993 stereos and Blaupunkt nostalgia
Discussion
I have finally traced my demon battery drain to my Blaupunkt Travelpilot E that was retrofitted in 2006 at a fitted cost of £500. It is not period correct, it is old and it has no in-built connectivity, so I thought I would just replace it. After much machinating, I bought a well-discounted top-of-the-range new Blaupunkt Bremen SQ46 for the princely sum of £325 (RRP about £500).
After loads of research I concluded there is no good information on getting a retro stereo with serious hi fi sound. Continental/VDO seemed the sensible option but I was concerned about replacing an expensive Blaupunkt made in Germany, with a Chinese built value unit costing £125. The Bremen is also made in China but I figured I will get a lot more for the premium price.
When I plugged it in, to my horror it sounded nowhere near as good as the 22 year old throw-away unit I was discarding!! One caveat is that the comparison might have been slightly unfair as I had to compare the old one using its CD player, with the new model streaming Bluetooth from my phone. I will do more tests but the top dollar Bremen definitely sounded unremarkable. I am wondering if they use the same quality amps in all units costing £100-£500 and you are paying the much higher price just for all the bells and whistles, which look great on the dash but I do not need.
So, my first question is, when did Blaupunkt lose its quality? My old unit states Made in Germany in mid 2000s. Tracing EBay sales I found another made in Malaysia in 1994 and I was wondering if high end models were made in Germany and lesser models in Malaysia? Another 2013 unit was Made in China. The original company was sold to another German company in 2009 and they went bankrupt in 2015. Now the name is “licensed out” to make various products - not a good sign, I guess! The modern problem seems to be that as soon as modern tech standards were reached (Bluetooth, USB, Aux), standards of the original high quality units was dropping.
So what do I do now? Choices are:
1. Buy similar BP unit to the one I am replacing, for peanuts on EBay
2. Buy a second hand 90s reconditioned BP with Bluetooth fitted on EBay for £250 (1994 Casablanca CM62, made in Malaysia)
3. Buy period inauthentic but great sounding Kenwood/Alpine/Pioneer even if it looks like a Christmas tree
4. Buy cheap but reliable Continental and possibly give up my hi fi quality.
5. Fix battery drain on stereo I already own!
And also what would help the community in future when upgrading/replacing their stereos?
1. A list of which BPs, Beckers, etc were fitted in 993s in what periods, including hi fi upgrade systems.
2. An idea of which BPs were the top models, which were poor and what they might have cost as the time.
3. Confirmation of whether quality at Blaupunkt was affected by the sale in 2009 and whether high end models were made in Germany. This could identify sought after models accurately.
4. List of reputable reconditioned unit technicians. Original units with modern tech retro-fitted!
5. Expert reviews of the newer models of BPs, Continentals, etc
I have not even mentioned PCCM as the price is too ridiculous.
Thanks kids!
After loads of research I concluded there is no good information on getting a retro stereo with serious hi fi sound. Continental/VDO seemed the sensible option but I was concerned about replacing an expensive Blaupunkt made in Germany, with a Chinese built value unit costing £125. The Bremen is also made in China but I figured I will get a lot more for the premium price.
When I plugged it in, to my horror it sounded nowhere near as good as the 22 year old throw-away unit I was discarding!! One caveat is that the comparison might have been slightly unfair as I had to compare the old one using its CD player, with the new model streaming Bluetooth from my phone. I will do more tests but the top dollar Bremen definitely sounded unremarkable. I am wondering if they use the same quality amps in all units costing £100-£500 and you are paying the much higher price just for all the bells and whistles, which look great on the dash but I do not need.
So, my first question is, when did Blaupunkt lose its quality? My old unit states Made in Germany in mid 2000s. Tracing EBay sales I found another made in Malaysia in 1994 and I was wondering if high end models were made in Germany and lesser models in Malaysia? Another 2013 unit was Made in China. The original company was sold to another German company in 2009 and they went bankrupt in 2015. Now the name is “licensed out” to make various products - not a good sign, I guess! The modern problem seems to be that as soon as modern tech standards were reached (Bluetooth, USB, Aux), standards of the original high quality units was dropping.
