car - V8GT. This model had special matching color detail with the stiching which made my choice obvious.
Needless to say I have the full bore B&O for my house as well... and I love it!
B&O is often about design as much as it is sound. It gets a lot of poopoo by the 'audiophile' community...but I don't care.
Have a listen to it in the car on LOUD the difference is there for me with at least 320 files connected through cable. I like the base and the theatre; though the upper end may be too sharp for some.
Needless to say I have the full bore B&O for my house as well... and I love it!
B&O is often about design as much as it is sound. It gets a lot of poopoo by the 'audiophile' community...but I don't care.
Have a listen to it in the car on LOUD the difference is there for me with at least 320 files connected through cable. I like the base and the theatre; though the upper end may be too sharp for some.
I have B&O in mine, it sounds fab and the system is specially tuned for the Roadster/Volante version and I believe it adapts the sound automatically when the top is open or closed.
To be fair I very rarely use the sound system in my car, I prefer to listen to the organic sound of a NA V12, my girlfriend has no such sensibility for engine sound and switches the sound system on.
And I also have everything B&O at home, it's expensive but they last for years and the sound quality is unbelievable.
I didn't buy my car new but I would still tick the option, my two must have options were B&O and the lightweight carbon bucket seats when I was looking at a car to buy.
So essential no but nice to have, certainly.
To be fair I very rarely use the sound system in my car, I prefer to listen to the organic sound of a NA V12, my girlfriend has no such sensibility for engine sound and switches the sound system on.
And I also have everything B&O at home, it's expensive but they last for years and the sound quality is unbelievable.
I didn't buy my car new but I would still tick the option, my two must have options were B&O and the lightweight carbon bucket seats when I was looking at a car to buy.
So essential no but nice to have, certainly.
Bit out of my league, commenting in the AM forum, but if installations are consistent across makes, I would say go for it.
Have it in my TTS Roadster and is amazing - clear and crisp, no distortion, no chavvy thumping bass. The better the quality of the source, the better it sounds - noticeable even in a moving car with roof down, so must be good ;-)
Have it in my TTS Roadster and is amazing - clear and crisp, no distortion, no chavvy thumping bass. The better the quality of the source, the better it sounds - noticeable even in a moving car with roof down, so must be good ;-)
JonChalk said:
Bit out of my league, commenting in the AM forum, but if installations are consistent across makes, I would say go for it.
Have it in my TTS Roadster and is amazing - clear and crisp, no distortion, no chavvy thumping bass. The better the quality of the source, the better it sounds - noticeable even in a moving car with roof down, so must be good ;-)
Welcome, I've just been reading the Autocar review of the Audi S5 and the author says it costs £750 for the B and O upgrade. It's £5000 in the Aston if I read correctly. I doubt its a much better system so perhaps Aston just like to make your eyes water! I would pay quite a lot just to watch the tweeters move up and down but like many others I listen to the exhaust with the valves open as my main listening choice ( at least on short journeys, music on long).Have it in my TTS Roadster and is amazing - clear and crisp, no distortion, no chavvy thumping bass. The better the quality of the source, the better it sounds - noticeable even in a moving car with roof down, so must be good ;-)
I have it on my DBS but it was standard.
It is a little bit showy, as the tweeters rise up but the sound is pretty good - better than the premium Alpine I had in the last DB9.
The only other point is that non-B&O DBS are slightly harder to sell and trade at a very small discount. If quick resale is important then tick the box (but you'll do your nuts on the depreciation).
It is a little bit showy, as the tweeters rise up but the sound is pretty good - better than the premium Alpine I had in the last DB9.
The only other point is that non-B&O DBS are slightly harder to sell and trade at a very small discount. If quick resale is important then tick the box (but you'll do your nuts on the depreciation).
I should preface this with a couple of titbits of info. I was one of those IASCA champs and became an SQ judge.
If you want to skip the geeky stuff, here's the nub.
Premium sounds as good. B&O has better tweeter placement.
I put them both through a spectrum analyser. B&O not better.
Neither sound great. B&O looks good. Form over function.
Would I spec it? No. I'd get premium and if it was that important, improve it with quality aftermarket parts.
Ok, I fancy a rant. Bear with me.
There are a number of aspects to a good sound in a car. The most difficult to achieve but the one that makes the biggest difference is imagery. That's the ability of the listener to determine the physical location of the sound in relation to the sound stage.
If you have hifi at home, you know this one. Remember when they first brought out stereo? That.
It's been around a while and we've even built in a few more channels with our home theatre. But for the sake of keeping it simple, let's talk 2 channel stereo. One left speaker and one right speaker. You position them equally in distance from you, sit and listen. Easy right?
