Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

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Discussion

V8RX7

20,106 posts

218 months

Wednesday 17th April 2019
quotequote all
R0G said:
You forgot to ask them about C&U reg 100

and how insurers view towing over the manufacturers max listed tow capacity

GTW is only one aspect of the towing laws
As mentioned above - it's irrelevant.

I don't see how they can comment on insurers views

All I and the majority care about is whether we will be fined if stopped - the clear answer is "no"

It is also in line with the advice I was given many years ago by VOSA.

I'm happy to pass his direct email address to you if you wish to pursue it further.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
quotequote all
Not irrelevant if you have an incident and the insurer voids the cover because the driver has exceeded what the vehicle was designed to do safely and exceeding safety brings it into C&U reg 100

You do not have to take my word for this - simply as the various authorities such as trafpol, DVSA, DVLA & the insurance bureau

As with anything - it is the choice of the driver what they do as long as they are prepared to accept any consequences


Mudfing

8 posts

21 months

Tuesday 14th May 2019
quotequote all
Hi all

I've read almost all this thread and I think I'm clear on the various rules. But just making sure before I actually start towing.

I have a B license obtained in 2007 and a small trailer with a Gross weight of 1300kg.

I want to tow the braked trailer with a Gross Weight of 1300kg with a Vauxhall combo van with a MAM of 2040kg - So the total combined MAM is 3340kg so I'm legally ok?

The only issue is the van's VIN plate states a max gross train weight of 3040kg and the V5 shows a max towing weight (braked) of 1000kg.

So while I have no intention of every towing anything other than my quad bike/mower (total weight of trailer 300kg and quad/mower 400kg = 700kg) does the fact my trailer has a gross weight higher than the 1000kg braked limit on my v5/vin mean I am now not legal - or would these be advisory? - provided I'm under the 3500kg total MAM I'm ok?

I have no intention of ever towing an actual weight higher than 700-800kg.

Thanks, any advice appreciated! smile

youngricharduk

160 posts

40 months

Tuesday 14th May 2019
quotequote all
Mudfing said:
Hi all

I've read almost all this thread and I think I'm clear on the various rules. But just making sure before I actually start towing.

I have a B license obtained in 2007 and a small trailer with a Gross weight of 1300kg.

I want to tow the braked trailer with a Gross Weight of 1300kg with a Vauxhall combo van with a MAM of 2040kg - So the total combined MAM is 3340kg so I'm legally ok?

The only issue is the van's VIN plate states a max gross train weight of 3040kg and the V5 shows a max towing weight (braked) of 1000kg.

So while I have no intention of every towing anything other than my quad bike/mower (total weight of trailer 300kg and quad/mower 400kg = 700kg) does the fact my trailer has a gross weight higher than the 1000kg braked limit on my v5/vin mean I am now not legal - or would these be advisory? - provided I'm under the 3500kg total MAM I'm ok?

I have no intention of ever towing an actual weight higher than 700-800kg.

Thanks, any advice appreciated! smile
As far as only holding B licence entitlement you're definitely within the law on that side, when it comes to the maximum towing weight of your van it's done on actual weights as opposed to gross potential weights so you're ok on that side aswell.

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Wednesday 15th May 2019
quotequote all
There is no law or rule which states that the plated weight of a trailer must be within the towing capacity of a vehicle

Anyone who says different needs to prove such by putting a link to such a law = never going to happen!

fastbikes76

1,875 posts

77 months

Sunday 21st July 2019
quotequote all
Question for the more knowledgeable on this subject,


My tow car Kerb is 2311 and the GVW is 2945kgs.

The Caravan I want is 875kgs Kerb with a MTPLM of 1122kgs.


I understand that takes me over the 3500kg limit of the B licence , but in reality I seriously doubt I will be lugging over 300kg's of additional luggage with me. If the total combined weight of the car, 'van and all contents are under the 3500kg limit, will I be ok or will they base it purely on the potential to carry more weight as the total GVW and MTPLM is 4067kgs?

