Z3 Specifc questions
Discussion
Just had my first look round a Z3 as a possible replacement for my Mazda soonish.
This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape? So likelt different to the earlier ones ill probsbly be looking at. Any other differences?
- Seats. The seats are awful. Very nice leather, and electric. But totally flat and slippery. Are all the seats of the same design on the earlier cars? I've seen the the different shaped ones in the late cars.
- Throttle. Are these fly-by wire? The throttle appeared to stick, as if there was no return spring, or it was heavily damped. If lifting off quick your foot comes off the pedal as it wont return or spring up fast enough!?
- There was a faint, but noticeable tapping coming from the top end on the intake side. Presumably this is where the Vanos gear is. I need to gen-up on what years come with what, as I understand there are differencse, single vanos, double vanos etc? Perhapd someone can fill me in. I'm only interested in the 2.8's BTW.
Are they always audible from the top end? Being fair, it was freezing, the car was clap cold and hadnt run for a few days probably, and presumably vanos runs off oil pressure.
Just in case anyones wondering though, that particular car is very tidy, and if I had that money I'd be taking a second look.
I'll be spending more like £3k, on a private, earlier 2.8 car.
This one - http://www.glasshoughtoncarsales.co.uk/used/BMW/Z3...
Which is a bit out of my budget really but was nearby enough to nose around. I was surprised how much I liked it actually!
Can someone confirm -
- This is a facelifted car, yes? Different rear light shape? So likelt different to the earlier ones ill probsbly be looking at. Any other differences?
- Seats. The seats are awful. Very nice leather, and electric. But totally flat and slippery. Are all the seats of the same design on the earlier cars? I've seen the the different shaped ones in the late cars.
- Throttle. Are these fly-by wire? The throttle appeared to stick, as if there was no return spring, or it was heavily damped. If lifting off quick your foot comes off the pedal as it wont return or spring up fast enough!?
- There was a faint, but noticeable tapping coming from the top end on the intake side. Presumably this is where the Vanos gear is. I need to gen-up on what years come with what, as I understand there are differencse, single vanos, double vanos etc? Perhapd someone can fill me in. I'm only interested in the 2.8's BTW.
Are they always audible from the top end? Being fair, it was freezing, the car was clap cold and hadnt run for a few days probably, and presumably vanos runs off oil pressure.
Just in case anyones wondering though, that particular car is very tidy, and if I had that money I'd be taking a second look.
I'll be spending more like £3k, on a private, earlier 2.8 car.
Thats grand, I'm well used to sticking lifters and slightly tappy engines ( and how t ocure it) just didnt know if it applied to these. Could well have been injectors though - at least ill know what to listen for next time.
I'm glad you say its a cable throttle too, as that explains it perfectly, i was worried it was a symptom of a d-b-w throttle.
I guess the seats would just have to be solved with some aftermarket seatsm, which is easy enough, ot fitting something out of another car.
I'm glad you say its a cable throttle too, as that explains it perfectly, i was worried it was a symptom of a d-b-w throttle.
I guess the seats would just have to be solved with some aftermarket seatsm, which is easy enough, ot fitting something out of another car.
Aha I see, it's an Arselift, got it!
Thanks for the information - I have plenty more questions now!
Been doing more reading, its becoming more appealing, and there appears to be a half decent selection available in the £3k price range. The looks are growing, my worries about the handling are being quelled (still yet to drive one though).
Compared to the MX-5's I've had (aswell as the other cars I'm considering) they often appear to be lower(ish) mileage too, I suppose as a more expensive car when new they have been used more as Sunday/Second/Wifes shopping cars.
I do much prefer the looks of the facelifted rear, but as its not really a mechanical update, just aesthetic, I wouldnt go out my way to find one. The other thing I noticed is the difference in the interior, with nerwer cars having an updated climate system, again not something I'm really fussed about. I actually liked the interior, it was more like my Mk1 MX5 than the Mk2 - very square, and retro which I like, and all the flat surfaces and trims would make it really easy to re-trim and customise a bit.
