How many good morals should i show after a private sale?
Discussion
Text comes in, don't recognise who it is, but whoever it is isn't best pleased. I text back, long story short, it's the fella who bought my 50cc Garelli Tiger Cross sports moped in January.
He's tried it out for the first time and not only do none of the lights work but he says there is an ignition issue which means it will only start with a bump, it will not start by prodding the pedal.
Now i get that £5,000 is a lot of money, but should i agree to anything in your view as a goodwill gesture if i can establish the faults are there (dealer evidence for example) or is ''buyer beware'' king in all cases?
I recall the sale vividly. The bike started and ran fine but the lights were always hit and miss when these bikes were new, never mind 46 years old. I seem to recall telling him they were a weak point on those bikes.
I digress, IS there any reason for me to give any kind of financial help, legally, morally or otherwise?
He's tried it out for the first time and not only do none of the lights work but he says there is an ignition issue which means it will only start with a bump, it will not start by prodding the pedal.
Now i get that £5,000 is a lot of money, but should i agree to anything in your view as a goodwill gesture if i can establish the faults are there (dealer evidence for example) or is ''buyer beware'' king in all cases?
I recall the sale vividly. The bike started and ran fine but the lights were always hit and miss when these bikes were new, never mind 46 years old. I seem to recall telling him they were a weak point on those bikes.
I digress, IS there any reason for me to give any kind of financial help, legally, morally or otherwise?
The Garelli was priced correctly, restored by probably the top Garelli sports moped man in the country. £5,000 was spot on for the bike in question.
I will not even try and explain old bike prices however, as they have made no sense to me for a very long time. EG there is a sports moped on sale for £12,000 in Uxbridge, west London at the moment. It is very overpriced in my view but he may well get £9,000+ for it, i would certainly pay £7,500. EG why anyone would pay £35,000 (!) for a 1970s Triumph 750cc triple is anyone's guess but that's what one fetched around Christmas. Rarity of bikes that at their time were icons seems to be the factor. (Plenty of other very rare bikes still fetch nothing hardly.)
As far as the Garelli is concerned he's told me 2 separate dealers will vouch that the electrics have significant faults but i have gone with the majority opinion and politely said that i am sorry that faults have appeared but those bikes used to go wrong from new, never mind half a century later. I suppose his argument is that a fully restored bike should have fully restored electrics, ergo they should not be going wrong in the first 5 miles. I've bought several classic bikes lately and have found seized calipers, leaking forks, all sorts, it's part of buying an old bike, you have to accept that servicing and repair is a forever thing not once a year at the dealer.
I will not even try and explain old bike prices however, as they have made no sense to me for a very long time. EG there is a sports moped on sale for £12,000 in Uxbridge, west London at the moment. It is very overpriced in my view but he may well get £9,000+ for it, i would certainly pay £7,500. EG why anyone would pay £35,000 (!) for a 1970s Triumph 750cc triple is anyone's guess but that's what one fetched around Christmas. Rarity of bikes that at their time were icons seems to be the factor. (Plenty of other very rare bikes still fetch nothing hardly.)
As far as the Garelli is concerned he's told me 2 separate dealers will vouch that the electrics have significant faults but i have gone with the majority opinion and politely said that i am sorry that faults have appeared but those bikes used to go wrong from new, never mind half a century later. I suppose his argument is that a fully restored bike should have fully restored electrics, ergo they should not be going wrong in the first 5 miles. I've bought several classic bikes lately and have found seized calipers, leaking forks, all sorts, it's part of buying an old bike, you have to accept that servicing and repair is a forever thing not once a year at the dealer.
hman said:
"I'm very sorry to hear of the trouble you are experiencing with your bike - I wish you the best of luck in resolving the problems with your bike as soon as possible"
That was my final reply to the guy who angrily texted that that the gear selector had stopped working 2 weeks after buying my bike.
Old bikes go wrong. Very old ones more so. The gear selector admittedly could be a hassle sorting but one of my recent purchases has seized brakes up front on one side. It happens.That was my final reply to the guy who angrily texted that that the gear selector had stopped working 2 weeks after buying my bike.
No Rallycross this isn't a wind-up, move on if you have nothing relevant to say, i'm sure your mum has your tea ready by now.
There's nowhere to put one, i do get your joke though!
The Japanese FS1E and SS50 mopeds were light years ahead of the Italian bikes on quality and also had proper electrics and a battery. But all that mattered to a spotty 16 year old was how fast it went and the 4.8 bhp FS1E and 2.5 bhp Honda (about 3.5 bhp with the throttle slide altered to effectively de-restrict it) were way down on the lighter 6-7 bhp Italian stallions of the day. The Italian bikes were often tuned to 10 bhp and were very nippy for a moped in that tune but ate plugs and ate pistons for fun.
A sports moped guru from Hertfordshire put a tuned 114cc Honda single in a Honda SS50 sports moped to finally end the 2-stroke victories on classic moped runs about 20 years ago and almost 18 bhp put the smelly oilers in their place. Until he was sussed out!
I've not heard from the fella for a while, i think he's realised it's buyer beware.
The Japanese FS1E and SS50 mopeds were light years ahead of the Italian bikes on quality and also had proper electrics and a battery. But all that mattered to a spotty 16 year old was how fast it went and the 4.8 bhp FS1E and 2.5 bhp Honda (about 3.5 bhp with the throttle slide altered to effectively de-restrict it) were way down on the lighter 6-7 bhp Italian stallions of the day. The Italian bikes were often tuned to 10 bhp and were very nippy for a moped in that tune but ate plugs and ate pistons for fun.
A sports moped guru from Hertfordshire put a tuned 114cc Honda single in a Honda SS50 sports moped to finally end the 2-stroke victories on classic moped runs about 20 years ago and almost 18 bhp put the smelly oilers in their place. Until he was sussed out!
I've not heard from the fella for a while, i think he's realised it's buyer beware.
SpeckledJim said:
There's nothing moral about giving your money to a chancer.
Arguably if you give him money, you're teaching him to carry on behaving like that toward other people, so perhaps a case could be made that the moral thing to do is actually to NOT give him your money.
This is the majority verdict. I've got 2 bikes with faults i failed to notice when i bought them, namely shot fork seals and seized brake calipers. The inside of one of the tanks is corroded too, all more fkg expense but i can hardly go back to the seller. They're old bikes. I wanted them so i had them, knowing they're not going to be fault-free for long.Arguably if you give him money, you're teaching him to carry on behaving like that toward other people, so perhaps a case could be made that the moral thing to do is actually to NOT give him your money.
Cambs_Stuart said:
Depends on what the caller is after. Does he want cash, in which case politely say no. Or is he after technical help?
I've sold a couple of subarus to people and they've stayed in touch, looking for info on mods I've done, where I got parts from, grades of oil used, recommended garages etc.
He was looking for 500 quid towards repairs, basically.I've sold a couple of subarus to people and they've stayed in touch, looking for info on mods I've done, where I got parts from, grades of oil used, recommended garages etc.
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