Do Bailiffs have access to registered keeper details?
Discussion
As title. I occasionally park cars on a friend's [rented] land, he's currently experiencing bailiff issues, they visited the property and notified him of the intent to seize goods, including a couple of his vehicles (he's a mechanic/trader) parked at the location. Now I'm worried if I leave my car there that they might get the bit between their teeth and attempt to make off with it. Obviously I am the registered keeper on the system but does this make any difference considering keepership is not proof of ownership? Are they even able to check who is or isn't a registered keeper? Do they check to see who is keeper of a car before they take it? Honestly I don't want the hassle of having to argue with a knuckleheaded bailiff that a car is mine and not his, but at the same time I'm not going to find cheaper, secure parking on private land than the £5 per week I pay him.
vsonix]As title. I occasionally park cars on a friend's [rented said:
land, he's currently experiencing bailiff issues, they visited the property and notified him of the intent to seize goods, including a couple of his vehicles (he's a mechanic/trader) parked at the location. Now I'm worried if I leave my car there that they might get the bit between their teeth and attempt to make off with it. Obviously I am the registered keeper on the system but does this make any difference considering keepership is not proof of ownership? Are they even able to check who is or isn't a registered keeper? Do they check to see who is keeper of a car before they take it? Honestly I don't want the hassle of having to argue with a knuckleheaded bailiff that a car is mine and not his, but at the same time I'm not going to find cheaper, secure parking on private land than the £5 per week I pay him.
https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvlaFrom past experience they don’t care about the registered keeper but, they want proof of ownership. After a weekend away I return home to no car on the drive. When questioning my mum it turns out bailiffs arrived for something she never mentioned to us and took my car ( she wasn’t home) it took me a full 24 hours and a solicitor to get the car back, luckily I had only had the car a few months and had the original invoice still. Never did get any money back from them to repair the alarm that they disabled 😱.
I take a couple of calls each week from various bailiffs/HCEO asking me to confirm ownership of my fleet before they lift it.
They can check for finance roadside, and although in theory they can get keeper details, they can only do paper requests which take a few days..
Although the V5 states this is not proof of ownership and a bill of sale is preferable, most of the guys I speak to are reasonable enough to know that the owner and keeper are usually one and the same. If the vehicle was owned by a finance company, the HPI would show that up, and the vehicle would be untouched.
They can check for finance roadside, and although in theory they can get keeper details, they can only do paper requests which take a few days..
Although the V5 states this is not proof of ownership and a bill of sale is preferable, most of the guys I speak to are reasonable enough to know that the owner and keeper are usually one and the same. If the vehicle was owned by a finance company, the HPI would show that up, and the vehicle would be untouched.
They argue that the V5 is not proof of ownership, just the reg keeper.
They also argue the onus is on the debitor to prove that it isn't their car
They wont take it if finance is on it, as the finance company owns the car
Seen a few taken , only to be returned next week when its proved its not their car
They can threaten to take every car on the drive to get leverage on the person to pay the debt or at least part payment , people soon start panicking if your flatmates car is clamped and they then return from work!
They also argue the onus is on the debitor to prove that it isn't their car
They wont take it if finance is on it, as the finance company owns the car
Seen a few taken , only to be returned next week when its proved its not their car
They can threaten to take every car on the drive to get leverage on the person to pay the debt or at least part payment , people soon start panicking if your flatmates car is clamped and they then return from work!
Steve57 said:
From past experience they don’t care about the registered keeper but, they want proof of ownership. After a weekend away I return home to no car on the drive. When questioning my mum it turns out bailiffs arrived for something she never mentioned to us and took my car ( she wasn’t home) it took me a full 24 hours and a solicitor to get the car back, luckily I had only had the car a few months and had the original invoice still. Never did get any money back from them to repair the alarm that they disabled ??.
Wow, that sucks. I have no proof of ownership with any of my cars, all private sales, cash purchases, no paper trail etc.
So this would imply they took your car without even checking the registered keeper first (assuming it's you not your mum...)
So I guess leaving my cars at my mate's is a bad idea for the time being. Or maybe I should invest in some wheel clamps and clamp them myself so they think someone else has already seized them. Mightn't work but nice idea!
