Dell XPS or Mac book pro

[ZesPak]

300bhp/ton said:

The answer is essentially the same as the one for the reason why you have a Jag XF and not an Insignia. One certainly costs a lot more for largely the same spec. But it doesn't mean the amount to the same thing as an end result.

You don't know what I paid for my XF, and the insignia is smaller, fwd, a lot uglier and a lot worse on taxes here.
And spec for spec, the difference was far from 40%.

mikef said:

So you've added custom options to out-spec the Dell XPS and bump up the price? Surprised you didn't go for a 2TB SSD

? No, like I said, I went as close as possible. I upped the CPU to .1Ghz over instead of .2 under, and tbh the Radeon Pro 460 is still seriously underspecced instead of over?
Ok, underspec the MBP and you got can cut off about £180? Story stays the same.

Go on then, post your answer to the XPS I posted

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 19th April 22:45

[300bhp/ton]

bulldong said:

Yes perhaps. I had nokias, and then moved to an iPhone and have probably about 10 years invested into that, which is why I don't bother with trying the Android equivalent.

I use the phone and laptop all the time, so I prefer to just stick with what I know. For me, the older I get, the more technology becomes like a toilet. I don't care about it unless it doesn't work, and then it's a pain in my arse. Switching operating systems would be like taking a crap in a broken toilet for a month until I had learnt it.

I don't mind upgrading to the next model, and love stuff getting faster, but I don't want to mess with what I know works, for now.

As I said in my post, I may revisit when I feel like the XPS has done it's job, so I am not completely averse. Prob early next year.

Just as a side note. If you have an iPhone or iPad. Then having a Mac makes the union of Hess even easier. You can do way more and with far less faffing. Simple things like handover from device to device for easy seemless transition from one to another.

As for learning the OS. There really isn't much to learn. A few basics nav concepts and that's about it. Actual programs will work fine and not really be any different to learn to use than on any other system.

[ZesPak]

300bhp/ton said:

As for learning the OS. There really isn't much to learn. A few basics nav concepts and that's about it. Actual programs will work fine and not really be any different to learn to use than on any other system.

This is true, just shortcuts and gestures as they make life a lot easier imho.

[300bhp/ton]

ZesPak said:

You don't know what I paid for my XF, and the insignia is smaller, fwd, a lot uglier and a lot worse on taxes here.
And spec for spec, the difference was far from 40%.

Look I understand you won't be swayed on your opinion. But I'm sure you understand the point I'm making.



That people will in general, happily pay for something they see as 'premium' or a step up. I only cited cars as it's a super easy observation to make. To which I know that you know this, so I'm not going to try and prove it any further.

Indeed, look at any new car and you can easily add £1000-1500 onto the price just for a different set of alloys, which fundamentally add no additional benefit apart from styling to a vehicle. So arguing that one lap top might cost a bit more than another, but that you do end up with quite a different machine as a result, makes it almost not worth mentioning.


As for the spec thing. Well the reality is, for most people, doing most things on a PC these days. Almost all of them are way powerful enough. For the ops requirements you don't need a specced to the hilt machine to accomplish the tasks.

So you could buy a lower spec Mac with a price closer to the Dell and in reality still have the same real world performance and abilities for your needs. Sure you could buy 'extra' performance, but if you never make use of it, then it's arguably just wasted money.

[ZesPak]

I agree completely, I just responded to your "you can spec a Mac expensive" which should be "a Mac is expensive".
Your argument of "get a lower spec mac" is equally ridiculous as that lower spec Mac also is a lot more expensive than the like for like dell (a pretty expensive laptop in its own right).

I don't mind people making their choice based on preference, it's just the endless justification of "yes, but I don't need a touchscreen (unless Apple makes it)", "hdmi", "high res display", "powerful gpu", but hey, you're cheating as the Mac has a faster ssd! Check the benchmarks of the SSD!

The fact is that, empirically, the XPS and mbp are quite even. All the justification is just personal preference, and it's a big bonus for that personal preference.

[300bhp/ton]

I don't disagree, although I think it is more than preference.

Again to paraphrase cars. Mac OS vs Windows is just like RWD vs FWD.

You can have very similar cars, maybe the FWD actually has a more powerful engine and is cheaper. But people are still willing to pay to get the other.

You might call it preference, but it does have an impact on how you use it and it's other, maybe less quantifiable attributes. That simply aren't cater for in benchmark stats.

