Anti drone systems used at F1

[Byker28i]

Found this interesting, they are using anti drone systems at F1. This article about the systems used at the Austrian Grand Prix back in June.

The Aartos DDS system, developed by German electronics manufacturer Aaronia, was operated from a mobile unit in a Mercedes Sprinter to prevent illegal drone activities.

https://www.pmw-magazine.com/news/race-series-news...

[budgie smuggler]

Byker28i said:

Found this interesting, they are using anti drone systems at F1. This article about the systems used at the Austrian Grand Prix back in June.

The Aartos DDS system, developed by German electronics manufacturer Aaronia, was operated from a mobile unit in a Mercedes Sprinter to prevent illegal drone activities.

https://www.pmw-magazine.com/news/race-series-news...

Wow, i didn't know they could override the drone controls remotely. I assumed the drones would be encrypted/securely paired to the controller.

[Mr E]

budgie smuggler said:

Wow, i didn't know they could override the drone controls remotely. I assumed the drones would be encrypted/securely paired to the controller.

Suggests that “commercially available” drones have a backdoor?

It would be pretty trivial to encrypt, and frankly if I were doing something nefarious I’d ensure the device was autonomous (I.e. no control link to disrupt)

This piece had the whiff of security theatre - or the author has regurgitated a press release without understanding what it means

Anyone know the technical details?

[Rider007]

I was watching the Olympic opening ceremony and saw a soldier carrying a strange looking rifle. Seems it's a portable RF jamming device for shutting down drones https://www.mc2-technologies.com/en/nerod-rf/

[Mr E]

Rider007 said:

I was watching the Olympic opening ceremony and saw a soldier carrying a strange looking rifle. Seems it's a portable RF jamming device for shutting down drones https://www.mc2-technologies.com/en/nerod-rf/

So a wide band blanket of RF to swamp the carrier (or, hugely degrade the signal/noise ratio) would impair/break the control link. That’ll work.

It won’t allow control to be taken over.

[budgie smuggler]

Mr E said:

Suggests that “commercially available” drones have a backdoor?

It would be pretty trivial to encrypt, and frankly if I were doing something nefarious I’d ensure the device was autonomous (I.e. no control link to disrupt)

This piece had the whiff of security theatre - or the author has regurgitated a press release without understanding what it means

Anyone know the technical details?

Good point, that's probably it.

[CLK-GTR]

Rider007 said:

I was watching the Olympic opening ceremony and saw a soldier carrying a strange looking rifle. Seems it's a portable RF jamming device for shutting down drones https://www.mc2-technologies.com/en/nerod-rf/

RF jammers are illegal in most countries including the UK. I don't know how effective the F1 system really would be but they're obviously trying to flog them with this article. Probably effective to stop a local trying to watch the race for free but not going to do much about somebody looking to do something more sinister.

[simon_harris]

Given what we have seen in Ukraine it wouldn't be a huge expense or difficulty to carry out a terror attack with a small drone fleet and create a big impact at any major event. I expect much more technology like this to be seen to be actively used in the near future.

[thegreenhell]

I prefer this Dutch method

[Manners79]

Mr E said:

Suggests that “commercially available” drones have a backdoor?

It would be pretty trivial to encrypt, and frankly if I were doing something nefarious I’d ensure the device was autonomous (I.e. no control link to disrupt)

This piece had the whiff of security theatre - or the author has regurgitated a press release without understanding what it means

Anyone know the technical details?

Yes, and it’s part of my job and way way way more complex than simply hitting the frequencies with noise. And I’m not going to say any more for obvious security / IP reasons!

[robscot]

Manners79 said:

Yes, and it’s part of my job and way way way more complex than simply hitting the frequencies with noise. And I’m not going to say any more for obvious security / IP reasons!

No need to dress it up and be vague there is plenty of public info on GPS spoofing and effectively cracks for the common commercial stuff to take control etc etc.

The stuff some public sector uses eg. https://d-fendsolutions.com/drone-incident-lifecyc... is even verging on being point and click off the shelf.

[Mr E]

Manners79 said:

Yes, and it’s part of my job and way way way more complex than simply hitting the frequencies with noise. And I’m not going to say any more for obvious security / IP reasons!

I’ve done many years in wireless comms, so I’m genuinely interested.

Obviously I understand the IP/security aspects. Any publicly available stuff I can read?

[Byker28i]

Rider007 said:

I was watching the Olympic opening ceremony and saw a soldier carrying a strange looking rifle. Seems it's a portable RF jamming device for shutting down drones https://www.mc2-technologies.com/en/nerod-rf/

Yes seen those before, mentioned in the Ukraine thread I think as used in other scenarios

[Byker28i]

thegreenhell said:

I prefer this Dutch method

Did you see the Ukraine drone with a stick attached trying to take out the propeller on the russian UAV

[Byker28i]

Manners79 said:

Mr E said:

Suggests that “commercially available” drones have a backdoor?

It would be pretty trivial to encrypt, and frankly if I were doing something nefarious I’d ensure the device was autonomous (I.e. no control link to disrupt)

This piece had the whiff of security theatre - or the author has regurgitated a press release without understanding what it means

Anyone know the technical details?

Yes, and it’s part of my job and way way way more complex than simply hitting the frequencies with noise. And I’m not going to say any more for obvious security / IP reasons!

Thanks, posted as I found it interesting it was being used at F1, but I suppose if protestors can get on track, they could use drones to disrupt, even simple things like flying banners etc?

[Manners79]

robscot said:

No need to dress it up and be vague there is plenty of public info on GPS spoofing and effectively cracks for the common commercial stuff to take control etc etc.

The stuff some public sector uses eg. https://d-fendsolutions.com/drone-incident-lifecyc... is even verging on being point and click off the shelf.

I’m not ‘dressing it up’. I’m contributing within the confines of the security and IP restrictions I’m legally bound by. But hey, you do you

[Manners79]

Mr E said:

I’ve done many years in wireless comms, so I’m genuinely interested.

Obviously I understand the IP/security aspects. Any publicly available stuff I can read?

Find a few ‘CUAS’ (counter Uncrewed Aerial Systems) companies on LinkedIn and look for their ‘white papers’ would be a pretty good starting point.

Lots of the publicly available info is pretty good, albeit tends to be biased toward the tech of the company that published it

[sleepezy]

I went to look at a business about 5 years ago that was developing mil spec drone jamming and overriding tech (possibly the same the other poster works at, can't be many) so the capability has been around for some time, although I'd guess there's a constant battle between increased security and improved override controls.

Back then, presuming everything I was being told was true (bear in mind they were looking for investment) it was already impressive what could be achieved, right up to and including "return to sender" stuff.

I am not being vague though, I understood very little of what they were trying to explain! The main guy who ran the business operated on a different planet to me.

[DirktheDaring]

Manners79 said:

I’m not ‘dressing it up’. I’m contributing within the confines of the security and IP restrictions I’m legally bound by. But hey, you do you

G15 Girl is back!

[Gazzas86]

Mr E said:

So a wide band blanket of RF to swamp the carrier (or, hugely degrade the signal/noise ratio) would impair/break the control link. That’ll work.

It won’t allow control to be taken over.

Kind of, it's not a case of swamping a wide band blanket of RF, because as soon as you do that, most modern COTS drones will jump to a different band.
The key is to monitor the RF spectrum covering 2.4/5.8GHz and using algorithms to look at the frequency hopping pattern that the drone uses,
Once you see the pattern you can then pass the information to the jammer and take it down that way.