So why, in all that's holy, does some fkwit decide to put two midrange woofers in the middle and point them out?
WTF! No, let me go on. Try this sh it at home. Get your left and right speaker cabinets and put them directly in front of you in the middle of the room. Put them back to back. The left speaker pointing left and the right speaker pointing right. Now take a few steps back and listen. Sh ite right?
So why on earth did they put the mid driver in the centre console pointing out? Because they didn't want to put them in the kick panels or doors.
Even now when you look st the DB11 speaker position, you can see that it's not been given any thought from an audio expert apart from the component supply from the B&O parts bin. Probably bits left over from the Audi A8.
Thing is, and this is what frustrates me, it is easy to get it right.
There are a few tricks/rules when trying to create good imagery in a compromising environment. One is 'equal path length'. This is the distance to your ears from the left and right channel. If the paths are equal, good image. If not, you get bias.
In a car, you're screwed. Ish....
it's all about ratios. Ok, experiment time. Two speakers, 3 feet apart. Stand one foot in front of the right speaker.
Play music.
Not stereo right? All you get is the dominant right channel.
Ok, step back 6 feet.
Play music.
Better right? Of course it is. Have you moved the speakers? No, you haven't. But what you have done is change the ratio of the distance of left and right.
So, again, why have they put the 4" mids in the middle of the fricken' door?
That's one bonus of the B&O is that the wide range tweeter is as far away from the occupants of the cabin as possible. This gets the best image you can.
So, the B&O option.
Teeeters are a little harsh but detailed. I kind of like them but a good 1" silk dome will outperform them.
Passenger seat gets some diffusion but driver gets a reasonable sound stage.
They could really benefit from some equalisation. No eq. on the B&O.
Mid-bass has ZERO image, is diffused and difficult to locate (other than the draft on my trouser leg) and lacks any authority/attack. Gar-bage.
Sub is strong, authoritive and doesn't fart. That's a technical term for wind noise from a ported enclosure.
The crossover on the sub is a little high for my tastes as I can tell where the sub is as I can hear it. Lower frequency cut offs prevent this. If you can't pin-point the sub, your brain puts it where the music is coming from. I assume that the higher crossover point is to make up for the incredibly shi tty mid-bass.
So, all in all it could be really good but the biggest fkwit was the guy who put the above average kit in the above average car is a retarded way.
I better quit there. Cool!
If you want to skip the geeky stuff, here's the nub.
Premium sounds as good. B&O has better tweeter placement.
I put them both through a spectrum analyser. B&O not better.
Neither sound great. B&O looks good. Form over function.
Would I spec it? No. I'd get premium and if it was that important, improve it with quality aftermarket parts.
Ok, I fancy a rant. Bear with me.
There are a number of aspects to a good sound in a car. The most difficult to achieve but the one that makes the biggest difference is imagery. That's the ability of the listener to determine the physical location of the sound in relation to the sound stage.
If you have hifi at home, you know this one. Remember when they first brought out stereo? That.
It's been around a while and we've even built in a few more channels with our home theatre. But for the sake of keeping it simple, let's talk 2 channel stereo. One left speaker and one right speaker. You position them equally in distance from you, sit and listen. Easy right?
So why, in all that's holy, does some fkwit decide to put two midrange woofers in the middle and point them out?
WTF! No, let me go on. Try this sh it at home. Get your left and right speaker cabinets and put them directly in front of you in the middle of the room. Put them back to back. The left speaker pointing left and the right speaker pointing right. Now take a few steps back and listen. Sh ite right?
So why on earth did they put the mid driver in the centre console pointing out? Because they didn't want to put them in the kick panels or doors.
Even now when you look st the DB11 speaker position, you can see that it's not been given any thought from an audio expert apart from the component supply from the B&O parts bin. Probably bits left over from the Audi A8.
Thing is, and this is what frustrates me, it is easy to get it right.
There are a few tricks/rules when trying to create good imagery in a compromising environment. One is 'equal path length'. This is the distance to your ears from the left and right channel. If the paths are equal, good image. If not, you get bias.
In a car, you're screwed. Ish....
it's all about ratios. Ok, experiment time. Two speakers, 3 feet apart. Stand one foot in front of the right speaker.
Play music.
Not stereo right? All you get is the dominant right channel.
Ok, step back 6 feet.
Play music.
Better right? Of course it is. Have you moved the speakers? No, you haven't. But what you have done is change the ratio of the distance of left and right.
So, again, why have they put the 4" mids in the middle of the fricken' door?
That's one bonus of the B&O is that the wide range tweeter is as far away from the occupants of the cabin as possible. This gets the best image you can.
So, the B&O option.