[mikef]

A few different scenarios

1. Your employer will provide a MacBook Pro (that's where my other half's comes from, as did my last one) - everywhere I have worked that offers that choice, nearly everyone goes for the Mac (and the ones that don't are more likely to want to run Linux on a Dell XPS than Windows)
2. Your employer provides a Windows machine but operates a BYOD policy - again, where I have worked a surprising number of people will pay for their own Mac rather than use the free company Windows lappy
3. You're an IT contractor, in which case the Mac is likely to cost one or two percent of your annual fee income and your laptop is the primary tool of your trade, plus if you're on the UK flat rate VAT scheme (I know, that's pretty much a dead duck), you could get the VAT back once the price hit 2K
4. It's for home use - your money, your choice; if you can afford it, go for it (like cars in that sense)

[ZesPak]

300bhp/ton said:

I don't disagree, although I think it is more than preference.

Again to paraphrase cars. Mac OS vs Windows is just like RWD vs FWD.

You can have very similar cars, maybe the FWD actually has a more powerful engine and is cheaper. But people are still willing to pay to get the other.

You might call it preference, but it does have an impact on how you use it and it's other, maybe less quantifiable attributes. That simply aren't cater for in benchmark stats.

Yes, this is true. Unless you're stating that rwd is better.
Rwd vs fwd is a preference. But tbh, most people won't care which wheels are driven but care about the badge up front.

As above, if money is no issue for you, that's fine, I just don't subscribe to the "more expensive is better". I think I owned machines of just about every major manufacturer, including a MacBook and I don't think it was that special in any way or that they "have a monopoly on not crap machines" at all. Their build quality was good but far from "head and shoulders above everything else" imho.
As a work tool it had some minor flaws for me (that I have yet to discover in the xps) and while it was one of the best laptops I've had, it hardly justified the premium back then. The premium now has doubled...

IMHO there is a lot of post-purchase rationalization going on. Demonizing windows machines like they are the devils spawn while any Apple machine is a new messiah. I get it, you paid a lot for a machine and it's impossible to fathom someone bought a measurably better machine with less money. So out come the immeasurable properties. Sorry, but it's textbook cognitive science.

[300bhp/ton]

ZesPak said:

I get it, you paid a lot for a machine and it's impossible to fathom someone bought a measurably better machine with less money. So out come the immeasurable properties. Sorry, but it's textbook cognitive science.

I think you are straying a bit far from the path here.

My MBP is a works laptop, I didn't have to pay for it myself. I did buy my Mac Mini, I can't recall the price at the time, but it really wasn't any different money to what I would/could have spent on a Windows machine.

For my use, I do get real world benefits of it not being a Windows machine, or more specific running Mac OS. It's not a 'need' and I could do the same/similar things on a Windows machine, but it is simply a nicer experience on a Mac.

If I wanted too I switch back to Windows tomorrow, but I have no inclination to do so.

I have nothing against the Dell machines themselves. Although unless gaming I'd probably run Linux on them over Windows.

I'm not completely convinced by touch screen laptops. Despite having a Win 10 one in the house. Desktop OS UI's simply are not designed for touch inputs. Win 10 this is especially true.

If I want a touch screen device with extended capabilities I'd use an iPad and bluetooth keyboard.

[jamoor]

300bhp/ton said:

I think you are straying a bit far from the path here.

My MBP is a works laptop, I didn't have to pay for it myself. I did buy my Mac Mini, I can't recall the price at the time, but it really wasn't any different money to what I would/could have spent on a Windows machine.

For my use, I do get real world benefits of it not being a Windows machine, or more specific running Mac OS. It's not a 'need' and I could do the same/similar things on a Windows machine, but it is simply a nicer experience on a Mac.

If I wanted too I switch back to Windows tomorrow, but I have no inclination to do so.

I have nothing against the Dell machines themselves. Although unless gaming I'd probably run Linux on them over Windows.

I'm not completely convinced by touch screen laptops. Despite having a Win 10 one in the house. Desktop OS UI's simply are not designed for touch inputs. Win 10 this is especially true.

If I want a touch screen device with extended capabilities I'd use an iPad and bluetooth keyboard.

Essentially it's down to the user experience NOT the specifications.
People are willing to compromise on specifications if the user experience is better.

Yes the windows laptop has twice the power and 3 times the RAM, but if its running a buggy unoptimised spyware laden piece of crap OS that is windows 10 then there's not much point in having the extra power.

Personally I'm amazed that anyone even uses windows 8 or 10.

[zippy3x]

300bhp/ton said:

I did buy my Mac Mini, I can't recall the price at the time, but it really wasn't any different money to what I would/could have spent on a Windows machine.

Really?