So what do I do now? Choices are:
1. Buy similar BP unit to the one I am replacing, for peanuts on EBay
2. Buy a second hand 90s reconditioned BP with Bluetooth fitted on EBay for £250 (1994 Casablanca CM62, made in Malaysia)
3. Buy period inauthentic but great sounding Kenwood/Alpine/Pioneer even if it looks like a Christmas tree
4. Buy cheap but reliable Continental and possibly give up my hi fi quality.
5. Fix battery drain on stereo I already own!
And also what would help the community in future when upgrading/replacing their stereos?
1. A list of which BPs, Beckers, etc were fitted in 993s in what periods, including hi fi upgrade systems.
2. An idea of which BPs were the top models, which were poor and what they might have cost as the time.
3. Confirmation of whether quality at Blaupunkt was affected by the sale in 2009 and whether high end models were made in Germany. This could identify sought after models accurately.
4. List of reputable reconditioned unit technicians. Original units with modern tech retro-fitted!
5. Expert reviews of the newer models of BPs, Continentals, etc
I have not even mentioned PCCM as the price is too ridiculous.
Thanks kids!
Edited by chrisgaia on Sunday 24th November 21:25
I have an SQ46 in my 928.
It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
Scrump said:
Thanks Scrump, yes I bought the one featured in all the ads. Just rather disappointed with sound compared to my old one.Castrol for a knave said:
I have an SQ46 in my 928.
It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
Thanks Castrol, I was thinking of adding an amp to the Bremen as I absolutely love the look! But the old Blaupunkt did not really need any extra gear. It just sounded great as is so I did not really want to go through all the hassle and expense of modifying. I have great speakers fitted by Auto Audios.It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
One other thing…I could not get the unit to automatically switch to Bluetooth streaming when i enter car. It connects automatically to phone but then I have to press the selected button 4 or 5 times. I was also annoyed at that. Do you have a fix for that?
So many questions... IMO some new stuff today is made as cheap as possible yet still costs too much.
Many bits of audio electronics were at their best in the 80s and 90s, when people interested in music spent most of their money on Hifi, rather than iphones or 90inch TV or xboxes, and competition was high and British and Japanese companies fought it out for the top spots. Consumers wanted sound quality over convenience, and so that is what the manufacturers delivered.
Times change.....
However - for you to compare like with like, first you have to rip a CD using a decent bit of (free) software such as EAC - Exact Audio Copy.
It's a pain to set-up, but the actual conversion quality is (apparently) one of the best. You will then end up with decent quality but convenient music, and even an MP3 with 320 kbps should show whatever the hardware is capable of. Or you can save your recordings in a higher kbps, or lossless; these files are simply larger in size, which may be a problem, or it may not.
Did that all sound like geek nonsense? Well it is, but doing a bit of learning at your age isn't a bad thing. Do internet search thing to find tutorials on EAC.
It is a long time ago now, but I swopped my 993's original Blaupunkt for a VDO(Continental), which incidentally has a CD player, and I thought the sound quality ( back then playing a CD to compare old with new ) was as good if not better.
Many bits of audio electronics were at their best in the 80s and 90s, when people interested in music spent most of their money on Hifi, rather than iphones or 90inch TV or xboxes, and competition was high and British and Japanese companies fought it out for the top spots. Consumers wanted sound quality over convenience, and so that is what the manufacturers delivered.
Times change.....
However - for you to compare like with like, first you have to rip a CD using a decent bit of (free) software such as EAC - Exact Audio Copy.
It's a pain to set-up, but the actual conversion quality is (apparently) one of the best. You will then end up with decent quality but convenient music, and even an MP3 with 320 kbps should show whatever the hardware is capable of. Or you can save your recordings in a higher kbps, or lossless; these files are simply larger in size, which may be a problem, or it may not.
Did that all sound like geek nonsense? Well it is, but doing a bit of learning at your age isn't a bad thing. Do internet search thing to find tutorials on EAC.
It is a long time ago now, but I swopped my 993's original Blaupunkt for a VDO(Continental), which incidentally has a CD player, and I thought the sound quality ( back then playing a CD to compare old with new ) was as good if not better.
Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 25th November 10:01
Koln-RS said:
Ignoring the 911 cabin’s poor acoustics, for sound quality, is the issue not as much the speakers as the head unit ?