Teeeters are a little harsh but detailed. I kind of like them but a good 1" silk dome will outperform them.
Passenger seat gets some diffusion but driver gets a reasonable sound stage.
They could really benefit from some equalisation. No eq. on the B&O.
Mid-bass has ZERO image, is diffused and difficult to locate (other than the draft on my trouser leg) and lacks any authority/attack. Gar-bage.
Sub is strong, authoritive and doesn't fart. That's a technical term for wind noise from a ported enclosure.
The crossover on the sub is a little high for my tastes as I can tell where the sub is as I can hear it. Lower frequency cut offs prevent this. If you can't pin-point the sub, your brain puts it where the music is coming from. I assume that the higher crossover point is to make up for the incredibly shi tty mid-bass.
So, all in all it could be really good but the biggest fkwit was the guy who put the above average kit in the above average car is a retarded way.
I better quit there. Cool!
Edited by divetheworld on Sunday 15th January 10:47
Edited by divetheworld on Sunday 15th January 10:48
Lol - I didn't want to write the essay that divetheworld did, but agree wholeheartedly. The B&O sound is good but not great, but then I think that applies to all car audio, the environment is just too compromised, if I want to listen to music I'll listen at home, in the car I'll listen to the engine (and radio4/5)
And without wishing to go off-topic it's also why I wouldn't have B&O at home, its a lot of style over substance at a high price. If you don't believe me go to a good independent hi-fi shop and listen to a decent set of separates running through some electrostatic speakers. Now that gives you imagery, it's like the artist is in the room with you in a good set-up!
So the only reason I would spec B&O would be if I were worried about it affecting resale. But would it be compensated by being able to take £3-4K off the asking price (the saving by not speccing in the first place?). I'm not convinced so I haven't specced on the GT8 (oh and it also weighs a lot compared with premium, one reason not to spec)
And without wishing to go off-topic it's also why I wouldn't have B&O at home, its a lot of style over substance at a high price. If you don't believe me go to a good independent hi-fi shop and listen to a decent set of separates running through some electrostatic speakers. Now that gives you imagery, it's like the artist is in the room with you in a good set-up!
So the only reason I would spec B&O would be if I were worried about it affecting resale. But would it be compensated by being able to take £3-4K off the asking price (the saving by not speccing in the first place?). I'm not convinced so I haven't specced on the GT8 (oh and it also weighs a lot compared with premium, one reason not to spec)
RobDown said:
Lol - I didn't want to write the essay that divetheworld did, but agree wholeheartedly. The B&O sound is good but not great, but then I think that applies to all car audio, the environment is just too compromised, if I want to listen to music I'll listen at home, in the car I'll listen to the engine (and radio4/5)
And without wishing to go off-topic it's also why I wouldn't have B&O at home, its a lot of style over substance at a high price. If you don't believe me go to a good independent hi-fi shop and listen to a decent set of separates running through some electrostatic speakers. Now that gives you imagery, it's like the artist is in the room with you in a good set-up!
So the only reason I would spec B&O would be if I were worried about it affecting resale. But would it be compensated by being able to take £3-4K off the asking price (the saving by not speccing in the first place?). I'm not convinced so I haven't specced on the GT8 (oh and it also weighs a lot compared with premium, one reason not to spec)
Agree with all that.... except B&O is now £6k more than the cost of Premium (well it was on the V12VS anyway)! Very nice to have on a used car at the same price, but no way I would want to spend that to spec it new. For a third of that cost you could get an invisible aftermarket upgrade to the speakers and amps which would sound twice as good.And without wishing to go off-topic it's also why I wouldn't have B&O at home, its a lot of style over substance at a high price. If you don't believe me go to a good independent hi-fi shop and listen to a decent set of separates running through some electrostatic speakers. Now that gives you imagery, it's like the artist is in the room with you in a good set-up!
So the only reason I would spec B&O would be if I were worried about it affecting resale. But would it be compensated by being able to take £3-4K off the asking price (the saving by not speccing in the first place?). I'm not convinced so I haven't specced on the GT8 (oh and it also weighs a lot compared with premium, one reason not to spec)
My current DBS has B&O (as standard), and it sounds good (for a factory system). It is much better than the A5/S5/RS5 B&O system (I drove that car with B&O for several years) and more comparable with the B&O system in the A8/S8.
Before I had the Premium (Alpine) system in my V8V and for me it sounded even little better, mainly because of less limiters/DSPs/etc than the B&O setup. The Alpine/Premium Aston system has more dynamic bandwidth (less compression/limiters), as a result you can also put it too loud (which in the B&O is almost impossible, since all DSPs / limiters prevent anything going too loud).
