Summer coolant. What is it?
Discussion
I'm having a rant.
What the hell is Summer Coolant?
I'm now finding it next to impossible to buy ordinary antifreeze. All the parts suppliers just seem to want to sell "Summer Coolant", which I reckon is diluted antifreeze at the same price as 100% antifreeze. I'm worried it's diluted with water, and obviously I have my own water and don't have to buy it from parts suppliers.
I've just had a container delivered which is labelled "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE (big lettering) and summer coolant (small lettering)". I missed the 'summer coolant' in small lettering, one of the lads spotted it.
Whenever we test these products, the summer coolant is always weaker, out of the can. When I ask suppliers what summer coolant is, they say it's antifreeze, so I then have to ask why are the containers labelled 'Antifreeze and Summer Coolant'? It's like being labelled 'Antifreeze and Antifreeze'.
When I ask is this antifreeze mixed with water, they say no. Yet they can't tell me what it actually is.
So what is going on? I reckon this is a blatantly illegal practice, and we're buying water at inflated prices when it comes out the tap for next to nowt.
If I'm wrong and "summer coolant" is not water, why does it need less water to mix it with for the same given protection?
I'm asking here because quite simply, not one single parts supplier can tell me what summer coolant is other than waffle about parts numbers and meaningless specs.
Can somebody please tell me what's going on?
What the hell is Summer Coolant?
I'm now finding it next to impossible to buy ordinary antifreeze. All the parts suppliers just seem to want to sell "Summer Coolant", which I reckon is diluted antifreeze at the same price as 100% antifreeze. I'm worried it's diluted with water, and obviously I have my own water and don't have to buy it from parts suppliers.
I've just had a container delivered which is labelled "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE (big lettering) and summer coolant (small lettering)". I missed the 'summer coolant' in small lettering, one of the lads spotted it.
Whenever we test these products, the summer coolant is always weaker, out of the can. When I ask suppliers what summer coolant is, they say it's antifreeze, so I then have to ask why are the containers labelled 'Antifreeze and Summer Coolant'? It's like being labelled 'Antifreeze and Antifreeze'.
When I ask is this antifreeze mixed with water, they say no. Yet they can't tell me what it actually is.
So what is going on? I reckon this is a blatantly illegal practice, and we're buying water at inflated prices when it comes out the tap for next to nowt.
If I'm wrong and "summer coolant" is not water, why does it need less water to mix it with for the same given protection?
I'm asking here because quite simply, not one single parts supplier can tell me what summer coolant is other than waffle about parts numbers and meaningless specs.
Can somebody please tell me what's going on?
The secondary purpose of Anti-Freeze is as a corrosion inhibiter. The term Summer Coolant is used to convince the buyer that it is necessary to have it in the system all year round. Otherwise some smartarse would say "it not cold therefore I don’t need antifreeze" resulting in lots of internal engine corrosion as the hot water is pumped around.
The fact that most are supplied as a strong ready mix is simply good marketing, it makes it look like you are getting more for your money.
The fact that most are supplied as a strong ready mix is simply good marketing, it makes it look like you are getting more for your money.
Edited by richard sails on Thursday 20th June 12:56
E-bmw said:
Summer coolant as you call it is Anti Freeze mixed with DISTILLED/DEIONISED WATER you should NOT be using tap water in you car for coolant.
Rant over.
I've never used water for coolant, I've only ever used coolant for coolant. Yes I've used tap water in the coolant, have done for 40 years, have never ever encountered any issue for doing so, not in my cars or any others.Rant over.
It may be that "Summer Coolant" has been mixed with DISTILLED/DEIONISED WATER, but it doesn't say so on the containers nor can any parts supplier offer this (or any other) explanation.
All I know is that the stuff is weaker, and surely a product labelled 'Antifreeze Concentrate and Summer Coolant has to be blatantly illegal, is it not?
Btw I recall a thread on the tap water issue which I've found, and was in agreement with. As the one poster says, it's not like constantly refilling a kettle.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=12...