Do all 2.8's have A/C or was it just an option?
It also appears that theres a few variations, with firstly the double Vanos being added, THEN the arselift, THEN the 3.0 models, giving quite a few combinations of engine/spec. From reading it actually looks to me like an earlier single vanos car is the best option for someone like me who is likely to indulge in a fair amount of DIY tuning.
Wheels - most 2.8's seem to come with the 'star' type alloys, are these 16"?
I much prefer the slightly softer, more rounded and 'plain' 5 spoke design I've seen, I presume these are 17" and an option probably?
Are the wheels and tyres staggered size?
Finally for today, how much of an improvement can be made to the shift? I have to accept that practically ANY car is not going to have a shift as good as an MX-5, but can the Zeds be improved as it felt a bit floppy - theres a few short-shift kits I've seen, not totally convinced they can rescue it?
Thanks for the information - I have plenty more questions now!
Been doing more reading, its becoming more appealing, and there appears to be a half decent selection available in the £3k price range. The looks are growing, my worries about the handling are being quelled (still yet to drive one though).
Compared to the MX-5's I've had (aswell as the other cars I'm considering) they often appear to be lower(ish) mileage too, I suppose as a more expensive car when new they have been used more as Sunday/Second/Wifes shopping cars.
I do much prefer the looks of the facelifted rear, but as its not really a mechanical update, just aesthetic, I wouldnt go out my way to find one. The other thing I noticed is the difference in the interior, with nerwer cars having an updated climate system, again not something I'm really fussed about. I actually liked the interior, it was more like my Mk1 MX5 than the Mk2 - very square, and retro which I like, and all the flat surfaces and trims would make it really easy to re-trim and customise a bit.
Do all 2.8's have A/C or was it just an option?
It also appears that theres a few variations, with firstly the double Vanos being added, THEN the arselift, THEN the 3.0 models, giving quite a few combinations of engine/spec. From reading it actually looks to me like an earlier single vanos car is the best option for someone like me who is likely to indulge in a fair amount of DIY tuning.
Wheels - most 2.8's seem to come with the 'star' type alloys, are these 16"?
I much prefer the slightly softer, more rounded and 'plain' 5 spoke design I've seen, I presume these are 17" and an option probably?
Are the wheels and tyres staggered size?
Finally for today, how much of an improvement can be made to the shift? I have to accept that practically ANY car is not going to have a shift as good as an MX-5, but can the Zeds be improved as it felt a bit floppy - theres a few short-shift kits I've seen, not totally convinced they can rescue it?
Very useful, thanks. I'd found the zroadster.net and .org sites, slightly odd having two the same name but different.
R.E. handling - it will be my only car. I've done about 40'000 miles in my MX-5s, all my commuting, long motorway drives etc. The flightiness is something I AM prepared to compromise on - because in return you get that wonderful engine and a car that should be much more suited to longer drives etc. I like the idea of it being a bit 'old school', or basic. Thats not a bad thing at all in my book.
The wheels I'd seen where neither of those, they are a really basic looking 5 spoke, look very much like the TSW 14" wheels standard on UK MX-5's. Must be an option i bet.
Anyway - the chunky, tall profile tyres were another thing I liked about that car I'd seen.
Compared to nearly all moder BMW's these days the Z3 also appears NOT to be ridiculously over-tyred especially at the back, which is great.
One more thing - neither of the Forums mentioned seem to have particularly many cars advertised in their classified sections. Other than PH, Autotrader, Ebay etc, are there any other sites (maybe Z3 or BMW specific?) where I might add into my favourites as I start to look out for a suitable car in the next few months?
R.E. handling - it will be my only car. I've done about 40'000 miles in my MX-5s, all my commuting, long motorway drives etc. The flightiness is something I AM prepared to compromise on - because in return you get that wonderful engine and a car that should be much more suited to longer drives etc. I like the idea of it being a bit 'old school', or basic. Thats not a bad thing at all in my book.
