Z3 Specifc questions
Discussion
Just had my first look round a Z3 as a possible replacement for my Mazda soonish.
This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape? So likelt different to the earlier ones ill probsbly be looking at. Any other differences?
- Seats. The seats are awful. Very nice leather, and electric. But totally flat and slippery. Are all the seats of the same design on the earlier cars? I've seen the the different shaped ones in the late cars.
- Throttle. Are these fly-by wire? The throttle appeared to stick, as if there was no return spring, or it was heavily damped. If lifting off quick your foot comes off the pedal as it wont return or spring up fast enough!?
- There was a faint, but noticeable tapping coming from the top end on the intake side. Presumably this is where the Vanos gear is. I need to gen-up on what years come with what, as I understand there are differencse, single vanos, double vanos etc? Perhapd someone can fill me in. I'm only interested in the 2.8's BTW.
Are they always audible from the top end? Being fair, it was freezing, the car was clap cold and hadnt run for a few days probably, and presumably vanos runs off oil pressure.
Just in case anyones wondering though, that particular car is very tidy, and if I had that money I'd be taking a second look.
I'll be spending more like £3k, on a private, earlier 2.8 car.
This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape? So likelt different to the earlier ones ill probsbly be looking at. Any other differences?
- Seats. The seats are awful. Very nice leather, and electric. But totally flat and slippery. Are all the seats of the same design on the earlier cars? I've seen the the different shaped ones in the late cars.
- Throttle. Are these fly-by wire? The throttle appeared to stick, as if there was no return spring, or it was heavily damped. If lifting off quick your foot comes off the pedal as it wont return or spring up fast enough!?
- There was a faint, but noticeable tapping coming from the top end on the intake side. Presumably this is where the Vanos gear is. I need to gen-up on what years come with what, as I understand there are differencse, single vanos, double vanos etc? Perhapd someone can fill me in. I'm only interested in the 2.8's BTW.
Are they always audible from the top end? Being fair, it was freezing, the car was clap cold and hadnt run for a few days probably, and presumably vanos runs off oil pressure.
Just in case anyones wondering though, that particular car is very tidy, and if I had that money I'd be taking a second look.
I'll be spending more like £3k, on a private, earlier 2.8 car.
snotrag said:
Just had my first look round a Z3 as a possible replacement for my Mazda soonish.
This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape?
Yes, that is a "facelift" car (although the "face" wasn't changed, the rear end was altered only to give a more masculine look to the rear end).This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape?
snotrag said:
So likelt different to the earlier ones ill probsbly be looking at. Any other differences?
There are no other differences.sno- trag said:
Seats. The seats are awful. Very nice leather, and electric. But totally flat and slippery. Are all the seats of the same design on the earlier cars? I've seen the the different shaped ones in the late cars.
I believe the roadster seats for the standard Z3's are all the same (waits to be informed otherwise). The Z3M roadsters and coupes came with sports seats that offered better lateral support. sno- trag said:
Throttle. Are these fly-by wire? The throttle appeared to stick, as if there was no return spring, or it was heavily damped. If lifting off quick your foot comes off the pedal as it wont return or spring up fast enough!?
The throttle is cable operated, not fly by wire. These are known to become sticky if they're not lubricated once in a while. Also, it's not unheard of for the accelerator pedal to also become sticky and require lubricating. (Be aware that BMW accelerators tend to have a heavy feel to them compared to other makes, so even after lubricating the throttle cable and pedal linkage, the pedal may still feel heavy. It's something that you get used to with driving the car). sno- trag said:
There was a faint, but noticeable tapping coming from the top end on the intake side.
This will be an M52 2.8 engine (M52TU28 variant). The chances are, the noise you're hearing is the injectors ticking as they close. This noise is common on BMW injection engines and is not normally a sign of anything wrong unless the noise is seriously loud.These engines can also suffer from what is known as "lazy lifters". The tappets on these engines are hydraulically operated and self adjusting. Sometimes the lifters are slow to operate due to the age/condition/viscosity of the oil and can make a loud ticking noise.
(Strangely enough, My 328i sport suffers "lazy lifter" noise after an oil service but settles down after a days running. I queried this with BMW who said it's quite normal and should settle down. If it doesn't settle after a day then there may be a problem).
sno- trag said:
Presumably this is where the Vanos gear is. I need to gen-up on what years come with what, as I understand there are differencse, single vanos, double vanos etc? Perhapd someone can fill me in. I'm only interested in the 2.8's BTW. Are they always audible from the top end? Being fair, it was freezing, the car was clap cold and hadnt run for a few days probably, and presumably vanos runs off oil pressure.
