Frameless windows - why?

Frameless windows - why?

Author
Discussion

Mars

Original Poster:

8,964 posts

220 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Subaru has persisted with frameless windows right through to my current MY05 Legacy. I read in one of the on-line magazine articles some implication that Subaru believed this was a positive thing, but no reasons were given.

American cars used to have them too. My uncle's 1969 Camaro had them, so that when the rear triangular windows were wound down, the entire side was open, with no mid-supporting frames. This isn't applicable on the Subaru so why continue with them? Don't you get a better door seal when you have a frame?

s.m.h.

5,733 posts

221 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
No frame!







looks better IMO, probably cheaper to make doors without frames.


Edited by s.m.h. on Wednesday 5th November 09:07

davemac250

4,499 posts

211 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
There was an arguement that wondowless doors makes access easier in car parks.

My Impreza had them, in tight spaces put the window down and I could get out without trying to squeeze through a tight gap. Then reach in through closed door and put window up.


WorAl

10,877 posts

194 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
im pretty sre that alot of sports cars have frameless windows....its easier to keep the lines lower and also would look stupid if you have a convertible with frames around the doors when the roof is down, no?

tribbles

4,016 posts

228 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
davemac250 said:
Then reach in through closed door and put window up.
Wouldn't your arm fall off?

smile

courtster

1,488 posts

222 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
New Alfa Mito has frameless doors, looks smashing!

fathomfive

10,121 posts

196 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
My old 406 Coupe had frameless doors, always felt a bit special getting out with the window down. God knows why. I'm sad like that.

kambites

68,184 posts

227 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Convertibles look a bit daft without them but I'm not convinced of the advantages in a tin-top unless it's a pillarless coupe.

Mike400

1,026 posts

237 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
As far as I can see the majority of cars that have them are also available as cabrios:

The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?

However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?

I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?


V8NRG

854 posts

249 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Mike400 said:
As far as I can see the majority of cars that have them are also available as cabrios:

The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?

However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?

I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?
I think this is right. A pluss point is it makes the lines of the car a lot cleaner and much easyer to clean too.

williamp

19,484 posts

279 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
I always wanted them after seeing Knightrider in the 80s. If Kitt had frameless windows, so did I...

I believe its styling, however most manufacturers have problems with sealing and minimising wind noise. Its a very expensive solution to a problem which doesnt really exist. A frame'd window is a lot easier to seal and maintain.

Mars

Original Poster:

8,964 posts

220 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
OK, so everyone is saying they are suitable for Cabrios, but who has heard of a Subaru Legacy Cabrio? Why does Subaru persist with frameless windows when they haven't EVER (as far as I can tell) made anything without a roof?

Davi

17,153 posts

226 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
I've heard argument that without window frames the pillars can be made stronger for the same given area.

Definitely take advantage of the window-down-exit in tight spaces though! Very handy.

ultegra

525 posts

212 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Having driven e36 M3s in both the coupe and saloon bodyshells, the most striking difference is the quietness of the saloon. The coupes A-pillars are very noisy in comparison. I put this down to the superior sealing achieved with the framed saloon doors which incorporate two rubber profiles rather than the coupe's single rubber profile.

Graham E

12,833 posts

192 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
tribbles said:
davemac250 said:
Then reach in through closed door and put window up.
Wouldn't your arm fall off?

smile
post of the day

s.m.h.

5,733 posts

221 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Along with pillarless doors are much flusher fitting, theres no frame to cause wind noise, no adjusting the window in the frame then frame/door to car.
I'd think its aero is alot better as well.

anonymous-user

60 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
It helps keep the centre of gravity low, which is a major design phylosophy to any Subaru with it's boxer engine layout.

neil_bolton

17,113 posts

270 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
They look really nice smile

However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off hehe

Also, down points: Glass needs to drop slightly when the doors open (on the E36 coupe anyway) and this can go wrong slightly if something fails, never mind the fact that the glass sticks to the seal in the winter and there's nothing that you can do!

But, at the end of the day, they look ace, especially when you open the doors with the windows down, ala Knight Rider biggrin

Murdock

406 posts

239 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
neil_bolton said:
However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off hehe
Precisely how I smashed my last pair of glasses. hehe

neil_bolton

17,113 posts

270 months

Wednesday 5th November 2008
quotequote all
Murdock said:
neil_bolton said:
However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off hehe
Precisely how I smashed my last pair of glasses. hehe
Friggin hurts doesn't it; those pointy corners can do some damage!

Even worse when your passenger/missus wets herself laughing at you. Anger/fuming wasn't the word biggrin