House sold without owner's knowledge

[Countdown]

Man whose house was 'stolen' gets possession back

How on earth can this happen? Surely there must have been a failure of some kind of checks or controls? Is it just plain and simple ID theft?

[paddy1970]

Only need:
A fake driving license used to impersonate Mr. Hall
A bank account set up in his name to receive the sale proceeds

...Easy

[Countdown]

paddy1970 said:

Only need:
A fake driving license used to impersonate Mr. Hall
A bank account set up in his name to receive the sale proceeds

...Easy

The driving license or passport will need their picture on it. Also when you're setting up a bank account i thought they did fairly detailed KYC checks?

[119]

Thread title.

[wombat172a]

Countdown said:

paddy1970 said:

Only need:
A fake driving license used to impersonate Mr. Hall
A bank account set up in his name to receive the sale proceeds

...Easy

The driving license or passport will need their picture on it. Also when you're setting up a bank account i thought they did fairly detailed KYC checks?

They are supposed to do detailed KYC checks. However, not all of them have been: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/02/s...

That may not have happened here, but it could have been a route.

[popeyewhite]

Countdown said:

paddy1970 said:

Only need:
A fake driving license used to impersonate Mr. Hall
A bank account set up in his name to receive the sale proceeds

...Easy

The driving license or passport will need their picture on it. Also when you're setting up a bank account i thought they did fairly detailed KYC checks?

Won't a solicitor need to see the Deeds? Check signatures etc?

[blueg33]

If there was no mortgage its probably quite easy to do with a fake ID.

Make me wonder if its worth having a small mortgage as they would have a charge over the property and provide an extra hurdle.

[popeyewhite]

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

[Mr Pointy]

blueg33 said:

If there was no mortgage its probably quite easy to do with a fake ID.

Make me wonder if its worth having a small mortgage as they would have a charge over the property and provide an extra hurdle.

As I'm sure you know you can set up email alerts from the Land Registry that will flag any activity on a property title.

[mwstewart]

It's easy to get fake documents that check out when a background check is run. There's a whole cottage industry supporting illegal immigration - some of it is brazenly advertised in the immigration advice Facebook groups.

[JQ]

popeyewhite said:

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

Indeed, I would guess the fraudster has walked away with the cash and the party defrauded out of the money will have put in a claim against the solicitor's insurer.

[blueg33]

Mr Pointy said:

blueg33 said:

If there was no mortgage its probably quite easy to do with a fake ID.

Make me wonder if its worth having a small mortgage as they would have a charge over the property and provide an extra hurdle.

As I'm sure you know you can set up email alerts from the Land Registry that will flag any activity on a property title.

Indeed. However they can be missed. A legal document from a mortgagee requiring a signature is more of a warning.

I am sure that the criminals who do this look for properties that have been in long ownership and don't have a mortgage. All info thats readily available.

[Gareth79]

JQ said:

popeyewhite said:

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

Indeed, I would guess the fraudster has walked away with the cash and the party defrauded out of the money will have put in a claim against the solicitor's insurer.

The Land Registry paid out to the person who owned the house at the time of him discovering the problem.

[popeyewhite]

Gareth79 said:

JQ said:

popeyewhite said:

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

Indeed, I would guess the fraudster has walked away with the cash and the party defrauded out of the money will have put in a claim against the solicitor's insurer.

The Land Registry paid out to the person who owned the house at the time of him discovering the problem.

Sorry, what do you mean?

[Gareth79]

popeyewhite said:

Gareth79 said:

JQ said:

popeyewhite said:

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

Indeed, I would guess the fraudster has walked away with the cash and the party defrauded out of the money will have put in a claim against the solicitor's insurer.

The Land Registry paid out to the person who owned the house at the time of him discovering the problem.

Sorry, what do you mean?

The house ownership was returned to Rev Hall, and the Land Registry compensated the previous owners.

[popeyewhite]

Gareth79 said:

popeyewhite said:

Gareth79 said:

JQ said:

popeyewhite said:

I think the solicitor should have established vendor identity. Surely that's part of their remit.

Indeed, I would guess the fraudster has walked away with the cash and the party defrauded out of the money will have put in a claim against the solicitor's insurer.

The Land Registry paid out to the person who owned the house at the time of him discovering the problem.

Sorry, what do you mean?

The house ownership was returned to Rev Hall, and the Land Registry compensated the previous owners.

Ah thank you. An admission of mistakes made by the LR? Has it stopped there?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Something really dodgy a out someone attending court with a child.

You could argue that they were there as a tenant to see if they were going to be made homeless (well 100% yes) or the person who sold the house within their circle has a strong interest in the house and it's loss?

Buy it from a friend with a loan. The loser is who?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

119 said:

Thread title.

[oddman]

Whole sorry tale has been covered by R4 You and Yours programme

Mr Hall is a minister. House is his childhood home in Luton and he worked in North Wales. Was tipped off by neighbour that someone was in his house. Returned to investigate and found builder doing major work. New 'owner' turns up and boots him out.

Somebody had broken in used his info to create a fake ID. Because sale was handled by solicitor, the new owner has legal title on land registry. Police erroneously give it the usual 'civil matter sir' so years of headache for poor Mr Hall who fights his own cause.

Lots of legal wrangling and Land registry eventually compensate. Final straw is as he can retake legal posession house is taken over by squatters who are clearly connected to wrongful owner as they work in his factory. Dodgy AF

[Hugo Stiglitz]

They would have had to crime it as per NCRS. There's mens rea for someone knowingly taking title fraudulently and using fake Identity to gain a financial advantage.

There's nothing civil about it. So if it wasn't crimed and investigated properly then the Minister could go to the IOPC over it.