E-bmw said:
Summer coolant as you call it is Anti Freeze mixed with DISTILLED/DEIONISED WATER you should NOT be using tap water in you car for coolant.
Rant over.
Actually you can without any ill effects, as long as you have antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors it can handle significantly more impurities than you would find in any tap water.Rant over.
heebeegeetee said:
I'm having a rant.
What the hell is Summer Coolant?
Richard Sails answer is correct, it's both. In fact its antifreeze, summer coolant and anti-corrosion fluid. I've never seen some without clear instructions on it.What the hell is Summer Coolant?
It would help it you said what the actual product was, then we could do the research you can't be arsed to do.
227bhp said:
1. Richard Sails answer is correct, it's both. In fact its antifreeze, summer coolant and anti-corrosion fluid. I've never seen some without clear instructions on it.
2. It would help it you said what the actual product was,
3. then we could do the research you can't be arsed to do.
1. Look, thanks for that, and thanks to Richard Sails too, but this really isn't the issue for me. However I am grateful for you taking the time to answer. 2. It would help it you said what the actual product was,
3. then we could do the research you can't be arsed to do.
2. I did say "I've just had a container delivered which is labelled "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE ". So, to be more clear, I want to buy some concentrated antifreeze. In fact, I just want to buy some antifreeze, I don't care whether it's "concentrated" or not, so long as it's only got antifreeze in the container.
Over the past 2-3 years however, I've noticed it ever more difficult to just buy antifreeze, everybody wants to sell "ready mixed" or "summer coolant". I don't need to buy ready mixed, I don't need to buy water from a car parts supplier at god knows what cost, I can supply water myself
Now, when we have been able to buy pure antifreeze, when we test the products back to back, summer coolant, (or anything with the words summer coolant on the container), is weaker, and so far we are 100% convinced that summer coolant = water. I take Richard Sales' point that it's a way of telling the public that they must have antifreeze in their engine all year round because the anti-corrosion properties are just as important as the protection against freezing, but that doesn't explain the differences in strength. If "summer coolant" is just another label, the strength shouldn't differ.
I've whittled my way through the car parts suppliers, and for the past year I've bought from car Spares, because they sell genuine antifreeze.
Until today. Now their antifreeze comes with the dreaded words "summer coolant". I phone them up and they can't tell me a single thing about 'summer coolant', so I send it back.
I try Andrew Page (having given up on them in the past with this matter) yes, they supply concentrated antifreeze, and I order 20 litres. And the container comes, and is labelled, as I said previously, "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE (big lettering) and summer coolant (small lettering)".
I say it can't be both, it can only be one or the other. I think this is completely illegal, and that this is blatant deception. Here's the label:
So literally, in two consecutive sentences it says in large print it's 'Antifreeze and Summer coolant', in tiny print it says 'antifreeze and engine coolant'. Engine coolant is antifreeze mixed with water, so I say 'antifreeze and engine coolant' makes no sense.
I think it means 'antifreeze and water' but in no way can water be described as an engine coolant anyway. Use water alone and you'll destroy your engine through corrosion, you can only use water when mixed with something else, and then it is no longer water.
3. That's completely untrue and unfair. In fact, personally I very rarely use forums for technical help because you just get too many people who want to boost their self esteem by doing others down, exactly as you have done. I've been chasing this issue for sometime now, I've spoken to quite a few people, spoken to garages and I'm getting nowhere. To be fair, no-one else seems to be arsed either, and when I ask if they're bothered if they're buying water from a parts supplier, I just get a shrug of shoulders and a grunt.
I've only come on this board as something as a last resort. Next step is to write to a manufacturer, but I have noticed that on my latest container there is no reference to a manufacturer, only to 'AP' and ECP, who I reckon are Andrew Page and Euro Car Parts respectively, and so far talking to them has been a complete and utter waste of time.
