Business electric standing charge
Discussion
RicksAlfas said:
Frimley111R said:
I would not normally do this, but we install voltage optimisers that reduce electricity usage by approx 10% in commercial locations. Some of our big clients are going to be saving tens of thousands a year. It won't help with the SC but when you reduce consumption costs by 10%....
(Again, apologies if my post is a bit salesy, not meant to be, I just thought it would be useful)
No problem at all. It's all interesting and useful stuff!(Again, apologies if my post is a bit salesy, not meant to be, I just thought it would be useful)
(How would I know if I need one/already have one).
Just because it ever so slightly blew my mind when we came across them (and I am a cynic) you may find this interesting.
All the electrical equipment in the UK is designed for work at 220V as this is the Euro standard. However we get 230V in the UK and because this can vary by 10% (either way), it can be over 250V. IIRC the UK average is 242V.
You don't need anything over 220V but you pay for every volt over it.
A VO reduces this voltage. It is a relatively simple device that fits before your meter and works 24/7, saving, on average 10% on your electricity costs. One of our clients is predicted to save £84,000p.a.!
The interesting thing is that voltage optimisers' main task is to stop voltage spikes which reduce the life of electronic equipment and to reduce the voltage for the same reason. The cost saving was incidental but since energy prices shot up there's been a huge amount of interest in them, simply due to the cost savings.
It was first designed for British Steel in the UK but lots of major brands use them including Betfred, BUPA, etc. Essentially any large consumer of electricity.
RicksAlfas said:
Are you a big user? We're with EON and they've declined to quote our renewal (through a broker) as they say they will only take on commercial contracts over 500,000kwh per year! Our use is just under 200,000.
The new quotes I've got (SSE or Engie) are at least 14% higher than I've been paying the last two years! Not only have the rates gone up, but the monthly fixed charges have doubled too.
This is for a contract starting March 1st. Not sure whether to hang on, or it's just going to keep getting worse...
Are you on a Half Hourly meter?The new quotes I've got (SSE or Engie) are at least 14% higher than I've been paying the last two years! Not only have the rates gone up, but the monthly fixed charges have doubled too.
This is for a contract starting March 1st. Not sure whether to hang on, or it's just going to keep getting worse...If you are happy to take a look for you. Prices have been falling heavily for the last 2 weeks so it's quite likely that we could get you something cheaper.
Frimley111R said:
RicksAlfas said:
Frimley111R said:
I would not normally do this, but we install voltage optimisers that reduce electricity usage by approx 10% in commercial locations. Some of our big clients are going to be saving tens of thousands a year. It won't help with the SC but when you reduce consumption costs by 10%....
(Again, apologies if my post is a bit salesy, not meant to be, I just thought it would be useful)
No problem at all. It's all interesting and useful stuff!(Again, apologies if my post is a bit salesy, not meant to be, I just thought it would be useful)
(How would I know if I need one/already have one).
Just because it ever so slightly blew my mind when we came across them (and I am a cynic) you may find this interesting.
All the electrical equipment in the UK is designed for work at 220V as this is the Euro standard. However we get 230V in the UK and because this can vary by 10% (either way), it can be over 250V. IIRC the UK average is 242V.
You don't need anything over 220V but you pay for every volt over it.
A VO reduces this voltage. It is a relatively simple device that fits before your meter and works 24/7, saving, on average 10% on your electricity costs. One of our clients is predicted to save £84,000p.a.!
The interesting thing is that voltage optimisers' main task is to stop voltage spikes which reduce the life of electronic equipment and to reduce the voltage for the same reason. The cost saving was incidental but since energy prices shot up there's been a huge amount of interest in them, simply due to the cost savings.
It was first designed for British Steel in the UK but lots of major brands use them including Betfred, BUPA, etc. Essentially any large consumer of electricity.
However, if you have fluctuating loads, and lots of equipment which already has VO built in (a lot of products these days do) then they can ruin your operation.
As an example, a funny story I was told by a client who run a chain of bingo halls, who installed VO after a big refurb.
This bingo hall was in a bit of a rough area (needed for context).
So the reopening night starts well, but by 7.30-8pm things started going downhill. With the VO in place the current sent to their industrial sized microwaves (which have mini VO units in them) was not sufficient to power their microwaves. So they point blank refused to work.
This meant almost 1000 women (mainly 40+) did not get their meat pie, chicken and mushroom pie etc etc etc, that night.
Apparently they sold over 1000 pies a night on busy nights.
Long story short, the lack of pies, and too much to drink caused a riot, 2 vans of riot police came, 20 were arrested, 2 officers were injured, and the riot made all of the local newspapers!