The wheels I'd seen where neither of those, they are a really basic looking 5 spoke, look very much like the TSW 14" wheels standard on UK MX-5's. Must be an option i bet.
Anyway - the chunky, tall profile tyres were another thing I liked about that car I'd seen.
Compared to nearly all moder BMW's these days the Z3 also appears NOT to be ridiculously over-tyred especially at the back, which is great.
One more thing - neither of the Forums mentioned seem to have particularly many cars advertised in their classified sections. Other than PH, Autotrader, Ebay etc, are there any other sites (maybe Z3 or BMW specific?) where I might add into my favourites as I start to look out for a suitable car in the next few months?
I've read about the boot floor issues, not sure prevalent it is though or whether theres a bit of internet sensationalism. I'd also heard that it mainly affects 3.2's but that makes sense really if its caused by torque twisting the diff. If thats the only really big, common issue then thats pretty good to be honest, as its something that can be checked for.
What are these like for rust?
One thing I'm very keen to avoid on my next car is rust, as its a constant battle with any older Japanese car and a lot of the other cars I'm considering.
I know that the E30 particularly, and E36/34 cars also suffer badly, but theres not much mention of it when looking into Z3's. They appear to be Galvanized too which is good. A car with good bodywork is a must, as I can repair and replace just about anything mechanical/electrical myself, but bodywork, rust, knackered paint etc is where you start having to pay people to sort it which is not an option.
What are these like for rust?
One thing I'm very keen to avoid on my next car is rust, as its a constant battle with any older Japanese car and a lot of the other cars I'm considering.
I know that the E30 particularly, and E36/34 cars also suffer badly, but theres not much mention of it when looking into Z3's. They appear to be Galvanized too which is good. A car with good bodywork is a must, as I can repair and replace just about anything mechanical/electrical myself, but bodywork, rust, knackered paint etc is where you start having to pay people to sort it which is not an option.
Its all sounding quite positive so far.
I'm going this weekend to meet a chap from the Zroadster forum who lives nearby, who's offered to show me round his early 2.8 and If I'm lucky might get a ride out.
There's some cracking looking cars on eBay at the moment too at the £3k mark... just need to wait a few months unfortunately!
I'm going this weekend to meet a chap from the Zroadster forum who lives nearby, who's offered to show me round his early 2.8 and If I'm lucky might get a ride out.
There's some cracking looking cars on eBay at the moment too at the £3k mark... just need to wait a few months unfortunately!
Don't worry about hogging the thread, all input is good!
This afternoon I drove over to meet a chap from the ZRoadster forum who lives close by. He has a very nicely looked after face-lifted last of the line 2.8 car, Bright Silver with very very nice extended Blue leather which I was quite taken by.
Had a good nose round his car, he pointed out some useful stuff and was kind enough to take me out for a short drive, which was really useful, I learnt a lot.
Overall -
The car feels very 'old-school'. The owner commented how different it was to his Wife's Z4 (And thus, the more modern cars/BMW's I was hoping it wouldn't remind me of).
Very Mechanical feeling, made from nuts and bolts, if that makes sense. I was surprised by how much - this feel, combined with an interior that is quite old fashioned in design makes it feel really characterful, I liked it a lot. There was a fair bit of crashing about and jarring over the rubbish pot-holed roads, much like an MX-5, however it was still very comfortable overall. Felt like an older car than it was in some respects. It also feels like a car very much dominated by its engine, which is great.
I also take issue with the comments RE sitting ON not IN it, and it not feeling like a proper sportcar? For me, it had EXACTLY that Sportscar feel, pillar box windscreen, sat low on the back wheels, legs stretched out in front. Its a car with a character, I really liked it.
I reckon, that the Z3 is to, say, TR6, Healey etc, as the MX-5 is to an Elan, or MGB... if that makes an ounce of sense to anyone.