But guess most people would want to keep the original ‘look’ ?
Definitely! I have great speakers fitted by Auto Audio 10 years ago and it made the world of difference. My difficulty is chucking away a great sounding unit and paying out a lot of cash for a worse sounding but better looking one.But guess most people would want to keep the original ‘look’ ?
I actually have a rag-top but even roof down a good stereo makes a difference. You really need one, in fact.
I probably should mention that I blew my whole student loan for a year on a Linn amp and Epos speakers for my bedroom in 1992…. Gentlemen of a certain age get a bit fussy, forgive me.
Orangecurry said:
So many questions... IMO some new stuff today is made as cheap as possible yet still costs too much.
Got to keep you on your toes, OC :-DOrangecurry said:
Many bits of audio electronics were at their best in the 80s and 90s, when people interested in music spent most of their money on Hifi, rather than iphones or 90inch TV or xboxes, and competition was high and British and Japanese companies fought it out for the top spots. Consumers wanted sound quality over convenience, and so that is what the manufacturers delivered.
Exactly, see student loan admission above.Orangecurry said:
Times change.....
However - for you to compare like with like, first you have to rip a CD using a decent bit of (free) software such as EAC - Exact Audio Copy.
It's a pain to set-up, but the actual conversion quality is (apparently) one of the best. You will then end up with decent quality but convenient music, and even an MP3 with 320 kbps should show whatever the hardware is capable of. Or you can save your recordings in a higher kbps, or lossless; these files are simply larger in size, which may be a problem, or it may not.
Did that all sound like geek nonsense? Well it is, but doing a bit of learning at your age isn't a bad thing. Do internet search thing to find tutorials on EAC.
Fellow Geek! I ripped all my CDs with Apple Lossless codec and organised them beautifully until my family forced Spotify on me and I have barely listened to them since.However - for you to compare like with like, first you have to rip a CD using a decent bit of (free) software such as EAC - Exact Audio Copy.
It's a pain to set-up, but the actual conversion quality is (apparently) one of the best. You will then end up with decent quality but convenient music, and even an MP3 with 320 kbps should show whatever the hardware is capable of. Or you can save your recordings in a higher kbps, or lossless; these files are simply larger in size, which may be a problem, or it may not.
Did that all sound like geek nonsense? Well it is, but doing a bit of learning at your age isn't a bad thing. Do internet search thing to find tutorials on EAC.
Orangecurry said:
It is a long time ago now, but I swopped my 993's original Blaupunkt for a VDO(Continental), which incidentally has a CD player, and I thought the sound quality ( back then playing a CD to compare old with new ) was as good if not better.
That is really interesting! Which BP was it? I do wonder if that weird looking mid-2000s thing I have is possibly a superb sounding stereo. Time wise they could have been at the peak of their game before the fall.Edited by Orangecurry on Monday 25th November 10:01[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by chrisgaia on Monday 25th November 14:31chrisgaia said:
gareth h said:
I’ve got the Continental head unit in my 993 with Audison speakers and it’s perfectly adequate considering how noisy the cabin is.
I keep hearing about that unit! I also noticed for the first time all the instruments are VDO!!Continental is good and streams well from my iPhone. Internet radio, Spotify etc. As I have previously posted, it's not that loud.
When I bought my ex-PCGB/AFN car it was fitted with a Sony with a million tiny buttons and front-mounted CD player. I am sure original and I believe that was standard in the UK ca. 1995. Same on all VW-Audi as a contract. Top of the range one. Sony XR-C620RDS with CDX-705 Cdx 605 CD player.
Reason I took it out was the tiny buttons and CD player was pretty useless. I have kept it. Then went through some eBay Blaupunkts that looked good but did not work well and ended up with the Continental. My aerial is not right but there is not much I would listen to on FM anyway.
When I bought my ex-PCGB/AFN car it was fitted with a Sony with a million tiny buttons and front-mounted CD player. I am sure original and I believe that was standard in the UK ca. 1995. Same on all VW-Audi as a contract. Top of the range one. Sony XR-C620RDS with CDX-705 Cdx 605 CD player.
Reason I took it out was the tiny buttons and CD player was pretty useless. I have kept it. Then went through some eBay Blaupunkts that looked good but did not work well and ended up with the Continental. My aerial is not right but there is not much I would listen to on FM anyway.
