Huge mistake Nokia
Discussion
Pr1964 said:
CommanderJameson said:
Pr1964 said:
Who the f
k needs numbers to back up what is obvious to anyone with half a brain get on a bus and look at what the average person is using ....
If you can't substantiate what you're saying, stop saying it.k needs numbers to back up what is obvious to anyone with half a brain get on a bus and look at what the average person is using .... This kind of "it's obvious" hand-waving is typical of people who have an emotional argument with no rational basis.
I did ask about sales figures for 2011 by input type but I never got an answer the figures from 2008 show t9 sales way ahead of touch...
So can you prove to me that touch is now the best seller ? Or is it just that expectation is that it will be.
I don't need to substantiate anything all I'm doing is voicing what is currently not available ... Samsung have the b5510 Though it's qwerty not t9 which would appear to meet my requirement except its android and android is bug ridden rubbish. .
If Samsung can make that phone with a 2.6 inch screen why can't Nokia make an equivalent running s60 or s40 ?
Because they're a bunch of
s.... There is the asha 302 a plastic effort not quite upto Nokia build of old...As in the mx5 and mini car example ... It's a mystery why Nokia insist on making crappy handsets which are the equivalent to the mini metro and MG garbage which lead to the demise of the British car industry history repeating itself only now it's Nokia .... In the mobile phone market....
So cdr Jameson what are the numbers? And how long before we see a Nokia classic style phone made by LG ?
Call quality
Battery life
Decent screen
T9 or qwerty
And web browser
NO gps no wifi and no apps ........
Anyone who says there's no market for a phone like that is an idiot.....
Do you think that the mobile phone companies are mysteriously allergic to money, or something?
NuisanceFactor said:
eharding said:
Would you pay £500 for a 6310i with the tweaks you asked for?
No, even using man maths I would have difficulty paying that much for a telephone.Which brings us kicking and screaming back to the subject of Nokia.
Once more, for the love of God.
They needed to be able to compete - and win - in the high-margin handset market - and as much as it makes Pr1964's blood boil, the high margin market == smartphone market. They're simply isn't any significant margin to be made manufacturing simple handsets, at least not enough to support the sort of high-cost operation Nokia were running.
They blew it, and as an independent entity they're toast. The fact that Pr1964 wilfully avoids facing - and I think we're now just pandering to his attention seeking - is the simple truth that they blew it because they failed as a smartphone vendor.
Oh, and I'm calling custard on the Venice story. I think any iPhone user would have drowned the mad sod inside of spending 20 minutes in Pr1964's company, and thrown themselves on the mercy of the authorities. Italian prison food isn't that bad I gather, and they'd probably be let off on the grounds of reasonable t
tricide.Pr1964 said:
CommanderJameson said:
Why do you think no-one's made a phone like that?
Do you think that the mobile phone companies are mysteriously allergic to money, or something?
For the same reasons over many years no one made a car like the MGB Roadster for the mass market. Do you think that the mobile phone companies are mysteriously allergic to money, or something?
When the market wanted a car like that, Mazda made one.
Right now, the market for the phone you want is just not viable.
There's a company out there that sells one line of high-end touchscreen smartphones, and they take 75% of all the profit in the mobile phone market (note: not the smartphone market, the whole mobile phone market).
I don't know how clear to make it: the market wants touchscreens. No, seriously, it really, really wants touchscreens.
Pr1964 said:
I'm still waiting to hear what the sales numbers are for touch vs keypad sales for 2011 .......
You write as though you know what these numbers are; you seem very confident that they'll vindicate your position. Therefore I can only assume that you have a source.Link, please.
Slightly back on topic. The battery life issue could be solved by producing two versions of each phone - a slim version (<1cm thick) and a thicker version (say 1.5cm thick) with a battery that will last anything up to a week instead of 1-2 days. So the same phone underneath but with some changes to the casing and battery size .. thoughts .. or is someone going to tell me that the extra production costs are not worth it?
Pr1964 said:
Yea it's like the British Motor industry No one wanted a mini and no one wanted a convertible MG type sports car......
Which is why Mazda built the first MX5 which was a world best seller and MG are now history ….
And BMW make the new MINI…… and BL are dead ….
History is littered with incompetent Management Decisions
Which is why Mazda built the first MX5 which was a world best seller and MG are now history ….
And BMW make the new MINI…… and BL are dead ….
History is littered with incompetent Management Decisions
Not a good idea to bring automotive b
ks on to a motoring forum.Everyone still wanted a Mini. BMW bought Mini back in the early-mid nineties and actually subsidised production through to 2001. The reason why Mini ceased production is that it couldn't get through the more stringent emissions and H&S regs.
Everyone still wanted an MG type sports car, unfortunately in the mid-eighties Toyota and Mazda built their own, which, for a similar price as the MG were far and away better cars. MG failed to adapt, lost their market share and there fore lost their company.
Whilst is actually quite similar to Nokia. They've failed to adapt to what the consumer wants, hence why everyone has ditched their old Nokia and moved to a smart phone.