As in - it ways it feels like a much older car, gives you that thrill and Drama, yet has the benefit of modern technology under the skin, it will start in the winter, keep the rain out, not rot-away in an instant etc etc.
Got some searches setup on ebay and all the classifieds, trader etc firmly saved in my favourites folder for the time being...!
This afternoon I drove over to meet a chap from the ZRoadster forum who lives close by. He has a very nicely looked after face-lifted last of the line 2.8 car, Bright Silver with very very nice extended Blue leather which I was quite taken by.
Had a good nose round his car, he pointed out some useful stuff and was kind enough to take me out for a short drive, which was really useful, I learnt a lot.
Overall -
The car feels very 'old-school'. The owner commented how different it was to his Wife's Z4 (And thus, the more modern cars/BMW's I was hoping it wouldn't remind me of).
Very Mechanical feeling, made from nuts and bolts, if that makes sense. I was surprised by how much - this feel, combined with an interior that is quite old fashioned in design makes it feel really characterful, I liked it a lot. There was a fair bit of crashing about and jarring over the rubbish pot-holed roads, much like an MX-5, however it was still very comfortable overall. Felt like an older car than it was in some respects. It also feels like a car very much dominated by its engine, which is great.
I also take issue with the comments RE sitting ON not IN it, and it not feeling like a proper sportcar? For me, it had EXACTLY that Sportscar feel, pillar box windscreen, sat low on the back wheels, legs stretched out in front. Its a car with a character, I really liked it.
I reckon, that the Z3 is to, say, TR6, Healey etc, as the MX-5 is to an Elan, or MGB... if that makes an ounce of sense to anyone.
As in - it ways it feels like a much older car, gives you that thrill and Drama, yet has the benefit of modern technology under the skin, it will start in the winter, keep the rain out, not rot-away in an instant etc etc.
Got some searches setup on ebay and all the classifieds, trader etc firmly saved in my favourites folder for the time being...!
What is interesting is that thats close to what I thought and found when I saw that new one.
Sticky throttle - I also initially thought maybe it was some weird DBW nuance, but it turns out they are cable throttles, and that clearly many of them have very sticky, stiff, slow pedals. This is surely a piece of piss to fix, even if its a new cable required. Just the kind of thing that a non-petrolhead might no notice.
Gearchange is a bit agricultural - again coming from a car with a rifle-bolt change I think its just what there like, a bit wooly. Short shift kit sounds like it must be one of the first things to change in these cars!?
I personally wouldnt be bothered by things like the windows etc, if your at all mechanical then they will surely be easy to sort? and things like that are cracking bargaining tools.
I like how you describe the drive as being a bit brutish, matches what I thought. Old fashioned, needs a bit of man-handling. I liked that!
RE the windnoise - have you ridden in many cabrios before? I thought the one I went in was quite good for windnoise with the roof up, the roof seemed to be double skinned too which was nice. Perhaps there are some windwo alignment issues to be looked at, I know that can work on MX-5's.
Good luck with your search!
Sticky throttle - I also initially thought maybe it was some weird DBW nuance, but it turns out they are cable throttles, and that clearly many of them have very sticky, stiff, slow pedals. This is surely a piece of piss to fix, even if its a new cable required. Just the kind of thing that a non-petrolhead might no notice.
Gearchange is a bit agricultural - again coming from a car with a rifle-bolt change I think its just what there like, a bit wooly. Short shift kit sounds like it must be one of the first things to change in these cars!?
I personally wouldnt be bothered by things like the windows etc, if your at all mechanical then they will surely be easy to sort? and things like that are cracking bargaining tools.
I like how you describe the drive as being a bit brutish, matches what I thought. Old fashioned, needs a bit of man-handling. I liked that!
RE the windnoise - have you ridden in many cabrios before? I thought the one I went in was quite good for windnoise with the roof up, the roof seemed to be double skinned too which was nice. Perhaps there are some windwo alignment issues to be looked at, I know that can work on MX-5's.
Good luck with your search!
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