...apologies I probably used too many words above and didn't impart critical info.....
My 993 has the Hi-fi option, so IIRC there is a separate amplifier that will be being used no matter what head-unit is the source.
If your 2000s head-unit also does all of the amplification, then yes it's entirely possible that your sound quality will go down with any modern head-unit.
My 993 has the Hi-fi option, so IIRC there is a separate amplifier that will be being used no matter what head-unit is the source.
If your 2000s head-unit also does all of the amplification, then yes it's entirely possible that your sound quality will go down with any modern head-unit.
Orangecurry said:
...apologies I probably used too many words above and didn't impart critical info.....
My 993 has the Hi-fi option, so IIRC there is a separate amplifier that will be being used no matter what head-unit is the source.
If your 2000s head-unit also does all of the amplification, then yes it's entirely possible that your sound quality will go down with any modern head-unit.
Thanks for that - long time ago when we we all fiddling around with car stereos usually after they had been pinched! Job for next year. My 993 has the Hi-fi option, so IIRC there is a separate amplifier that will be being used no matter what head-unit is the source.
If your 2000s head-unit also does all of the amplification, then yes it's entirely possible that your sound quality will go down with any modern head-unit.
I have a couple of 993 audio related questions:
I have an original Porsche (Becker) CD player in my 993 convertible - CD player has stopped working, does anyone know of anyone who repairs them.
Also the actual sound is pretty terrible, and I suspect the speakers are kaput. Any recommendations for standard sized replacements ?
I have an original Porsche (Becker) CD player in my 993 convertible - CD player has stopped working, does anyone know of anyone who repairs them.
Also the actual sound is pretty terrible, and I suspect the speakers are kaput. Any recommendations for standard sized replacements ?
chrisgaia said:
Castrol for a knave said:
I have an SQ46 in my 928.
It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
Thanks Castrol, I was thinking of adding an amp to the Bremen as I absolutely love the look! But the old Blaupunkt did not really need any extra gear. It just sounded great as is so I did not really want to go through all the hassle and expense of modifying. I have great speakers fitted by Auto Audios.It has a pretty decent sound, although I have replaced all the speakers and have a sub.
It also runs through the original Blaupunkt amp, which gives it a nice mellow analogue sound.
It might be as you say, comparing CD quality at 1,400 kbps with compressed MP3 via bluetooth at 360kbps.
One other thing…I could not get the unit to automatically switch to Bluetooth streaming when i enter car. It connects automatically to phone but then I have to press the selected button 4 or 5 times. I was also annoyed at that. Do you have a fix for that?
There was an update file for ot, though if yours is new it should he up to date
I enable twinconnect and that usually does the trick.
Will see what mine is set to and report back..
Bluetooth is very lossy and yes, may well be 200 odd kbps..
My 993 cab is so acoustically challenged by rattles, squeaks, engine noise and wind noise that sound system quality has never been high on my list of wishes or expectations.
The car came with a period Becker Indianapolis Pro head unit installed and I've plugged an aftermarket bluetooth adaptor into it so I just play Spotify through it.
I think it looks right for the car, gives total flexibility on music choice from my phone and the sound quality is "good enough" given the background noise.
The car came with a period Becker Indianapolis Pro head unit installed and I've plugged an aftermarket bluetooth adaptor into it so I just play Spotify through it.
I think it looks right for the car, gives total flexibility on music choice from my phone and the sound quality is "good enough" given the background noise.
Rennlist is absolutely the best place for any technical info and help on the older cars, including musical playback devices.
However, the specific kit, speakers, connections, raw materials, are mostly available only in the US of A.
But if you trawl through, you can find the exact speaker sizes and best practice, and replace e.g. speaker with European versions (Focal is one), or I guess you can order a wodge of stuff from across the Pond and, if quick, pay reasonable levels of pre-Donald Import Tax
However, the specific kit, speakers, connections, raw materials, are mostly available only in the US of A.
But if you trawl through, you can find the exact speaker sizes and best practice, and replace e.g. speaker with European versions (Focal is one), or I guess you can order a wodge of stuff from across the Pond and, if quick, pay reasonable levels of pre-Donald Import Tax
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