The VANOS is mounted on the front end of the engine and when it goes wrong it sounds like ball bearings rattling in a can. If the car hasn't been run for a while then the oil will have drained away and so the VANOS could sound noisy for the first start up but should quieten down after @ 30 second to a minute. If the noise does not go away then the seals in the VANOS have most likely perished. VANOS noise will be at the front end of the engine though, not the top.The engine in this car (M52TU 2.8) has a double VANOS unit, varying the timing on both the inlet and exhaust camshafts:
(Wide cover on the front of the engine, next to radiator cap [LHD car shown] ).
The earlier 2.8's (M52B28) had single VANOS units that only operated on the inlet camshaft:
(Stepped cover on front of the engine, next to radiator cap [LHD car shown] )
(RHD cars have the radiator cap on the opposite side)
See here for VANOS info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VANOS
Thats grand, I'm well used to sticking lifters and slightly tappy engines ( and how t ocure it) just didnt know if it applied to these. Could well have been injectors though - at least ill know what to listen for next time.
I'm glad you say its a cable throttle too, as that explains it perfectly, i was worried it was a symptom of a d-b-w throttle.
I guess the seats would just have to be solved with some aftermarket seatsm, which is easy enough, ot fitting something out of another car.
I'm glad you say its a cable throttle too, as that explains it perfectly, i was worried it was a symptom of a d-b-w throttle.
I guess the seats would just have to be solved with some aftermarket seatsm, which is easy enough, ot fitting something out of another car.
snotrag said:
I guess the seats would just have to be solved with some aftermarket seatsm, which is easy enough, ot fitting something out of another car.
Best bet would be some Z3 sports seats (as in smartypants post above), from a breakers yard ( http://www.fabdirect.com / http://www.quarrymotors.co.uk/home.html , for example)Aha I see, it's an Arselift, got it!
Thanks for the information - I have plenty more questions now!
Been doing more reading, its becoming more appealing, and there appears to be a half decent selection available in the £3k price range. The looks are growing, my worries about the handling are being quelled (still yet to drive one though).
Compared to the MX-5's I've had (aswell as the other cars I'm considering) they often appear to be lower(ish) mileage too, I suppose as a more expensive car when new they have been used more as Sunday/Second/Wifes shopping cars.
I do much prefer the looks of the facelifted rear, but as its not really a mechanical update, just aesthetic, I wouldnt go out my way to find one. The other thing I noticed is the difference in the interior, with nerwer cars having an updated climate system, again not something I'm really fussed about. I actually liked the interior, it was more like my Mk1 MX5 than the Mk2 - very square, and retro which I like, and all the flat surfaces and trims would make it really easy to re-trim and customise a bit.
Do all 2.8's have A/C or was it just an option?
It also appears that theres a few variations, with firstly the double Vanos being added, THEN the arselift, THEN the 3.0 models, giving quite a few combinations of engine/spec. From reading it actually looks to me like an earlier single vanos car is the best option for someone like me who is likely to indulge in a fair amount of DIY tuning.
Wheels - most 2.8's seem to come with the 'star' type alloys, are these 16"?
I much prefer the slightly softer, more rounded and 'plain' 5 spoke design I've seen, I presume these are 17" and an option probably?
Are the wheels and tyres staggered size?
Finally for today, how much of an improvement can be made to the shift? I have to accept that practically ANY car is not going to have a shift as good as an MX-5, but can the Zeds be improved as it felt a bit floppy - theres a few short-shift kits I've seen, not totally convinced they can rescue it?
Thanks for the information - I have plenty more questions now!
Been doing more reading, its becoming more appealing, and there appears to be a half decent selection available in the £3k price range. The looks are growing, my worries about the handling are being quelled (still yet to drive one though).
Compared to the MX-5's I've had (aswell as the other cars I'm considering) they often appear to be lower(ish) mileage too, I suppose as a more expensive car when new they have been used more as Sunday/Second/Wifes shopping cars.
I do much prefer the looks of the facelifted rear, but as its not really a mechanical update, just aesthetic, I wouldnt go out my way to find one. The other thing I noticed is the difference in the interior, with nerwer cars having an updated climate system, again not something I'm really fussed about. I actually liked the interior, it was more like my Mk1 MX5 than the Mk2 - very square, and retro which I like, and all the flat surfaces and trims would make it really easy to re-trim and customise a bit.