Regards
Fb

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
fastbikes76 said:
Question for the more knowledgeable on this subject,


My tow car Kerb is 2311 and the GVW is 2945kgs.

The Caravan I want is 875kgs Kerb with a MTPLM of 1122kgs.


I understand that takes me over the 3500kg limit of the B licence , but in reality I seriously doubt I will be lugging over 300kg's of additional luggage with me. If the total combined weight of the car, 'van and all contents are under the 3500kg limit, will I be ok or will they base it purely on the potential to carry more weight as the total GVW and MTPLM is 4067kgs?

Regards
Fb
Licencing goes on the plated weights so at 4067kgs you are well over the 3500 limit for B licence towing

fastbikes76

1,875 posts

77 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
R0G said:
Licencing goes on the plated weights so at 4067kgs you are well over the 3500 limit for B licence towing
As I thought.. damn, trailer test for me it is before we take the ‘van on it’s first outing.
Thank you for confirming.

Fb

Slashmb

389 posts

212 months

Monday 12th August 2019
quotequote all
I have a scenario that a friend of mine needs clarifying.

He has bought a new car and now wants a caravan but I think the caravan he has chosen is too heavy for the car.

Audi A5 Sportback Black Edition

Unladen weight 1515kg

Gross weight limit 2120kg

Nose limit 80kg

Trailer weight limit 1900kg or 1700kg at 12% gradient

Caravan is a Swift Sprite Super Quattro FB

MIRO 1486kg

MTPLM 1711kg

Driver has grandfather rights on his license so no issues there.

My concern is the potential for an empty car and a full caravan giving 115% towing weight relationship between car and caravan. I understand this is unlikely since the car would have his family in it too plus all of their gear in the boot. He has towed before but never a caravan.

All he wants to know is if it’s legal. I want to know if it’s safe!

V8RX7

20,106 posts

218 months

Monday 12th August 2019
quotequote all
Slashmb said:
I have a scenario that a friend of mine needs clarifying.

He has bought a new car and now wants a caravan but I think the caravan he has chosen is too heavy for the car.

Audi A5 Sportback Black Edition

Unladen weight 1515kg

Gross weight limit 2120kg

Nose limit 80kg

Trailer weight limit 1900kg or 1700kg at 12% gradient

Caravan is a Swift Sprite Super Quattro FB

MIRO 1486kg

MTPLM 1711kg

Driver has grandfather rights on his license so no issues there.

My concern is the potential for an empty car and a full caravan giving 115% towing weight relationship between car and caravan. I understand this is unlikely since the car would have his family in it too plus all of their gear in the boot. He has towed before but never a caravan.

All he wants to know is if it’s legal. I want to know if it’s safe!
Trailer weight limit 1900kg or 1700kg at 12% gradient

Caravan MTPLM 1711kg

^^^That is all that matters - it's fine

An 1800kg Land Rover is allowed to tow 3500kg



R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Tuesday 13th August 2019
quotequote all
I agree - its ok

eltax91

8,473 posts

161 months

Thursday 3rd October 2019
quotequote all
Well, i finally sorted myself out and after 4 hours tuition yesterday, passed the B + E test today 4 minors! Hoorah

2 questions immediately pop into my head:-

1. What can i now tow, legally?

2. A mate who is admiring my track car (and new entitlement) from afar has suggested he would like to have a go. He's a lot less confident than I and wants much much more time behind the wheel. Now i have the entitlement, as long as I fit L plates and mirrors to the vehicle, and the towing capacity is within my entitlement, can i now "tutor" him on the road (in reality, give him some cheap wheel time)?