If there was people that wanted a 6310, then everyone would still be using their 6310. You know why? Because you are right, they don't break, the battery lasts forever, in fact I think I might still have one in a drawer somewhere, and I'm pretty sure it would still work fine. If people still wanted to use a good T9 phone, they'd still be using their old Nokias, but people want smart phones, so that's what they use.
fido said:
Slightly back on topic. The battery life issue could be solved by producing two versions of each phone - a slim version (<1cm thick) and a thicker version (say 1.5cm thick) with a battery that will last anything up to a week instead of 1-2 days. So the same phone underneath but with some changes to the casing and battery size .. thoughts .. or is someone going to tell me that the extra production costs are not worth it?
You can buy extended batteries for many phones. Tried one on my old TyTN/Kaiser. It made an already large phone gigantic, was akin to having a full docking station underneath.Another option is one of these case/charger combinations that has its own battery that re-charges the phone.
The theory is fine, but in practice not - people overall seem to prefer slender phones as opposed to massive slabs.
So Nokia don't make a keypad based heavy business phone do they?
Well wtf is this?
http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/products/phone/e5-00/
I have one. It's OK as long as you don't try anything too complicated, like get e-mail on it. However for the basic calling stuff it's......not as good as my touchscreen smartphone. In fact the only thing it has on my Xperia is battery life, and as the Sony charges by micro-USB, I have chargers for it everywhere - in the car, at my desk, at home. I can charge it off a wall socket or from a PC, even from a car cigarette lighter. It really isn't a problem.
Well wtf is this?
http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/products/phone/e5-00/
I have one. It's OK as long as you don't try anything too complicated, like get e-mail on it. However for the basic calling stuff it's......not as good as my touchscreen smartphone. In fact the only thing it has on my Xperia is battery life, and as the Sony charges by micro-USB, I have chargers for it everywhere - in the car, at my desk, at home. I can charge it off a wall socket or from a PC, even from a car cigarette lighter. It really isn't a problem.
clonmult said:
You can buy extended batteries for many phones. Tried one on my old TyTN/Kaiser. It made an already large phone gigantic, was akin to having a full docking station underneath.
Another option is one of these case/charger combinations that has its own battery that re-charges the phone.
The theory is fine, but in practice not - people overall seem to prefer slender phones as opposed to massive slabs.
Yep, the SG2 (and i guess SG3) has an extender kit and it's not much thicker, unlike the jumbo battery on my N97 for example. But I disagree with the assertion that there isn't a market for a slightly thicker version of smartphones - i'm rather put off buying an HTC One X or Lumia for this very reason and i reckon there are enough hardcore users who will snap up a slightly thicker version given the chance. I'm a pretty average user and find the <1 day usage (which is a practical reality for these new Quad-core phones) too limiting and would trade a couple mm's of thickness for battery life.Another option is one of these case/charger combinations that has its own battery that re-charges the phone.
The theory is fine, but in practice not - people overall seem to prefer slender phones as opposed to massive slabs.
Pr1964 said:
as soon as one company offers that and it sells they'll all like lemmings be doing it.
Well we agree on this at least. I think Mr Jobs is looking down and shaking his head in agreement as well - whether you like Apple stuff or not, they didn't get where they are by relying on marketing consultants.Edited by fido on Friday 11th May 16:48
Pr1964 said:
fido said:
Well we agree on this at least. I think Mr Jobs is looking down and shaking his head in agreement as well - whether you like Apple stuff or not, they didn't get where they are by relying on marketing consultants.
YesEdited by fido on Friday 11th May 16:48
He was able to turn a PC company into a mobile phone giant just imagine what Nokia would be like if they had a Steve Jobs running the show ....
They'd be mobile masters of the universe.
I'd have my perfect phone and so would a lot of other people with their various requirements.
Apple under jobs definitely didn’t behave like lemmings they spotted a part of the market that didn’t exist or was poorly served and made a high quality product.
Nokia behaved like a lemming having missed the start of the smart phone market they then tried to catch-up and as I’ve said ad infinitum they failed to continue to develop the products in the sectors they were leaders in and allowed BB and Samsung to get a toe in the wide open door… complete incompetence…
I have this image of Nokias design and development department 200+ artists who are surounded by thousands of designs of lots of cheap crappy looking phones with each designer knocking out a new design every couple of days to add to the pile.
A technical team of 4 fifty miles down the road and a software team of 2 working at home part time.
My image of Apple is 2 designers backed up by a technical team of 100 and 300 software designers all in the same room.
Earlier in this thread someone posted and asked me why if I was so frustrated why didn’t I contact Nokia and tell them what I though...
Nokia was and is an organisation which doesn’t listen to its customers; they listen to mobile phone reviewers and journalists who are the last people in the world to know what users want all they know to do is compare an apple with a dump truck and still they fail.
I would love to talk to Nokia and tell them what a s
t company they have become and ask them why the fk they just keep making 100’s of crap mobiles and don’t concentrate on make half a dozen excellent mobiles targeted at specific parts of the market …. It would have been very hard for anyone to have done a worst job of Nokia over the last 6 years.