The parts suppliers I have spoken to are adamant that "summer coolant" or "engine coolant" is not a mix, but the internet is saying different.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=_bsLXaaOCaSDhbIP6...
https://www.total.co.uk/coolant-antifreeze-guide
https://www.micksgarage.com/blog/everything-you-ev...
Yet I can buy something that is labelled "Concentrated antifreeze & Summer Coolant", and I say there is no such thing. I think I've been supplied with 20 litres of "concentrated antifreeze with water".
I do accept that this is likely to be an "Is it me"? issue.
Coolant and anti-freeze are commonly used terms for the same thing. It's perfect sensible for manufacturers to put the alternative names on their packaging so that consumers who are unclear about exactly what they need to buy will see the name they're familiar with. I expect the term 'summer coolant' has been coined to reassure consumers that this is the right stuff to use even if it is not winter.
GreenV8S said:
Coolant and anti-freeze are commonly used terms for the same thing. It's perfect sensible for manufacturers to put the alternative names on their packaging so that consumers who are unclear about exactly what they need to buy will see the name they're familiar with. I expect the term 'summer coolant' has been coined to reassure consumers that this is the right stuff to use even if it is not winter.
I don’t think I agree that they are commonly used terms for the same thing. Car enthusiasts shouldn’t be unclear on this, the garage trade shouldn’t be unclear on this, the seller is not allowed by law afaiaa to be unclear on this. When selling, advertising or marketing you have to be honest and accurate. Fact is, antifreeze isn’t coolant, water isn’t coolant, but the two mixed together is. I understand the man in the pub might think coolant and antifreeze are the same thing, but that isn’t the standard to which laws must apply.
heebeegeetee said:
1. Look, thanks for that, and thanks to Richard Sails too, but this really isn't the issue for me. However I am grateful for you taking the time to answer.
2. I did say "I've just had a container delivered which is labelled "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE ". So, to be more clear, I want to buy some concentrated antifreeze. In fact, I just want to buy some antifreeze, I don't care whether it's "concentrated" or not, so long as it's only got antifreeze in the container.
Over the past 2-3 years however, I've noticed it ever more difficult to just buy antifreeze, everybody wants to sell "ready mixed" or "summer coolant". I don't need to buy ready mixed, I don't need to buy water from a car parts supplier at god knows what cost, I can supply water myself
Now, when we have been able to buy pure antifreeze, when we test the products back to back, summer coolant, (or anything with the words summer coolant on the container), is weaker, and so far we are 100% convinced that summer coolant = water. I take Richard Sales' point that it's a way of telling the public that they must have antifreeze in their engine all year round because the anti-corrosion properties are just as important as the protection against freezing, but that doesn't explain the differences in strength. If "summer coolant" is just another label, the strength shouldn't differ.
I've whittled my way through the car parts suppliers, and for the past year I've bought from car Spares, because they sell genuine antifreeze.
Until today. Now their antifreeze comes with the dreaded words "summer coolant". I phone them up and they can't tell me a single thing about 'summer coolant', so I send it back.
I try Andrew Page (having given up on them in the past with this matter) yes, they supply concentrated antifreeze, and I order 20 litres. And the container comes, and is labelled, as I said previously, "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE (big lettering) and summer coolant (small lettering)".
I say it can't be both, it can only be one or the other. I think this is completely illegal, and that this is blatant deception. Here's the label:
So literally, in two consecutive sentences it says in large print it's 'Antifreeze and Summer coolant', in tiny print it says 'antifreeze and engine coolant'. Engine coolant is antifreeze mixed with water, so I say 'antifreeze and engine coolant' makes no sense.
I think it means 'antifreeze and water' but in no way can water be described as an engine coolant anyway. Use water alone and you'll destroy your engine through corrosion, you can only use water when mixed with something else, and then it is no longer water.