The problem is that the law favours these parasite companies and allows them to make all sorts of assumptions that have to be challenged later.
The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
zarjaz1991 said:
The problem is that the law favours these parasite companies and allows them to make all sorts of assumptions that have to be challenged later.
The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
I don’t agree with the view that they’re parasites. There are a certain type of people (scum I call them) who are quite happy to rip people off knowing what a ball ache it will be for them to try and recover their money. They rely on the Courts being slow and dotting every i and crossing every t. Bailffs are only employed as a last resort once the Courts are fully satisfied that the person owes the money.The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
Countdown said:
zarjaz1991 said:
The problem is that the law favours these parasite companies and allows them to make all sorts of assumptions that have to be challenged later.
The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
I don’t agree with the view that they’re parasites. There are a certain type of people (scum I call them) who are quite happy to rip people off knowing what a ball ache it will be for them to try and recover their money. They rely on the Courts being slow and dotting every i and crossing every t. Bailffs are only employed as a last resort once the Courts are fully satisfied that the person owes the money.The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
2Btoo said:
I'm with Countdown on this. There needs to be a mechanism that allows things to be taken from people who run up debts and have no intention or means of paying. It's tough, but bailiffs exist for a (sad) reason.
<nods>People who don't pay should not be able to get away with it. If they could, then the rate of urine extraction would rocket.
zarjaz1991 said:
The problem is that the law favours these parasite companies and allows them to make all sorts of assumptions that have to be challenged later.
The situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
If you had been on the receiving end of some of these scroats dealings you would know why bailiffs exist, while there are some genuine sad hard luck stories, a vast majority are just companies, toerags etc who make a living out of ripping people off, not payng bills, fines, ccj's etcThe situation SHOULD be that the onus is on the bailiffs to be satisfied the vehicle belongs to their debtor, and if they get it wrong it would be theft. A few bailiff company directors in the slammer might focus a few minds. Instead however we have them protected by law and they can practically do as they please. Even when they do step outside the law you have no recourse to justice.
and a large percentage is repeat business for the bailiffs. On one of the TV docs a while ago, they had been to the same people operating under different names 3 times in as many years and whilst there is no criminality attached, the perpetrators will just move on and carry on doing the same thing it, easy money.
Whilst there always people who take the piss, many bailiff cases are people who've ended up in the crap through no fault of their own. eg redundancy. These people are given little to no consideration by bailiffs who will use every legal and illegal trick in the book to get what they want. Including taking cars that don't belong to the debtor.
I suppose we could bring back debtors' prisons.
Most people on PH do at least reasonably well financially. Not everyone does, and sometimes people end up in a hole. Threatening them, bullying them and breaking into their houses while they're out, is not the solution.
I suppose we could bring back debtors' prisons.
Most people on PH do at least reasonably well financially. Not everyone does, and sometimes people end up in a hole. Threatening them, bullying them and breaking into their houses while they're out, is not the solution.
vsonix said:
Wow, that sucks.
I have no proof of ownership with any of my cars, all private sales, cash purchases, no paper trail etc.
So this would imply they took your car without even checking the registered keeper first (assuming it's you not your mum...)
So I guess leaving my cars at my mate's is a bad idea for the time being. Or maybe I should invest in some wheel clamps and clamp them myself so they think someone else has already seized them. Mightn't work but nice idea!
In a private sale it's perfectly acceptable for a receipt to be hand written. I'm sure you could find it somewhere....I have no proof of ownership with any of my cars, all private sales, cash purchases, no paper trail etc.
So this would imply they took your car without even checking the registered keeper first (assuming it's you not your mum...)
So I guess leaving my cars at my mate's is a bad idea for the time being. Or maybe I should invest in some wheel clamps and clamp them myself so they think someone else has already seized them. Mightn't work but nice idea!
zarjaz1991 said:
Most people on PH do at least reasonably well financially. Not everyone does, and sometimes people end up in a hole. Threatening them, bullying them and breaking into their houses while they're out, is not the solution.
If people get into a hole for reasons outside their control, most reputable creditors will be reasonable if they can show they're trying.If people are in that hole, whatever the reason, and possess valuable stuff that could be sold to repay their debts, then doesn't it make sense if they do that BEFORE getting a court judgment enforced against them...?
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