From an audio/sound perspective, I would therefore go for the Premium/Alpine, especially since the premium they ask for the B&O. Of course from design perspective, the B&O looks great!
A DBS without B&O probably would be rare, but a V8V / V12V is less of an issue for resale I think.
Before I had the Premium (Alpine) system in my V8V and for me it sounded even little better, mainly because of less limiters/DSPs/etc than the B&O setup. The Alpine/Premium Aston system has more dynamic bandwidth (less compression/limiters), as a result you can also put it too loud (which in the B&O is almost impossible, since all DSPs / limiters prevent anything going too loud).
From an audio/sound perspective, I would therefore go for the Premium/Alpine, especially since the premium they ask for the B&O. Of course from design perspective, the B&O looks great!
A DBS without B&O probably would be rare, but a V8V / V12V is less of an issue for resale I think.
I would look at the options you have specified so far for your new V12 Roadster.
For instance, you might have specified the Carbon Fibre bonnet louvres as an option (is it £2K now?) instead of the bonnet meshes.
Ordering the car with the B&O and keeping the meshes means a £3K extra now and retro fit the Carbon Louvres yourself later on at your leisure.
Then sell or keep the mesh louvres.
The point is there are some options that can be easily done after the factory build, CF Louvres, CF Strakes, CF rear light inserts etc.
B&O cannot be retro fitted.
If you go for the B&O you can always switch it off to listen to the V12 engine.
If you do not go for B&O you cannot switch it on, and will always ponder "what if"
For instance, you might have specified the Carbon Fibre bonnet louvres as an option (is it £2K now?) instead of the bonnet meshes.
Ordering the car with the B&O and keeping the meshes means a £3K extra now and retro fit the Carbon Louvres yourself later on at your leisure.
Then sell or keep the mesh louvres.
The point is there are some options that can be easily done after the factory build, CF Louvres, CF Strakes, CF rear light inserts etc.
B&O cannot be retro fitted.
If you go for the B&O you can always switch it off to listen to the V12 engine.
If you do not go for B&O you cannot switch it on, and will always ponder "what if"
Manwhoneverwas said:
I would look at the options you have specified so far for your new V12 Roadster.
For instance, you might have specified the Carbon Fibre bonnet louvres as an option (is it £2K now?) instead of the bonnet meshes.
Ordering the car with the B&O and keeping the meshes means a £3K extra now and retro fit the Carbon Louvres yourself later on at your leisure.
Then sell or keep the mesh louvres.
The point is there are some options that can be easily done after the factory build, CF Louvres, CF Strakes, CF rear light inserts etc.
B&O cannot be retro fitted.
If you go for the B&O you can always switch it off to listen to the V12 engine.
If you do not go for B&O you cannot switch it on, and will always ponder "what if"
one of several reasons it can't be retro fitted is the lump for the amp in the boot (on the roadster) which severely compromises putting certain bags in there - it's one reason I won't spec B&OFor instance, you might have specified the Carbon Fibre bonnet louvres as an option (is it £2K now?) instead of the bonnet meshes.
Ordering the car with the B&O and keeping the meshes means a £3K extra now and retro fit the Carbon Louvres yourself later on at your leisure.
Then sell or keep the mesh louvres.
The point is there are some options that can be easily done after the factory build, CF Louvres, CF Strakes, CF rear light inserts etc.
B&O cannot be retro fitted.
If you go for the B&O you can always switch it off to listen to the V12 engine.
If you do not go for B&O you cannot switch it on, and will always ponder "what if"
Some good points but I doubt AM are serious about sound quality ( of the stereo). If they were they would have a system with real DSP/ multiEQ tuned specifically for the car. Have had a rather high end studio monitor quality system at home, which indeed I spent hours setting up for best imaging and soundstage And then added an Audyssey XT32 pre/pro which just effortlessly improved the sound. The RR'S Meridian system does that.
1) Why would you turn on the sound system ever with such an engine underneath the bonnet?
2) I believe the B&O might help to quicker sell it as a used car but I'm 100% sure you will never see your investment back, maybe 10% of it
3) The speakers look cool
So I see only the coolness factor and a certain "I want to have my car fully loaded" factor to go for it. If these two are good enough to spend a few k GBP, that's up to you. If I would be in the situation, I would be tempted to go for it despite the lack of logic and despite it being a rip-off by AML.
2) I believe the B&O might help to quicker sell it as a used car but I'm 100% sure you will never see your investment back, maybe 10% of it
3) The speakers look cool
So I see only the coolness factor and a certain "I want to have my car fully loaded" factor to go for it. If these two are good enough to spend a few k GBP, that's up to you. If I would be in the situation, I would be tempted to go for it despite the lack of logic and despite it being a rip-off by AML.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff