Bugger. How to Appeal HMRC Fine?
Discussion
I returned home today to find a notice of being fined £900 for not filing an income tax PAYE return for the company I have.
It is a VAT registered limited company. Apparently this return was due 9 months ago. Thing is, I never received said form. I have no doubt that would get a response of tough shit from the revenue, but for a company that is not trading and hasnt been for 2 years, absolutely no PAYE activity AT ALL, being fined that amount seems somewhat disproportionate?
It is a VAT registered limited company. Apparently this return was due 9 months ago. Thing is, I never received said form. I have no doubt that would get a response of tough shit from the revenue, but for a company that is not trading and hasnt been for 2 years, absolutely no PAYE activity AT ALL, being fined that amount seems somewhat disproportionate?
See www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=370903&f=92&h=0
Looks like it could have been an IR cock-up.
I'm in the same boat.
Phil
Looks like it could have been an IR cock-up.
I'm in the same boat.
Phil
Was your company registered for PAYE in the year ended 5 April 2006?
Did the directors or employees receive any salary in the year ended 5 April 2006?
Did the directors or employees receive any benefits in kind during the year ended 5 April 2006?
Did the directors or employees receive any work related expenses during the year ended 5 April 2006?
Was a blank P35 for the tax year 2005/06 sent by the Revenue to your company for completion?
Did the directors or employees receive any salary in the year ended 5 April 2006?
Did the directors or employees receive any benefits in kind during the year ended 5 April 2006?
Did the directors or employees receive any work related expenses during the year ended 5 April 2006?
Was a blank P35 for the tax year 2005/06 sent by the Revenue to your company for completion?
Eric Mc said:
Was your company registered for PAYE in the year ended 5 April 2006? Yes
Did the directors or employees receive any salary in the year ended 5 April 2006? No
Did the directors or employees receive any benefits in kind during the year ended 5 April 2006? No
Did the directors or employees receive any work related expenses during the year ended 5 April 2006? Will need to check the accounts as there may have been but I'm pretty certain they didnt
Was a blank P35 for the tax year 2005/06 sent by the Revenue to your company for completion? With this years in my hand right now I can definately conclude I have never seen one before
Did the directors or employees receive any salary in the year ended 5 April 2006? No
Did the directors or employees receive any benefits in kind during the year ended 5 April 2006? No
Did the directors or employees receive any work related expenses during the year ended 5 April 2006? Will need to check the accounts as there may have been but I'm pretty certain they didnt
Was a blank P35 for the tax year 2005/06 sent by the Revenue to your company for completion? With this years in my hand right now I can definately conclude I have never seen one before
It is highly unlikely that no P35 was sent out for 2005/06 if the business was registered for PAYE during that period. If you didn't see the P35 you would have to check to
a) see if the Revenue have a record of sending one out
b) if they did, finding out where it was sent.
Who has the responsibility of looking after your company's PAYE and payroll affairs - you or your accountant?
Most accountants would be alert to whether P35s should be completed by their clients and would have some sort of system in place to chase their clients up if the deadline was approaching and there was no sign of a P35 being completed.
If a P35 WAS sent out by the Revenue for the year 2005/06 and it wasn't submitted by you - then the fine, in this case, could be due and payable.
I think a number of telephone calls will be in order tomorrow.
a) see if the Revenue have a record of sending one out
b) if they did, finding out where it was sent.
Who has the responsibility of looking after your company's PAYE and payroll affairs - you or your accountant?
Most accountants would be alert to whether P35s should be completed by their clients and would have some sort of system in place to chase their clients up if the deadline was approaching and there was no sign of a P35 being completed.
If a P35 WAS sent out by the Revenue for the year 2005/06 and it wasn't submitted by you - then the fine, in this case, could be due and payable.
I think a number of telephone calls will be in order tomorrow.
We dont really have a payroll. The previous directors were my father and another person, the other person handling all the PAYE stuff. When I bought him out, everything was meant to come to me. I remember there was some confusion over where stuff was getting sent by the revenue at the time of take over which was the end of 2005.
The address the revenue use now is mine, the previous address was the other director I bought out. My adress has been in use since early 2006.