Do all 2.8's have A/C or was it just an option?
It also appears that theres a few variations, with firstly the double Vanos being added, THEN the arselift, THEN the 3.0 models, giving quite a few combinations of engine/spec. From reading it actually looks to me like an earlier single vanos car is the best option for someone like me who is likely to indulge in a fair amount of DIY tuning.
Wheels - most 2.8's seem to come with the 'star' type alloys, are these 16"?
I much prefer the slightly softer, more rounded and 'plain' 5 spoke design I've seen, I presume these are 17" and an option probably?
Are the wheels and tyres staggered size?
Finally for today, how much of an improvement can be made to the shift? I have to accept that practically ANY car is not going to have a shift as good as an MX-5, but can the Zeds be improved as it felt a bit floppy - theres a few short-shift kits I've seen, not totally convinced they can rescue it?
Very useful, thanks. I'd found the zroadster.net and .org sites, slightly odd having two the same name but different.
R.E. handling - it will be my only car. I've done about 40'000 miles in my MX-5s, all my commuting, long motorway drives etc. The flightiness is something I AM prepared to compromise on - because in return you get that wonderful engine and a car that should be much more suited to longer drives etc. I like the idea of it being a bit 'old school', or basic. Thats not a bad thing at all in my book.
The wheels I'd seen where neither of those, they are a really basic looking 5 spoke, look very much like the TSW 14" wheels standard on UK MX-5's. Must be an option i bet.
Anyway - the chunky, tall profile tyres were another thing I liked about that car I'd seen.
Compared to nearly all moder BMW's these days the Z3 also appears NOT to be ridiculously over-tyred especially at the back, which is great.
One more thing - neither of the Forums mentioned seem to have particularly many cars advertised in their classified sections. Other than PH, Autotrader, Ebay etc, are there any other sites (maybe Z3 or BMW specific?) where I might add into my favourites as I start to look out for a suitable car in the next few months?
R.E. handling - it will be my only car. I've done about 40'000 miles in my MX-5s, all my commuting, long motorway drives etc. The flightiness is something I AM prepared to compromise on - because in return you get that wonderful engine and a car that should be much more suited to longer drives etc. I like the idea of it being a bit 'old school', or basic. Thats not a bad thing at all in my book.
The wheels I'd seen where neither of those, they are a really basic looking 5 spoke, look very much like the TSW 14" wheels standard on UK MX-5's. Must be an option i bet.
Anyway - the chunky, tall profile tyres were another thing I liked about that car I'd seen.
Compared to nearly all moder BMW's these days the Z3 also appears NOT to be ridiculously over-tyred especially at the back, which is great.
One more thing - neither of the Forums mentioned seem to have particularly many cars advertised in their classified sections. Other than PH, Autotrader, Ebay etc, are there any other sites (maybe Z3 or BMW specific?) where I might add into my favourites as I start to look out for a suitable car in the next few months?
One VERY important thing to check when buying a Z3, especially the more powerful models is the floor in the boot.
It cracks due to torque not being applied evenly - the diff is only hanging on a s
tty hanger on one side - and just spot welds.
BMW used to replace the whole floor, but apparently they don't do it anymore and it's a major job. I've just had the whole boot in my Z3-M re-welded and reinforced. And the worst thing is sometime you can't even see the cracks because it happens under the rust protection on welds. Just listen to any strange knocks and squeeks from the boot area.
It cracks due to torque not being applied evenly - the diff is only hanging on a s
tty hanger on one side - and just spot welds.BMW used to replace the whole floor, but apparently they don't do it anymore and it's a major job. I've just had the whole boot in my Z3-M re-welded and reinforced. And the worst thing is sometime you can't even see the cracks because it happens under the rust protection on welds. Just listen to any strange knocks and squeeks from the boot area.
I've read about the boot floor issues, not sure prevalent it is though or whether theres a bit of internet sensationalism. I'd also heard that it mainly affects 3.2's but that makes sense really if its caused by torque twisting the diff. If thats the only really big, common issue then thats pretty good to be honest, as its something that can be checked for.
What are these like for rust?
One thing I'm very keen to avoid on my next car is rust, as its a constant battle with any older Japanese car and a lot of the other cars I'm considering.
