How much of a mess are we really in?
Discussion
I moved back to the Uk from France 6 months ago and it all seems to have gone pear shaped.
The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
smifffymoto said:
I moved back to the Uk from France 6 months ago and it all seems to have gone pear shaped.
The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
I don't think France is fairing any better with their political turmoil...The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
I don’t really think things are any really any worse or better than any time before, not just in the UK but globally, it’s just there’s much more news, expectation (some v unrealistic), polarisation of politics/views etc
There has always and will be duff politicians and governments, dictators invading smaller neighbours, global posturing, world police, financial markets going up/down, people winning/losing etc. in my memory I’d say things today are much much better than the 80s and 90s.
There has always and will be duff politicians and governments, dictators invading smaller neighbours, global posturing, world police, financial markets going up/down, people winning/losing etc. in my memory I’d say things today are much much better than the 80s and 90s.
smifffymoto said:
I moved back to the Uk from France 6 months ago and it all seems to have gone pear shaped.
The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
The minimum wage is about to be £25.4k/annum and the median salary is just £37k. That gap is relatively small. I don't think you become a net contributor to the country until you earn >£45k, so less than 40% of workers contribute more than they take. That's scary. The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
The stagnant economy and low wage growth since 2010 or so is a massive problem for us. Austerity's long term impact followed by COVID and Ukraine are starting to bite.
We are in a lot worse position that any politicians can admit. Instead we blame Rachel Reeves rather than acknowledge that. We have long lived beyond our means, the employee NI reduction being a good example of that, and we have not been able to increase salaries.
What do we do? Well there would be an immediate financial benefit of returning to the EU in some form, but that's off the table as it has been weaponised. Building more houses will definitely help. We need to stop this ludicrous life long tax for going to university (engineers, doctors etc. graduating with 70-80k debt).
Successive UK governments have become obsessed with using tax revenue to buy votes rather than investing in either services or infrastructure which has diminished the economic stimulus that comes from government spending and reduced the long term productivity gains from it.
The Conservatives in their years in office were obsessed with spend on the retired - triple lock pensions, pensioner bonds, tax free allowances, ISA limits etc.
Labour (both in Blair guise and with the current government) have similar largesse cash spends, but to a different voting base. Their target seems to be public sector workers and lower-income workers - tax credits, public sector wage increases etc.
The old phrases like 'teach a man to fish' and 'trade not aid' seem to have fallen by the wayside in the clamour to reward core voters.
The Conservatives in their years in office were obsessed with spend on the retired - triple lock pensions, pensioner bonds, tax free allowances, ISA limits etc.
Labour (both in Blair guise and with the current government) have similar largesse cash spends, but to a different voting base. Their target seems to be public sector workers and lower-income workers - tax credits, public sector wage increases etc.
The old phrases like 'teach a man to fish' and 'trade not aid' seem to have fallen by the wayside in the clamour to reward core voters.
oyster said:
Successive UK governments have become obsessed with using tax revenue to buy votes rather than investing in either services or infrastructure which has diminished the economic stimulus that comes from government spending and reduced the long term productivity gains from it.
The Conservatives in their years in office were obsessed with spend on the retired - triple lock pensions, pensioner bonds, tax free allowances, ISA limits etc.
Labour (both in Blair guise and with the current government) have similar largesse cash spends, but to a different voting base. Their target seems to be public sector workers and lower-income workers - tax credits, public sector wage increases etc.
The old phrases like 'teach a man to fish' and 'trade not aid' seem to have fallen by the wayside in the clamour to reward core voters.
Likely true.The Conservatives in their years in office were obsessed with spend on the retired - triple lock pensions, pensioner bonds, tax free allowances, ISA limits etc.
Labour (both in Blair guise and with the current government) have similar largesse cash spends, but to a different voting base. Their target seems to be public sector workers and lower-income workers - tax credits, public sector wage increases etc.
The old phrases like 'teach a man to fish' and 'trade not aid' seem to have fallen by the wayside in the clamour to reward core voters.
It's evident that business is a cash cow for both.
The UK is becoming a 2 tier society, much like parts of the 3rd world are. There are those that have great purchasing power, either from family wealth or self made money, and those that just about survive, either with a job that pays enough for rent and a little bit of luxury, or on benefits of sorts. I think this divide will continue and get bigger over time.
smifffymoto said:
I moved back to the Uk from France 6 months ago and it all seems to have gone pear shaped.
The Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
Is it worth the aggravationThe Government doesn’t seem to know what the best course of action is to stimulate the economy and steady the ship.