The address the revenue use now is mine, the previous address was the other director I bought out. My adress has been in use since early 2006.
What's the bet a P35 was sent to the old address?
I would phone the Revenue staright away and ask them if a 2005/06 P35 was sent out and if so, to what address.
I would then lodge an appeal against the penalty within the 30 day time limit stipulated. You will note that the date of the Penalty Notice is probably 12 March. This means that 15 days of the 30 day appeal period have already passed.
I would phone the Revenue staright away and ask them if a 2005/06 P35 was sent out and if so, to what address.
I would then lodge an appeal against the penalty within the 30 day time limit stipulated. You will note that the date of the Penalty Notice is probably 12 March. This means that 15 days of the 30 day appeal period have already passed.
Eric Mc said:
What's the bet a P35 was sent to the old address?
I would phone the Revenue staright away and ask them if a 2005/06 P35 was sent out and if so, to what address.
I would then lodge an appeal against the penalty within the 30 day time limit stipulated. You will note that the date of the Penalty Notice is probably 12 March. This means that 15 days of the 30 day appeal period have already passed.
I would phone the Revenue staright away and ask them if a 2005/06 P35 was sent out and if so, to what address.
I would then lodge an appeal against the penalty within the 30 day time limit stipulated. You will note that the date of the Penalty Notice is probably 12 March. This means that 15 days of the 30 day appeal period have already passed.
I didnt think of that!
Does it not take the **** that not only were these all sent out in error that they took 12 days to arrive!?
At first I did think it was just mine which was delayed, but it is too much of a co-incidence that *everyones* were delayed to the same day, a Saturday, thue the first business day after delivery is a full 2 weeks after the notice is dated!?
HMRC are notoriously bad at storing addresses, they keep a large amount of historical addresses and one department to another can incorrectly send stuff to an old address, whilst another department can send information to another and so on..
I would enter in to written and telephone correspondance with them. The written correspondance gives you evidence and proof. The telephone correspondance, should be detailed by them on their system, and also gives "instant" communication, which should stop things getting any worse. Most of the time if you talk to HMRC they can actually be quite reasonable and understanding. If you ignore things or don't communicate well with them things can escalate. I would keep a diary of all comms. both written and spoken, to ensure that you can show that you have acted properly.
HTH
I would enter in to written and telephone correspondance with them. The written correspondance gives you evidence and proof. The telephone correspondance, should be detailed by them on their system, and also gives "instant" communication, which should stop things getting any worse. Most of the time if you talk to HMRC they can actually be quite reasonable and understanding. If you ignore things or don't communicate well with them things can escalate. I would keep a diary of all comms. both written and spoken, to ensure that you can show that you have acted properly.
HTH
Thats what I plan to do. Had a mountain of other battles to fight today, so I'll be getting started on this tomorrow. Checked through all my company documents and there is definately no P35 or any form of reminder for lack of filing. Would suggest either I filed it and just dont recall, or it never arrived.
I dont ignore HMRC forms and I dont ignore reminders/warnings/penalty notices for ANYTHING!
I dont ignore HMRC forms and I dont ignore reminders/warnings/penalty notices for ANYTHING!
As an update,
I called HMRC yesterday and asked them where they had sent the P35. I was told they couldnt tell me where it had been sent, but they only had one address on file for the company. If not being sent one was the grounds for my appeal I should put that in a letter to them.
I then told the guy the company hadnt been trading although the PAYE scheme was active. He them said I shouldnt even have to put the fact that a P35 wasnt received in the letter, just stating the company wasnt trading and it was a zero return would be enough to have the fine removed. (not verbatim but that was what was said).
Drafting a letter tonight after work so we'll see how it goes.
I called HMRC yesterday and asked them where they had sent the P35. I was told they couldnt tell me where it had been sent, but they only had one address on file for the company. If not being sent one was the grounds for my appeal I should put that in a letter to them.
I then told the guy the company hadnt been trading although the PAYE scheme was active. He them said I shouldnt even have to put the fact that a P35 wasnt received in the letter, just stating the company wasnt trading and it was a zero return would be enough to have the fine removed. (not verbatim but that was what was said).
Drafting a letter tonight after work so we'll see how it goes.
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