I know that the E30 particularly, and E36/34 cars also suffer badly, but theres not much mention of it when looking into Z3's. They appear to be Galvanized too which is good. A car with good bodywork is a must, as I can repair and replace just about anything mechanical/electrical myself, but bodywork, rust, knackered paint etc is where you start having to pay people to sort it which is not an option.
What are these like for rust?
One thing I'm very keen to avoid on my next car is rust, as its a constant battle with any older Japanese car and a lot of the other cars I'm considering.
I know that the E30 particularly, and E36/34 cars also suffer badly, but theres not much mention of it when looking into Z3's. They appear to be Galvanized too which is good. A car with good bodywork is a must, as I can repair and replace just about anything mechanical/electrical myself, but bodywork, rust, knackered paint etc is where you start having to pay people to sort it which is not an option.
Watching this thread with interest as I am still torn between one of these and an MX5
Swaying more towards this tbh, I just prefer the looks and can't beat a straight 6 sound
I noticed in some research that the 2.0 and 2.2 are more powerful than I thought, are these just 4 pots though?
Swaying more towards this tbh, I just prefer the looks and can't beat a straight 6 sound
I noticed in some research that the 2.0 and 2.2 are more powerful than I thought, are these just 4 pots though?
Ah cheers, thats good news, I have seen one near me, but having the same budget as the OP its just slightly above what I can afford unless I can get a deal done
I miss my E30 so so much that the thought of buying another Jap 4 pot doesnt excite me, even though the 5 is meant to be the better drivers car, I find myself drawn towards the Z
I miss my E30 so so much that the thought of buying another Jap 4 pot doesnt excite me, even though the 5 is meant to be the better drivers car, I find myself drawn towards the Z
Aiming to see 3 at the weekend
A 99 2.0 with 91k.....in budget
A 99 2.8 with 80k.....in budget
A 51 2.2 with 67k.....over budget 4k
Leaning towards the 2.8 at the moment as I reckon I could get it under budget and it would be single vanos so could do M50 conversion straight away
The 2.2 is tempting though but would require a proper deal
A 99 2.0 with 91k.....in budget
A 99 2.8 with 80k.....in budget
A 51 2.2 with 67k.....over budget 4k
Leaning towards the 2.8 at the moment as I reckon I could get it under budget and it would be single vanos so could do M50 conversion straight away
The 2.2 is tempting though but would require a proper deal
Its all sounding quite positive so far.
I'm going this weekend to meet a chap from the Zroadster forum who lives nearby, who's offered to show me round his early 2.8 and If I'm lucky might get a ride out.
There's some cracking looking cars on eBay at the moment too at the £3k mark... just need to wait a few months unfortunately!
I'm going this weekend to meet a chap from the Zroadster forum who lives nearby, who's offered to show me round his early 2.8 and If I'm lucky might get a ride out.
There's some cracking looking cars on eBay at the moment too at the £3k mark... just need to wait a few months unfortunately!
Boot floor worth checking on all cars. Lots of handling fixes known too, like m3 tca bushes, front and rear strut braces, tyres that match and suit the car, etc. An enthusiast owned car wil no doubt save you some brass and be a better starting point. They do have the old E30 rear axle, do handling isnt vice free but they have lots of old fashioned mechanical grip and an LSD (2.8 up).
Early 2.8 is easy to upgrade with an inlet manifold swap.
Early 2.8 is easy to upgrade with an inlet manifold swap.
I bought a 2000 Z3 3 litre in October with 32k on the clock. It's my first convertible and I am quite pleased with it. I love the old school feel to it and the lazy nature of the engine. I had an Alfa 3.0 GTV previously which has a sweeter sound but seemed more highly strung. Of the two I prefer the Alfa engine. Nonetheless I can't wait for the summer when I can put some miles on the Z3. I did not test drive any other variants but my brother-in-law, who had a 2.2, and drove mine and noticed a big difference.
This is the one I am looking at this weekend
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-2-8-M-Sport-3-Own...
Thoughts?
This will be the later engine is that correct? So M52? Would this mean the M50 conversion is out of the question?
ETA
The other one I am tempted by, lower miles but more owners and no mention of S/H
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-Z-Series-Z3-Roads...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-2-8-M-Sport-3-Own...
Thoughts?
This will be the later engine is that correct? So M52? Would this mean the M50 conversion is out of the question?
ETA
The other one I am tempted by, lower miles but more owners and no mention of S/H
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z3-Z-Series-Z3-Roads...
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 3rd February 09:48
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