Cheers folks

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Friday 4th October 2019
quotequote all
eltax91 said:
Well, i finally sorted myself out and after 4 hours tuition yesterday, passed the B + E test today 4 minors! Hoorah

2 questions immediately pop into my head:-

1. What can i now tow, legally?

2. A mate who is admiring my track car (and new entitlement) from afar has suggested he would like to have a go. He's a lot less confident than I and wants much much more time behind the wheel. Now i have the entitlement, as long as I fit L plates and mirrors to the vehicle, and the towing capacity is within my entitlement, can i now "tutor" him on the road (in reality, give him some cheap wheel time)?

Cheers folks
WELL DONE ON PASSING BE
1 - whatever the towing capacity of the vehicle allows providing none of the plated weights are exceeded
2 - you need to have BE on your licence for 3 years and be over age 21 to supervise

w3526602

20 posts

114 months

Wednesday 12th February
quotequote all
Hi,

MY interpretation of one particular aspect of the rules. ...

... if the vehicle you are driving/towing exceeds the weight limit of your driving licence, then you are driving without a licence ... which voids your insurance. Discuss!

You will see on your Certificate of Insurance, that you are also not insured if you are "disqualified". Many yonks ago, I read about a court ruling, that said "disqualified" meant "by a court", NOT because DVLA had withdrawn your licence on medical grounds. But if you are going to "push" the rules, do your own research first.

I would be unhappy driving without "Legal Protection" on my insurance, I think it only adds £10 to your premium. I would not wish to be "acting for myself" in court, when my opponent is NOT paying for his aggressive barrister.

Example ... phone rings at 7.30AM. My wife telling me to write down the registration of the HGV that she was following. It had passed her on the inside (legitimately ... 50mph road works on M4) then pulled out, hitting her front wing with it's tail lift, taking out all her lights, and writing off her car (SAAB). OK, we can accept that Yorkie was unaware that he had hit anything.

I phoned the supermarket's Transport Manager. "Not a problem, don't worry about" he said ... and then ignored all other communication.

We had legal protection, who got the same "No answer was the stern reply.!"

The Supermarket settled on the "Court-house steps". I doubt that it would have got that far, if we had been acting for ourselves. Our insurers were quite happy to "write off" our car, and profit from selling the wreck, and boosting our premiums.

602

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Wednesday 12th February
quotequote all
w3526602 said:
Hi,

MY interpretation of one particular aspect of the rules. ...

... if the vehicle you are driving/towing exceeds the weight limit of your driving licence, then you are driving without a licence ... which voids your insurance. Discuss!
correct



w3526602

20 posts

114 months

Wednesday 12th February
quotequote all
an old indespension trailer, that has long since lost it's plate,

Hi,

The basic requirement is that the MGW of the trailer MUST be stamped (or painted) ON or NEAR the drawbar. If you are posh, search Ebay for trailer plates (like VIN plates) ... and while you are there, search for number stamps.

As a very rough guide, count the number of bolts holding each suspension unit to the chassis, and note if they a 5/16" or 3/8"diameter (you did say it was an OLD trailer), then ask an expert what that indicates (I can't remember) but a INDESPENSION catalogue might help you work it out. I think 6 bolts per unit, 3/8" dia suggests 750kg MGW ... but don't trust my memory.

It is just possible that the MGW is stamped on the units.

I think it was recently stated on this forum, that the MGW per TYRE (writ on the sidewalls) must NOT be exceeded. But if you have Mini hubs (4 inch or 101mm PCD) a vast range of alternative wheel will fit, ranging from Morris 1000 to Vauxhall Viva, plus dedicated trailer wheels. If you want to be really posh, you could buy a pair of splined adaptors, and fit wire wheels.

Check caravan or pony orientated magazines, looking for adverts that offer trailer parts catalogues FOR FREE. They often contain legal advice about towing. The INDESPENSION catalogue is probably the best, but comes at a price (I wonder if they ever appear on Ebay?) I buy a new edition every ten years or so.

602

w3526602

20 posts

114 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
Hi,

The information from "official" sources is not always helpful ... for instance, DVLA refer to kerb-weight, There ain't no such animal. However, there is unladen weight, maximum gross weight, and maximum authorised mass. I think the latter refers to what I would call TRAIN weight.