Give me a Job Nokia I’ll make you profitable again
… first step sack the design team marketing team and programming team….
Pr1964 said:
Give me a Job Nokia I’ll make you profitable again
… first step sack the design team marketing team and programming team….
Am I the only one thinking of this ....… first step sack the design team marketing team and programming team….
Yes, there are some users wanting what you ask - but the market really is changing (not necessarily all for the better).
As for the design team - they've been fine. As to a certain extent have their programmers.
Nokias problem was - and very definitely still is - down to management. In-fighting amongst teams, not realising the potential of what they had (there was an app store on Symbian handsets before the iPhone even appeared, it was just a mess).
Heck, some of their ex managers still think that the problems were down to software. When it really was down to senior management not even beginning to know their arse from their elbow. Utter incompetence, and that imbecile running it now is barely any better. He just jumped straight back into his MS bed.
I remember reading of Nokias long term plans a good few years back. Move Symbian down to replace S40 (good idea), develop Meego to be their high end smartphone OS. Having QT as the common backbone between the two systems to give application compatibility.
The N9 shows what could have been - its arguably the slickest, best looking phone on the market at the moment by a fair margin.
When Nokia jumped ship to WP, they already had the second most profitable ecosystem - the iOS store was the runaway leader, but the Ovi store was at that point way more profitable than the Android Marketplace. So some genius decided that dropping a platform that was somehow making money and doing a Ratner was a good idea.
Pr1964 said:
Nokia behaved like a lemming having missed the start of the smart phone market they then tried to catch-up and as I’ve said ad infinitum they failed to continue to develop the products in the sectors they were leaders in and allowed BB and Samsung to get a toe in the wide open door… complete incompetence…
What bubble were you living in? Do you know which company created the smartphone market? I'll give you a hint, they're scandinavian and weren't Ericsson.Pr1964 said:
I would love to talk to Nokia and tell them what a st company they have become and ask them why the fk they just keep making 100’s of crap mobiles and don’t concentrate on make half a dozen excellent mobiles targeted at specific parts of the market ….
On this we can agree - they've never needed to do some many slight product variations, and they've rarely handled them well. Apparently the older S^1 handsets, despite having the same basic hardware (CPU, memory) had totally different OS branches, all with totally different bugs. It just happened that the N97 team screwed it up. I picked up a 5230 on release and found it incredibly reliable.t company they have become and ask them why the fk they just keep making 100’s of crap mobiles and don’t concentrate on make half a dozen excellent mobiles targeted at specific parts of the market …. Pr1964 said:
Even BBC's click program says if you want a phone with long battery life that doesn't freeze just when you need to make a call or send a text buy a 10 year old phone. So even click tech savvy staff understand smart phones are fairly st ...
How is it that Nokia don't understand that sometimes less is more?
there are dozens of phone just like that in every phone shop - they cost about £20t ... How is it that Nokia don't understand that sometimes less is more?
Pr1964 said:
The N9 is no longer available...
Bzzzt. Wrong. Albeit only kinda.The N9 was never fully launched in any territories where
Its readily available SIM free in the UK for between £320 and £350. Which is very, very tempting. But then I've got an 808 on pre-order, truly intrigued by the camera.
Pr1964 said:
Yes plenty of cheap and nasty handsets but that's not what a business user wants to be using. Because they are st!
There are currently no equivalents to the high quality high end old Nokia handsets like the 6301i E75 etc see earlier in this thread, that is where there is a complete void in the market.
Simply because no business user want to use them. Most business users want functionality and are not luddites. There is no void in the market as you imagine, if there was it would be exploited by one of the companies.t!There are currently no equivalents to the high quality high end old Nokia handsets like the 6301i E75 etc see earlier in this thread, that is where there is a complete void in the market.
Apart from battery life, the quality of the phones I have seen these days is excellent.
Pr1964 said:
Go to any construction site office from the Shard to your neighbours loft conversion and you'll see 90% of the workers engineers and tradesmen using t9 handsets which have long battery life simple interface and are robust enough to be dropped and not break.
Real business users don't need Facebook or games ... Just decent battery life and good call quality.... But Nokia etc have decided they don't need a quality handset just a cheap childlike piece of plastic st .... Complete Arrogance. ....
I'd respectfully suggest that construction workers are not big revenue streams for the major phone companies. In any case, most tradies I've known are just as shallow as the rest of the world and want flash smartphones. Plus many places would put safety first and not be allowing those sorts of working to use phones, certainly in the mining industry.Real business users don't need Facebook or games ... Just decent battery life and good call quality.... But Nokia etc have decided they don't need a quality handset just a cheap childlike piece of plastic s
t .... Complete Arrogance. ....Business users these days want (for example) :
-push email
-ability to check-in for flights and view mobile boarding passes,
-view Powerpoint presentations, PDF's and other documents on the move (or even instantly in a meeting)
-View their kids and wives on Facebook
-Listen to MP3's on a plane/train
-FULL access to the internet to do what they want
If you want a old school phone then Nokia and others still make plenty, so not sure why you are complaining.
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