If it doesn’t improve,where will we .
Both my kids think , ‘what’s the point,we won’t own our home and all the jobs advertised are minimum wage’.
They see no hope and they aren’t alone.
To find yourself a job when there's nothing worth working for?
It's a crazy situation
But all I need are cigarettes and alcohol!
Oasis 1994
Rufus Stone said:
Likely true.
It's evident that business is a cash cow for both.
The one that boils my piss is SKS saying “the broadest shoulders should bear the heavier burden”. It's not true - what he really meant to say is "We can't make the rich pay more tax as they are smarter than us, and we can't touch their money, so the PAYE folk and small business owners at higher rates of tax should pay more"It's evident that business is a cash cow for both.
Has it really gone pear shaped? Ignoring what politicians, media, social media tell us have our lives gone pear shaped?
Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
pghstochaj said:
The minimum wage is about to be £25.4k/annum and the median salary is just £37k. That gap is relatively small. I don't think you become a net contributor to the country until you earn >£45k, so less than 40% of workers contribute more than they take. That's scary.
On that note. We need a more graduated income tax e.g. starting at 20% to 40% at a much higher threshold (think it’s around 6 times the minimum wage in the US).Going well then Smiffy! I wont do the dance
As bad as france is and worse than it was, its better than the uk as its not as crowded and the weather is better but thats about it.
We’re off and although we’ll still own property in france and uk, they will never be home again, or anywhere else for that matter as we think now is the time to just continually move on to areas with fewer issues, so remain mobile until care time kicks in.
As bad as france is and worse than it was, its better than the uk as its not as crowded and the weather is better but thats about it.
We’re off and although we’ll still own property in france and uk, they will never be home again, or anywhere else for that matter as we think now is the time to just continually move on to areas with fewer issues, so remain mobile until care time kicks in.
Chrisgr31 said:
Has it really gone pear shaped? Ignoring what politicians, media, social media tell us have our lives gone pear shaped?
Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
Might come true. Current government needs to hold its nerve in the face of the stirring. The government had said very, very little, which isn't particularly surprising as neither the PM or Chancellor are exactly great orators. This has ceded the ground to a handful of opposition politicians who themselves have precisely nothing to offer ... except criticism. The challenge for Labour is to decide if it's better to just let them prattle on in the hope the public get bored, or do you risk giving the criticism credibility by trying to counter it? Personally I'd suggest they just try to set the agenda themselves. Get another story out there. But they're a charisma vacuum.Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
You need to give a government about 2 years before you can begin to judge their impact on the economy because that's the sort of time it takes the economy to react to policy. That's reality. The news agenda has a half-life of about a week.
pghstochaj said:
The minimum wage is about to be £25.4k/annum and the median salary is just £37k. That gap is relatively small. I don't think you become a net contributor to the country until you earn >£45k, so less than 40% of workers contribute more than they take. That's scary.
The stagnant economy and low wage growth since 2010 or so is a massive problem for us. Austerity's long term impact followed by COVID and Ukraine are starting to bite.
We are in a lot worse position that any politicians can admit. Instead we blame Rachel Reeves rather than acknowledge that. We have long lived beyond our means, the employee NI reduction being a good example of that, and we have not been able to increase salaries.
What do we do? Well there would be an immediate financial benefit of returning to the EU in some form, but that's off the table as it has been weaponised. Building more houses will definitely help. We need to stop this ludicrous life long tax for going to university (engineers, doctors etc. graduating with 70-80k debt).
The difference in take home pay for minimum wage versus the median average is £660 a month. A quick check online and the benefits that can be claimed between the two amounts the about £330 a month (single parent, renting, 1 child) So the difference is £330 a month. The stagnant economy and low wage growth since 2010 or so is a massive problem for us. Austerity's long term impact followed by COVID and Ukraine are starting to bite.
We are in a lot worse position that any politicians can admit. Instead we blame Rachel Reeves rather than acknowledge that. We have long lived beyond our means, the employee NI reduction being a good example of that, and we have not been able to increase salaries.
What do we do? Well there would be an immediate financial benefit of returning to the EU in some form, but that's off the table as it has been weaponised. Building more houses will definitely help. We need to stop this ludicrous life long tax for going to university (engineers, doctors etc. graduating with 70-80k debt).
Go on indeed and every job over £35k has the titles like analyst or manager, requires qualifications and a hell of a lot of responsibility. whereas the £25k range theirs plenty of receptionist, shelf stacker, shop assistant etc.
