The second Red Bull seat
Discussion
I like Perez but he's clearly not doing the job anymore.
Yuki seems next best on proven pace, but consistency and temperament might make him a poor fit alongside Max.
Lawson has had a few good outings but lacks experience, seems a solid choice but then so did Gasly and Albon until they (inexperienced at the time) got in the car.
Sainz, a terrific driver if they can get him, but would he be too close to Max on pace and would Carlos Sr and Jos be able to keep it civil.
Then there's Riccardo, closest team mate Max ever had and seems to like a similar set up, could a Red Bull be the only car on the grid that actually suits him, would he play second fiddle to Max?
Personally I'd sack Perez and put Riccardo in the 2nd seat for the rest of the season to evaluate him and put Lawson in the VCarb, that way you have data on Riccardo compared to Max, Sergio, Lawson and Tsunoda so you can make a more informed choice for 2025.
Any other options I've not considered? They might as well do something as Perez is going to lose them the constructor's championship anyway so why not salvage something from the situation?
Yuki seems next best on proven pace, but consistency and temperament might make him a poor fit alongside Max.
Lawson has had a few good outings but lacks experience, seems a solid choice but then so did Gasly and Albon until they (inexperienced at the time) got in the car.
Sainz, a terrific driver if they can get him, but would he be too close to Max on pace and would Carlos Sr and Jos be able to keep it civil.
Then there's Riccardo, closest team mate Max ever had and seems to like a similar set up, could a Red Bull be the only car on the grid that actually suits him, would he play second fiddle to Max?
Personally I'd sack Perez and put Riccardo in the 2nd seat for the rest of the season to evaluate him and put Lawson in the VCarb, that way you have data on Riccardo compared to Max, Sergio, Lawson and Tsunoda so you can make a more informed choice for 2025.
Any other options I've not considered? They might as well do something as Perez is going to lose them the constructor's championship anyway so why not salvage something from the situation?
The most obvious answer is Lewis Hamilton so we’d have total rivals in the same cars. Not going to happen but who would come out on top? Not a fan of Lewis, have admired what Max has achieved with obviously a brilliant car but I think Lewis would come out on top. I think he’d find something within himself and he knows the way Max drives. Might be fireworks, definitely some coming together but fantastic racing. We often talk about drivers being in equal cars but this might be the closest pairing ever.
The most obvious answer is Lewis Hamilton so we’d have total rivals in the same cars. Not going to happen but who would come out on top? Not a fan of Lewis, have admired what Max has achieved with obviously a brilliant car but I think Lewis would come out on top. I think he’d find something within himself and he knows the way Max drives. Might be fireworks, definitely some coming together but fantastic racing. We often talk about drivers being in equal cars but this might be the closest pairing ever.
patmahe said:
Personally I'd sack Perez and put Riccardo in the 2nd seat for the rest of the season to evaluate him and put Lawson in the VCarb, that way you have data on Riccardo compared to Max, Sergio, Lawson and Tsunoda so you can make a more informed choice for 2025.
It's too soon for Lawson into RBR. Don't put pressure on him now like they did with Albon, Gasly and Kyvat. Put Ricciardo into RBR now, demote Perez into VCARB. This is reversible, should it end up worse.
Sign Lawson into VCARB now for 2025.
For RBR next year, either sign Sainz and tell the fathers to deal with their tiff away from the track or the best out of Ricciardo/Perez is in the seat for 2025.
If Lawson excels in the first half of the 2025, promote/demote accordingly.
Perez is clearly doing himself no favours but, I think, he is also a victim of the culture of the team to weight as much as they do towards Max.
I can only imagine how dispiriting it must be knowing that you're racing for a team that is pro-actively making it difficult for you to be anything better than second best. There must come a point where you end up not really bothering too much.
The only driver I can think of that fully embraced this was Eddie Irvine. He knew exactly which side his bread was buttered at Ferrari and was happy to take the cheque and do what was asked. It's why he was so liked by the team and stayed there as long as he did.
All of the current drivers are convinced they'll win a championship in the right car so their willingness to test that theory in a team where they will not be given the opportunity to do so might be lacking a bit.
To my mind, Lawson would be a logical replacement but the risk of it ending his career before it started must weigh heavy in his mind.
I can only imagine how dispiriting it must be knowing that you're racing for a team that is pro-actively making it difficult for you to be anything better than second best. There must come a point where you end up not really bothering too much.
The only driver I can think of that fully embraced this was Eddie Irvine. He knew exactly which side his bread was buttered at Ferrari and was happy to take the cheque and do what was asked. It's why he was so liked by the team and stayed there as long as he did.
All of the current drivers are convinced they'll win a championship in the right car so their willingness to test that theory in a team where they will not be given the opportunity to do so might be lacking a bit.
To my mind, Lawson would be a logical replacement but the risk of it ending his career before it started must weigh heavy in his mind.
hondajack85 said:
Cant see anything changing. Red Bull unlikely to bin off all the sponsor money and sales in north and south america just to have another driver doing similar results with zero sponsorship, no matter what some young drivers mums say.