3. That's completely untrue and unfair. In fact, personally I very rarely use forums for technical help because you just get too many people who want to boost their self esteem by doing others down, exactly as you have done. I've been chasing this issue for sometime now, I've spoken to quite a few people, spoken to garages and I'm getting nowhere. To be fair, no-one else seems to be arsed either, and when I ask if they're bothered if they're buying water from a parts supplier, I just get a shrug of shoulders and a grunt.
I've only come on this board as something as a last resort. Next step is to write to a manufacturer, but I have noticed that on my latest container there is no reference to a manufacturer, only to 'AP' and ECP, who I reckon are Andrew Page and Euro Car Parts respectively, and so far talking to them has been a complete and utter waste of time.
The parts suppliers I have spoken to are adamant that "summer coolant" or "engine coolant" is not a mix, but the internet is saying different.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=_bsLXaaOCaSDhbIP6...
https://www.total.co.uk/coolant-antifreeze-guide
https://www.micksgarage.com/blog/everything-you-ev...
Yet I can buy something that is labelled "Concentrated antifreeze & Summer Coolant", and I say there is no such thing. I think I've been supplied with 20 litres of "concentrated antifreeze with water".
I do accept that this is likely to be an "Is it me"? issue.
It's sold now in the same concentration it has always been, what makes you think any different?2. I did say "I've just had a container delivered which is labelled "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE ". So, to be more clear, I want to buy some concentrated antifreeze. In fact, I just want to buy some antifreeze, I don't care whether it's "concentrated" or not, so long as it's only got antifreeze in the container.
Over the past 2-3 years however, I've noticed it ever more difficult to just buy antifreeze, everybody wants to sell "ready mixed" or "summer coolant". I don't need to buy ready mixed, I don't need to buy water from a car parts supplier at god knows what cost, I can supply water myself
Now, when we have been able to buy pure antifreeze, when we test the products back to back, summer coolant, (or anything with the words summer coolant on the container), is weaker, and so far we are 100% convinced that summer coolant = water. I take Richard Sales' point that it's a way of telling the public that they must have antifreeze in their engine all year round because the anti-corrosion properties are just as important as the protection against freezing, but that doesn't explain the differences in strength. If "summer coolant" is just another label, the strength shouldn't differ.
I've whittled my way through the car parts suppliers, and for the past year I've bought from car Spares, because they sell genuine antifreeze.
Until today. Now their antifreeze comes with the dreaded words "summer coolant". I phone them up and they can't tell me a single thing about 'summer coolant', so I send it back.
I try Andrew Page (having given up on them in the past with this matter) yes, they supply concentrated antifreeze, and I order 20 litres. And the container comes, and is labelled, as I said previously, "CONCENTRATED ANTIFREEZE (big lettering) and summer coolant (small lettering)".
I say it can't be both, it can only be one or the other. I think this is completely illegal, and that this is blatant deception. Here's the label:
So literally, in two consecutive sentences it says in large print it's 'Antifreeze and Summer coolant', in tiny print it says 'antifreeze and engine coolant'. Engine coolant is antifreeze mixed with water, so I say 'antifreeze and engine coolant' makes no sense.
I think it means 'antifreeze and water' but in no way can water be described as an engine coolant anyway. Use water alone and you'll destroy your engine through corrosion, you can only use water when mixed with something else, and then it is no longer water.
3. That's completely untrue and unfair. In fact, personally I very rarely use forums for technical help because you just get too many people who want to boost their self esteem by doing others down, exactly as you have done. I've been chasing this issue for sometime now, I've spoken to quite a few people, spoken to garages and I'm getting nowhere. To be fair, no-one else seems to be arsed either, and when I ask if they're bothered if they're buying water from a parts supplier, I just get a shrug of shoulders and a grunt.
I've only come on this board as something as a last resort. Next step is to write to a manufacturer, but I have noticed that on my latest container there is no reference to a manufacturer, only to 'AP' and ECP, who I reckon are Andrew Page and Euro Car Parts respectively, and so far talking to them has been a complete and utter waste of time.