Why would you take on all of that potential study and or responsibility for £80 extra a week, I'd hazard a guess a lot will just side hustle the difference.
There's the issue in this country, those numbers basically point at why bother aspiring to anything
fido said:
pghstochaj said:
The minimum wage is about to be £25.4k/annum and the median salary is just £37k. That gap is relatively small. I don't think you become a net contributor to the country until you earn >£45k, so less than 40% of workers contribute more than they take. That's scary.
On that note. We need a more graduated income tax e.g. starting at 20% to 40% at a much higher threshold (think it’s around 6 times the minimum wage in the US).Chrisgr31 said:
Has it really gone pear shaped? Ignoring what politicians, media, social media tell us have our lives gone pear shaped?
Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
My question was to ask the OP if it has actually gone pear shaped in the last 6 months or if it was already like that? I'd argue it was the latter.Are we all unable to afford what we could afford, are we all unemployed, are we all taking pay cuts etc?
Or is it all been stirred by a bunch of self interested parties who by stirring it are raising such uncertainties their prophecies will become true?
Id say the UK is about 20 years ahead of germany (where I live atm) on the decay path. I'm in the UK twice a year for the last 14 years and one can easily gauge the downward trajectory. It is very clear, and it's only natural to pretend its not happening or try to normalise it.
Of course the other Euro countries aren't perfect, but most likely you've only heard the overly dramaticised news stories about political chaos etc. Meanwhile, the important things that affect quality of life are ticking away very nicely.
In the UK, the drab mediocrity and failing management is evident almost as soon as you're off the plane. I hear about the state of all the services and infrastructure from friends and family. I directly witness interactions with my ageing parents and the NHS etc, and it's very worrying.
I don't think its being destroyed on purpose, it's merely incompetence which stems from the basic fact we'll vote absolute cretins into power and tolerate their woeful management for decades. UK politics is entirely resistant to any change. The entire system of governance needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.
Some basic things I would have thought were obvious:
You can't grow the population so rapidly and expect any growth in salaries. Quite the opposite.
We can all pat ourselves on the back for net zero progress, but higher energy costs forces industry overseas. But we've technically reduced our emissions, for some reason. Ignoring the fact that most of our carbon footprint is in China etc.
Printing money directly causes inflation.
We've sold out loads of key utilities to foreign investment. Surprise, surprise they're milking our services to subsidise their own.
You can't import loads more people without scaling health services and basic infrastructure like sewage and water.
Institutions go to enormous lengths to arse-cover but provide their basic services on glacial timescales.
People at the top of these scandals seem to get away with incredibly heinous acts of cowardice.
Paying skilled people way less than other countries, then moaning about brain drain.
Surveillance and free speech being curtailed, ratcheting us towards a dystopian emptiness managed by grey-sludge-jobsworth AI state.
Politicians who'll opt for a couple thousand votes over the moral option.
rant over can't be arred
Of course the other Euro countries aren't perfect, but most likely you've only heard the overly dramaticised news stories about political chaos etc. Meanwhile, the important things that affect quality of life are ticking away very nicely.
In the UK, the drab mediocrity and failing management is evident almost as soon as you're off the plane. I hear about the state of all the services and infrastructure from friends and family. I directly witness interactions with my ageing parents and the NHS etc, and it's very worrying.
I don't think its being destroyed on purpose, it's merely incompetence which stems from the basic fact we'll vote absolute cretins into power and tolerate their woeful management for decades. UK politics is entirely resistant to any change. The entire system of governance needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.
Some basic things I would have thought were obvious:
You can't grow the population so rapidly and expect any growth in salaries. Quite the opposite.
We can all pat ourselves on the back for net zero progress, but higher energy costs forces industry overseas. But we've technically reduced our emissions, for some reason. Ignoring the fact that most of our carbon footprint is in China etc.
Printing money directly causes inflation.
We've sold out loads of key utilities to foreign investment. Surprise, surprise they're milking our services to subsidise their own.
You can't import loads more people without scaling health services and basic infrastructure like sewage and water.
Institutions go to enormous lengths to arse-cover but provide their basic services on glacial timescales.
People at the top of these scandals seem to get away with incredibly heinous acts of cowardice.
Paying skilled people way less than other countries, then moaning about brain drain.
Surveillance and free speech being curtailed, ratcheting us towards a dystopian emptiness managed by grey-sludge-jobsworth AI state.
Politicians who'll opt for a couple thousand votes over the moral option.
rant over can't be arred
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff