Daytime MOT

Author
Discussion

Oceanrower

Original Poster:

414 posts

78 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Hi all, hope this is a simple question but Google throws up both answers and they can't both be correct!

I've got an old XT500 bike with notoriously poor 6 volt electrics which I plan to put in for a "daytime MOT"

Yes, I know it's not called that but you all know what I mean.

If I later upgrade to 12 volts and put legal lights on it, do I have to re-MOT it or can I use it at night with the lack of lighting advisories?

Thanks in advance.

SantaBarbara

3,244 posts

74 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
No such thing

M_A_S

1,422 posts

151 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Oceanrower said:
Hi all, hope this is a simple question but Google throws up both answers and they can't both be correct!

I've got an old XT500 bike with notoriously poor 6 volt electrics which I plan to put in for a "daytime MOT"

Yes, I know it's not called that but you all know what I mean.

If I later upgrade to 12 volts and put legal lights on it, do I have to re-MOT it or can I use it at night with the lack of lighting advisories?

Thanks in advance.
No, the MOT is only a snapshot of that day.

Weirdhead

87 posts

71 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
SantaBarbara said:
No such thing
Unless the rules have changed very recently you may want to check on that.


Advisory "no lights fitted at time of test" means you have a daytime mot in everything but name.



Edited by Weirdhead on Monday 18th September 17:18

E36GUY

5,894 posts

184 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Weirdhead said:
Unless the rules have changed very recently you may want to check on that.


Advisory "no lights fitted at time of test" means you have a daytime mot in everything but name.
Can you get an MoT without lights?? Surely not?

Oceanrower

Original Poster:

414 posts

78 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
SantaBarbara said:
No such thing
Yes, I know. I said that in the OP. Thanks for your helpful reply.

Oceanrower

Original Poster:

414 posts

78 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
E36GUY said:
Can you get an MoT without lights?? Surely not?
Yes you can, but you have an advisory saying no lights fitted at time of test.

My question is, if I fit lights after the test, do I need to get it re-tested.

gazzarose

992 posts

99 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
When I took my enduro bike for its Mot it needed a new bulb so picked one up from Halfords and when I got to the test station fitted it, but it broke while trying to get it into the socket. The yester didn't have any spares so he just passed me some duct tape to tape over all the lights including my the tail/brake light and passed it. I untaped them so I had a brake light to ride home and he said just cluck.a bulb in and it will be fine. I didn't have indicators either but I assume I would have had to tape them if I did. That was in February and I still have bought a new bulb. Oops

Edited by gazzarose on Monday 18th September 18:31

Oceanrower

Original Poster:

414 posts

78 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
That's surprising. I assumed I needed at least a brake light!

gazzarose

992 posts

99 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
I did wonder when he said to tape the rear light. I thought maybe it was a case of all or nothing. But I didn't try it out on the road, the tape was off before I rolled it out of the test workshop.

Red Devil

12,504 posts

174 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Oceanrower said:
If I later upgrade to 12 volts and put legal lights on it, do I have to re-MOT it or can I use it at night with the lack of lighting advisories?
I have no idea what Google search term you used but the answers are to be found in the DVSA MOT Inspection Manual.
See Section 1 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Note that the 'daylight MOT' exemption requires that the lamps must be permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
So the answers to your questions are respectively, yes do you, and no you can't.

Retroman

894 posts

99 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
If you pass an MOT with non functioning lights and it is noted in the advisory section, then you later fit compliant and legal lights to use it at night then the MOT is certainly still valid and the motorcycle fully legal.

The advisory is there to protect the MOT inspector's back so that if he's asked why there's a car out on the road a day after the MOT with dodgy lights, he can refer to the advisory regarding lights.

Retroman

894 posts

99 months

Monday 18th September 2017
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
I have no idea what Google search term you used but the answers are to be found in the DVSA MOT Inspection Manual.
See Section 1 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Note that the 'daylight MOT' exemption requires that the lamps must be permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
So the answers to your questions are respectively, yes do you, and no you can't.
The key wording is it must be one of the 3 things. Not all 3 and the MOT inspection manual is only applicable during the test. If someone covers the headlights by masking them over for the MOT because there is a problem, it's noted on the advisory, then they later remove the masking and fix the problem the MOT is still valid.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

221 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Red Devil said:
Note that the 'daylight MOT' exemption requires that the lamps must be permanently disconnected,
That wording is used so that disconnecting the light by e.g. turning off the light switch, can not be used for the exemption. It doesn't mean that any change has to be completely irreversible (which would be impossible).

Red Devil

12,504 posts

174 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Retroman said:
If you pass an MOT with non functioning lights and it is noted in the advisory section, then you later fit compliant and legal lights to use it at night then the MOT is certainly still valid and the motorcycle fully legal.
If the Certificate has a VT32 regarding the lights (or lack of them: see below) how can the MOT be valid when the vehicle is driven at night given that the lights which have been fitted subsquently have never been tested? The latter is a material change to the vehicle as originally presented.

Retroman said:
The advisory is there to protect the MOT inspector's back so that if he's asked why there's a car out on the road a day after the MOT with dodgy lights, he can refer to the advisory regarding lights.
What do you mean by 'dodgy'? If there has been no change to the as tested condition* then I don't see the problem.
i.e. those which have neither front nor rear position lamps, or has such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.

Mr2Mike said:
Red Devil said:
Note that the 'daylight MOT' exemption requires that the lamps must be permanently disconnected,
That wording is used so that disconnecting the light by e.g. turning off the light switch, can not be used for the exemption. It doesn't mean that any change has to be completely irreversible (which would be impossible).
I never said it did. I was merely drawing attention to the wording in the manual which prevents the vehicle being used during non daylight hours or in conditions of restricted visibility.

the tribester

1,348 posts

52 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
It sounds mad that you only need a horn and number plate at MOT time, with no lights, especially when no working brake lights can get you an immediate prohibition from a DVSA examiner on the roadside.

But, the MOT is only about the condition at time of test, not some guarantee of it's condition some time later.
So yes you can get a 'daytime MOT', then fix the lights and ride at night.
Afterall alot of bikers fit their 'for MOT numberplate' for the test, then immediately replace it with their tiny plate when they get home.

Register1

902 posts

60 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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SantaBarbara said:
No such thing
I had a day time not on my xt350 a few years ago.



Duncan Lang

55 posts

73 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
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Red Devil said:
I have no idea what Google search term you used but the answers are to be found in the DVSA MOT Inspection Manual.
See Section 1 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

Note that the 'daylight MOT' exemption requires that the lamps must be permanently disconnected, painted over or masked.
So the answers to your questions are respectively, yes do you, and no you can't.
This is your answer. After years of riding supermotos this is the case. However, if weather conditions would normally need lights, you shouldn't ride (until they are reconnected of course)

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

221 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
I never said it did. I was merely drawing attention to the wording in the manual which prevents the vehicle being used during non daylight hours or in conditions of restricted visibility.
Obviously it's illegal to ride in the dark with no lights fitted. Having no lights fitted at the time of a test results in this being noted on the advisory form, but there is nothing stopping lights being fitted after the MOT, a re-test is not required.

This is no different to getting an advisory for tyres near the legal limit; would you get a re-test after fitting new ones?

sospan

1,503 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th September 2017
quotequote all
Turn up with a blown bulb and it is a fail.
If stopped by police while driving with a failed light you are lucky if you are given leeway by showing a spare bulb is ready and a few words of advice. You may be told to get the lights checked at an MOT station and get a check cert to produce at a police station. You may be unlucky and get a ticket.
Brake lights are a high probability for police stops so less leeway.
Indicators? Hmmmmmm.......no joke comments re drivers of certain makes please!
I wonder what the scenario is for a vehicle with no lights fitted being stopped....police awareness of how to deal re visibility at the time.
Brakelights would be needed though irrespective of this?
Also, what about the cancelling of rear foglights and spotlights? These must have self cancellation built in.

Edited by sospan on Tuesday 19th September 09:15