The next day they had engineers in from the microwave manufacture to find out what went wrong, and the cause was not enough voltage to the microwaves.
The next night they turned the VO off, and everything worked fine.
The VO also affected the aircon in the bingo hall as
They were only ever used once.
Geoffcapes said:
Jon39 said:
Geoffcapes said:
Jon39 said:
Purely out of interest, I wondered what my own costs are.
The unit charge seems considerably lower than the figure that you have quoted, so therefore the question is, are commercial prices higher than domestic ? If so why, because business must on average use more electricity ?
Domestic electricity tariffs, even with the same supplier, still vary according to the old nationalised geographical areas.
I have two contracts with Octopus Energy (figures including VAT).
28.10p / kWh.
45.57p daily charge.
26.85p / kWh.
52.32p daily charge.
Your cost per kWh for a business will be less than a domestic rate, mainly (but not always) because energy companies know when they will be supplying you with power (and gas). They can then factor that into their generation profile.
Domestic customers use power (and gas) willy nilly, so they are much harder to profile (outside of the normal 6-10pm consumption).
But the figures that I posted (domestic tariff), show it the other way around Geoff.
Your point would indicate that the OP is paying (business tariff) way over the expected amount.
If anyone is paying over 30p for their business tariff is certainly paying way more than they should for their energy.
Which have been extremely volatile.
They have come off the peaks that we saw last summer, but do have considerable fluctuations over hte course of a week.
That is why you have brokers that get prices on one day, then another, and another, then another .....
Suppliers look at the volatility, figure a price that will cover this and then issue a price to customers.
They cannot go out and hedge the underlying commodity if volume is small, so they have to group it.
Add in the volatility in no commodity prices, and it turns into a large risk premium that needs to be added.
Example - REGO (to show the electricity is green was circa £1/MWh 18 months ago. Now it is circa £25/MWh .....
Cupid-stunt said:
Business prices are more reflective of the wholesale energy price.
Which have been extremely volatile.
They have come off the peaks that we saw last summer, but do have considerable fluctuations over hte course of a week.
That is why you have brokers that get prices on one day, then another, and another, then another .....
Suppliers look at the volatility, figure a price that will cover this and then issue a price to customers.
They cannot go out and hedge the underlying commodity if volume is small, so they have to group it.
Add in the volatility in no commodity prices, and it turns into a large risk premium that needs to be added.
Example - REGO (to show the electricity is green was circa £1/MWh 18 months ago. Now it is circa £25/MWh .....
My company does commercial energy procurement. Which have been extremely volatile.
They have come off the peaks that we saw last summer, but do have considerable fluctuations over hte course of a week.
That is why you have brokers that get prices on one day, then another, and another, then another .....
Suppliers look at the volatility, figure a price that will cover this and then issue a price to customers.
They cannot go out and hedge the underlying commodity if volume is small, so they have to group it.
Add in the volatility in no commodity prices, and it turns into a large risk premium that needs to be added.
Example - REGO (to show the electricity is green was circa £1/MWh 18 months ago. Now it is circa £25/MWh .....
mattybrown said:
I bet nothing happens.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67431758
I bet you're right!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67431758
mattybrown said:
I bet nothing happens.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67431758
"Ofgem said suppliers would still have to cover the costs in other ways, which would mean charging a higher price for every unit of power used."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67431758
However they do it there will be winners and losers, just different ones.
Geoffcapes said:
Cupid-stunt said:
Business prices are more reflective of the wholesale energy price.
Which have been extremely volatile.
They have come off the peaks that we saw last summer, but do have considerable fluctuations over hte course of a week.
That is why you have brokers that get prices on one day, then another, and another, then another .....
Suppliers look at the volatility, figure a price that will cover this and then issue a price to customers.
They cannot go out and hedge the underlying commodity if volume is small, so they have to group it.
Add in the volatility in no commodity prices, and it turns into a large risk premium that needs to be added.
Example - REGO (to show the electricity is green was circa £1/MWh 18 months ago. Now it is circa £25/MWh .....
My company does commercial energy procurement. Which have been extremely volatile.
They have come off the peaks that we saw last summer, but do have considerable fluctuations over hte course of a week.
That is why you have brokers that get prices on one day, then another, and another, then another .....
Suppliers look at the volatility, figure a price that will cover this and then issue a price to customers.
They cannot go out and hedge the underlying commodity if volume is small, so they have to group it.
Add in the volatility in no commodity prices, and it turns into a large risk premium that needs to be added.
Example - REGO (to show the electricity is green was circa £1/MWh 18 months ago. Now it is circa £25/MWh .....
So it's kinda engrained ....
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