The parts suppliers I have spoken to are adamant that "summer coolant" or "engine coolant" is not a mix, but the internet is saying different.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=_bsLXaaOCaSDhbIP6...
https://www.total.co.uk/coolant-antifreeze-guide
https://www.micksgarage.com/blog/everything-you-ev...
Yet I can buy something that is labelled "Concentrated antifreeze & Summer Coolant", and I say there is no such thing. I think I've been supplied with 20 litres of "concentrated antifreeze with water".
I do accept that this is likely to be an "Is it me"? issue.
I don't know why you think this liquid can't do three things all at once when it clearly does?
What would worry me is that you're using something which only has a life of 2 years, personally i'd be using something with a life of much longer than that.
heebeegeetee said:
I don’t think I agree that they are commonly used terms for the same thing. Car enthusiasts shouldn’t be unclear on this, the garage trade shouldn’t be unclear on this, the seller is not allowed by law afaiaa to be unclear on this. When selling, advertising or marketing you have to be honest and accurate. Fact is, antifreeze isn’t coolant, water isn’t coolant, but the two mixed together is.
I understand the man in the pub might think coolant and antifreeze are the same thing, but that isn’t the standard to which laws must apply.
Whatever liquid you use to cool your engine is coolant. Antifreeze and water can both be used as coolant, on their own or in a solution with each other or different things. I understand the man in the pub might think coolant and antifreeze are the same thing, but that isn’t the standard to which laws must apply.
I have no idea what standard you think needs to be upheld here, but it's apparent the manufacturers you quoted don't share your opinion and I don't either.
The only person this isn’t clear to is the OP. I’m just glad he isn’t coming to me with his stupid rant.
OP the solution you have in your bottle has a lower freezing point than just water and a higher boiling point. If you’re finding that it’s not good enough then your cooling system is either broken or not adequate.
OP the solution you have in your bottle has a lower freezing point than just water and a higher boiling point. If you’re finding that it’s not good enough then your cooling system is either broken or not adequate.
Guys, blame me, I blame myself, but you're all missing the point.
My points are:
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
My points are:
- I'm currently finding it impossible to buy antifreeze (having been buying it off and on for 40 years).
- I'm now finding that I can only buy 'Antifreeze & Summer Coolant' or words to that effect.
- I say that the 'summer coolant' is water, and that the whole thing is a con.
- I don't want to buy water from a car parts supplier, I can supply my own for next to nowt.
- We are finding that 'antifreeze and summer coolant' is weaker than just 'antifreeze', reinforcing my suspicion that 'summer coolant' is water.
- Antifreeze and summer coolant works out more expensive than just plain antifreeze.
- I think this is a con, and the public are being cheated. From what I'm seeing the public don't realise and don't care. Which is fine, but it shows what the motor industry can get away with.
- This shows how easy it is to cheat the public.
- It's a con, and I don't like being conned.
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
heebeegeetee said:
Guys, blame me, I blame myself, but you're all missing the point.
My points are:
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
Make a complaint to the ASA & see what they come up with.My points are:
- I'm currently finding it impossible to buy antifreeze (having been buying it off and on for 40 years).
- I'm now finding that I can only buy 'Antifreeze & Summer Coolant' or words to that effect.
- I say that the 'summer coolant' is water, and that the whole thing is a con.
- I don't want to buy water from a car parts supplier, I can supply my own for next to nowt.
- We are finding that 'antifreeze and summer coolant' is weaker than just 'antifreeze', reinforcing my suspicion that 'summer coolant' is water.
- Antifreeze and summer coolant works out more expensive than just plain antifreeze.
- I think this is a con, and the public are being cheated. From what I'm seeing the public don't realise and don't care. Which is fine, but it shows what the motor industry can get away with.
- This shows how easy it is to cheat the public.
- It's a con, and I don't like being conned.
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
www.asa.org.uk
Don't forget to let us know the result.
If having any water in your car's cooling systems is such an issue why aren't you using one of the 'waterless coolants'?
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