This time, unlike last year, I can see a change coming IF Checo continues his current form.If he fails to score or scores low in both Hungary and Belgium, without extraneous factors, I think they might do something for fear of the constructor's championship being lost - Red Bull are only 71 points ahead of Ferrari and 78 ahead of McLaren
With 12 races to go, as things stand even Max can't outscore two Mclarens and/or two Ferraris scoring well on his own.
rallycross said:
n3il123 said:
Exactly the difference in prize money first v second in the constructors is worth more than perez brings.
Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
This is a really good point and Perez is costing them huge amount of points now. Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
I still think RB will win the WCC, while Max remains competitive and McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes steal points off each other they'll just about cover it off, just a lot closer than the last couple of years.
Muzzer79 said:
This time, unlike last year, I can see a change coming IF Checo continues his current form.
If he fails to score or scores low in both Hungary and Belgium, without extraneous factors, I think they might do something for fear of the constructor's championship being lost - Red Bull are only 71 points ahead of Ferrari and 78 ahead of McLaren
With 12 races to go, as things stand even Max can't outscore two Mclarens and/or two Ferraris scoring well on his own.
Absolutely, and it all it takes is for Max to get a DNF with Perez continuing his current form and that points difference between Red Bull and Ferrari/McLaren will be virtually gone.If he fails to score or scores low in both Hungary and Belgium, without extraneous factors, I think they might do something for fear of the constructor's championship being lost - Red Bull are only 71 points ahead of Ferrari and 78 ahead of McLaren
With 12 races to go, as things stand even Max can't outscore two Mclarens and/or two Ferraris scoring well on his own.
I can easily see Red Bull losing the constructors championship this year to McLaren.
rev-erend said:
Saintz would be the best guy for the job but the sad fact is Newey is on gardening leave and the team looks to be going down hill, they might be lucky to get the drivers championship but no so sure about constructors with Perez adding very little.
Max won't want Sainz again, he was already bested before and now Sainz appears quite improved... Oddly I think someone like Bottas would work, he gets the job done but won't be good enough to really fight Max.
Jasandjules said:
Max won't want Sainz again, he was already bested before and now Sainz appears quite improved...
Oddly I think someone like Bottas would work, he gets the job done but won't be good enough to really fight Max.
Max would eat Sainz alive.Oddly I think someone like Bottas would work, he gets the job done but won't be good enough to really fight Max.
Bottas - he was a tremendous stooge for Hamilton, but he's yesterday's news..
Non of the young drivers mentioned have done anything apart from steer a car home safely when given a chance.
Imagine dumping off a load of cash and watching similar results occur.
Red bulls seem to make a car for max and his knife edge style of driving. If they made a car that suited Perez im sure max could drive it
and they wouldnt have all these problems.
I doubt any of these learners mentioned could drive the car very well.
Mind you my mum says I should get the drive.
Imagine dumping off a load of cash and watching similar results occur.
Red bulls seem to make a car for max and his knife edge style of driving. If they made a car that suited Perez im sure max could drive it
and they wouldnt have all these problems.
I doubt any of these learners mentioned could drive the car very well.
Mind you my mum says I should get the drive.
Perez is a great driver but he has imploded this season.
He needs a fantastic result and soon. Personally I am surprised RB hasn’t pulled the plug.
If I was Red Bull would be Sainz. He isn’t going to trouble Verstappen but he will be fast enough to score the points RB require.
Hulkenberg would have been a good shout but he is not available now. Have been impressed by his performance at HAAS.
He needs a fantastic result and soon. Personally I am surprised RB hasn’t pulled the plug.
If I was Red Bull would be Sainz. He isn’t going to trouble Verstappen but he will be fast enough to score the points RB require.
Hulkenberg would have been a good shout but he is not available now. Have been impressed by his performance at HAAS.
n3il123 said:
Exactly the difference in prize money first v second in the constructors is worth more than perez brings.
Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
But are Red Bull money oriented? Perhaps they would rather have more wind tunnel time, which is affected by WCC position. Perhaps they want to be second or third in WCC as long as Max is WDC.Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
MustangGT said:
n3il123 said:
Exactly the difference in prize money first v second in the constructors is worth more than perez brings.
Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
But are Red Bull money oriented? Perhaps they would rather have more wind tunnel time, which is affected by WCC position. Perhaps they want to be second or third in WCC as long as Max is WDC.Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
MustangGT said:
n3il123 said:
Exactly the difference in prize money first v second in the constructors is worth more than perez brings.
Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
But are Red Bull money oriented? Perhaps they would rather have more wind tunnel time, which is affected by WCC position. Perhaps they want to be second or third in WCC as long as Max is WDC.Also all the staff bonuses are paid out on constructors position
They are not going to keep someone in the car to intentionally finish second or third and, given the civil war going on in RBR, nobody needs any accusations of non-performance.
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