I'm happy to be corrected.

If your licence does NOT cover you to drive what you are driving, then you are driving without a licence ... so your insurance is void, even for Third Party claims.

A trailer weighing up to 750kgs LADEN, does not require brakes ... provided the weight of the trailer does not exceed 50% of the unladen weight of the tow-car. Ahem ... I check--weighed my 1957 SWB Land Rover ... oops! .... 1400kgs. That same Land Rover towed my 9 metre boat, say 2500kgs, on the M4, at 50mph. It sort of concentrates the mind.

EVERY trailer must have it's Maximum Gross Weight shown on or near the drawbar ... stamped in the drawbar (nunbert
stamps are avilable from Ebay ) ... or on a plate attached to the draw-bar. A bit of aluminium will do, but a couple of quid will buy you a posh plate from Ebay (search for VIN PLATE, etc). or you can paint it on the drawbar or front panel, in one inch high figures.

Monsieur Flick is know for checking the age of tyres. You will get a severe finger wagging in France if your tyres are more than 5 years old. but I think its 7 years in UK. The date of manufacture is embossed on the sidewall.

You will also need to catty a spare set of bulbs, for the trailer, in France.

602

w3526602

20 posts

114 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
Hi,

The information from "official" sources is not always helpful ... for instance, DVLA refer to kerb-weight, There ain't no such animal. However, there is unladen weight, maximum gross weight, and maximum authorised mass. I think the latter refers to what I would call TRAIN weight.

I'm happy to be corrected.

If your licence does NOT cover you to drive what you are driving, then you are driving without a licence ... so your insurance is void, even for Third Party claims.

A trailer weighing up to 750kgs LADEN, does not require brakes ... provided the weight of the trailer does not exceed 50% of the unladen weight of the tow-car. Ahem ... I check--weighed my 1957 SWB Land Rover ... oops! .... 1400kgs. That same Land Rover towed my 9 metre boat, say 2500kgs, on the M4, at 50mph. It sort of concentrates the mind.

EVERY trailer must have it's Maximum Gross Weight shown on or near the drawbar ... stamped in the drawbar (nunbert
stamps are avilable from Ebay ) ... or on a plate attached to the draw-bar. A bit of aluminium will do, but a couple of quid will buy you a posh plate from Ebay (search for VIN PLATE, etc). or you can paint it on the drawbar or front panel, in one inch high figures.

Monsieur Flick is know for checking the age of tyres. You will get a severe finger wagging in France if your tyres are more than 5 years old. but I think its 7 years in UK. The date of manufacture is embossed on the sidewall.

You will also need to catty a spare set of bulbs, for the trailer, in France.

602

DocSteve

651 posts

177 months

Thursday 20th February
quotequote all
Hi,

I have tried to find an answer to this here and on the gov.uk website and I think I'm correct that this is not allowed...... but someone has told me that a police officer stated that if you are towing a trailer of <750kg with a suitable vehicle (and the whole lot doesn't exceed 3500kg) then if the trailer is completely unladen then it is the weight of the trailer not the MAM posted on the trailer's chassis that counts, therefore allowing you to tow it with a B licence only assuming you do not load it with anything.

What do the experts here say to this?

Thanks
Steve

R0G

Original Poster:

4,795 posts

110 months

Friday 21st February
quotequote all
DocSteve said:
Hi,

I have tried to find an answer to this here and on the gov.uk website and I think I'm correct that this is not allowed...... but someone has told me that a police officer stated that if you are towing a trailer of <750kg with a suitable vehicle (and the whole lot doesn't exceed 3500kg) then if the trailer is completely unladen then it is the weight of the trailer not the MAM posted on the trailer's chassis that counts, therefore allowing you to tow it with a B licence only assuming you do not load it with anything.

What do the experts here say to this?

Thanks
Steve
Total rubbish and illegal to do so = 100% fact