From apple.com
Mac mini
2.6Ghz i5 (presumably Skylake)
8Gb RAM
1TB HDD
£679.00

From Scan.co.uk
3.4Ghz KabyLake i5
Gigabyte Motherboard
16Gb RAM
1Tb HDD
240GB SSD
Case + PSU
£580.00

What colour is the sky in your world

[jamoor]

zippy3x said:

Really?

From apple.com
Mac mini
2.6Ghz i5 (presumably Skylake)
8Gb RAM
1TB HDD
£679.00

From Scan.co.uk
3.4Ghz KabyLake i5
Gigabyte Motherboard
16Gb RAM
1Tb HDD
240GB SSD
Case + PSU
£580.00

What colour is the sky in your world

Well they haven't updated the line in a while so its possible that at the time it was similar?

[zippy3x]

jamoor said:

Well they haven't updated the line in a while so its possible that at the time it was similar?

ha ha - really, that's the best you can come up with?

Mac Mini has always been Apple's worst value proposition. I bought one in 2008 to do some iPhone dev.
It was six months before I realised that spinning beach ball wasn't the default mouse pointer

[zippy3x]

jamoor said:

Well they haven't updated the line in a while so its possible that at the time it was similar?

sorry to reply again to this - still laughing.

Reminds me of a line from Alan Partridge - Alpha Papa

"Bens the butcher - yesterday's meat at today's prices"

[jamoor]

zippy3x said:

sorry to reply again to this - still laughing.

Reminds me of a line from Alan Partridge - Alpha Papa

"Bens the butcher - yesterday's meat at today's prices"

Well, yesterdays meat at todays prices is why the resale is high on apple products generally...

Also I assume your scan machine is a different form factor? And Doesn't include an os? I don't think you know much about computers if it took you six months to figure out a spinning ball isn't a cursor?

Edited by jamoor on Thursday 20th April 18:07

[zippy3x]

jamoor said:

Well, yesterdays meat at todays prices is why the resale is high on apple products generally...

Also I assume your scan machine is a different form factor? And Doesn't include an os? I don't think you know much about computers if it took you six months to figure out a spinning ball isn't a cursor?

Edited by jamoor on Thursday 20th April 18:07

Why would I not assume it was the default cursor if it was the only cursor ever visible?

ps. do you understand sarcasm?

[jamoor]

zippy3x said:

Why would I not assume it was the default cursor if it was the only cursor ever visible?

ps. do you understand sarcasm?

Did you contacts apples (industry leading!) customer support to make sure you didn't have a faulty machine?

[ZesPak]

300bhp/ton said:

ZesPak said:

I get it, you paid a lot for a machine and it's impossible to fathom someone bought a measurably better machine with less money. So out come the immeasurable properties. Sorry, but it's textbook cognitive science.

I think you are straying a bit far from the path here.

My MBP is a works laptop, I didn't have to pay for it myself. I did buy my Mac Mini, I can't recall the price at the time, but it really wasn't any different money to what I would/could have spent on a Windows machine.

Nope, actually now I think I'm even more right.

Same money for a mac mini than the equivalent windows machine? Seriously?

It's these kinds of falsehoods I just can't stand. Just say you wanted it to be Apple. Next thing you're going to convince me that an iPad with a bluetooth keyboard is a better proposition than a touchscreen laptop.

Oh wait.

Don't worry, you'll probably change your mind once Apple decides to release it's full touch screen laptop (maybe even high-res display, they'll probably find a fancy non-descriptive name for that as well!). Although, going by the price of the touchbar, I'm pretty sure it'll start at 4000 pounds.

But that's no problem of course, the experience, build quality and resale value will more than make up for it.

[dmsims]

jamoor said:

apples (industry leading!) customer support

Not for laptops they aren't

[jamoor]

dmsims said:

Not for laptops they aren't

I'd say they are, my laptop went faulty 2 years out of warranty and it was repaired for free.

Another thing is the ease of backup and migrating to a new machine.

I replaced my macbook last, I just put the 2 machines next to each other and clicked a few buttons. A few hours later I just carried on with my new machine.
Similar with time machine backups, they just backup to my nas without any intervention or additional software.

If you have to do a new install on an apple machine, the OS is just downloaded through your internet connection, no pen drives or DVDroms.

IMO most of the problem with non Apple laptops is the Windows operating system that they all seem to come with. Noone seems to have an answer for the torrenting updates that they do, the random updates and reboots. It's just a poor quality product.

You also get a bunch of free or cheap software such as final cut, garageband etc.
Your machines software is also updated for as long as possible, in the old days you had to pay for an update to windows whereas mac users got it included in the price of the machine, forever. Who knows that microsoft are planning now with win 10.

Edited by jamoor on Friday 21st April 00:07