Police cutbacks what a joke
Discussion
PAULJ5555 said:
Meanwhile another child is stabbed to death in London
Cannot win really though, there is limited police resource thanks to the Tories relentless reduction of numbers. If the police throw numbers at reducing street crime, then other crimes increase you will see people complaining about those instead - by no means saying knife crime isn't important but you cannot just stop policing the roads/vehicles. The police percentage of effort going into stopping vans yesterday was probably a fraction of percent of the available police workforce and if redeployed on the street would not have the needed impact.Dibble said:
Were I a betting man, I’d suggest a multi agency check site, with the Police doing the “stopping”, other agencies checking over the vehicles and whoever had primacy for any offences identified issuing any tickets/submitting any reports.
Regardless of who exactly issued the fine, it's still a petty jobsworth pick-the-low-hanging-fruit exercise that really benefits nobody. greater benefit could have been achieved by having a box of stickers to dish out, but this doesn't generate revenue to keep the jobsworths in employment.As previously said, why do hard work when one can simply nit-pick?
Rovinghawk said:
Regardless of who exactly issued the fine, it's still a petty jobsworth pick-the-low-hanging-fruit exercise that really benefits nobody. greater benefit could have been achieved by having a box of stickers to dish out, but this doesn't generate revenue to keep the jobsworths in employment.
As previously said, why do hard work when one can simply nit-pick?
Where does the money go? (serious question as I dont know) - if it went to funding the police then can understand why they would do it!As previously said, why do hard work when one can simply nit-pick?
coldel said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Meanwhile another child is stabbed to death in London
Cannot win really though, there is limited police resource thanks to the Tories relentless reduction of numbers. If the police throw numbers at reducing street crime, then other crimes increase you will see people complaining about those instead - by no means saying knife crime isn't important but you cannot just stop policing the roads/vehicles. The police percentage of effort going into stopping vans yesterday was probably a fraction of percent of the available police workforce and if redeployed on the street would not have the needed impact.There are loads of serious highway unsolved crimes out there and loads happening today, way more serious than checking stickers. I wonder how many people not in works vans went past this stop point that had bald tyres, had booze or drugs in them.
PAULJ5555 said:
Maybe the knife crime was a bad choice, happy for them to police the roads but all these officers out checking no smoking stickers, come on now, this is not a crime that anyone would want enforced if it took away from more serious highway crimes and it did just that.
There are loads of serious highway unsolved crimes out there and loads happening today, way more serious than checking stickers. I wonder how many people not in works vans went past this stop point that had bald tyres, had booze or drugs in them.
They arent just checking for no smoking stickers though. They are likely checking out the vehicle which could have dozens of non-compliancy's including some very serious ones like you mention (overloading, dangerous vehicles, hazerdous substances whatever really) not just pulling vans over and checking for stickers. There are also other squads of police doing the same to cars - you see it all the time at Waterloo bridge on the way home being pulled on one side and getting a going over, cannot see why police shouldnt do the same for works vans.There are loads of serious highway unsolved crimes out there and loads happening today, way more serious than checking stickers. I wonder how many people not in works vans went past this stop point that had bald tyres, had booze or drugs in them.
That said I agree its barmy to be fined £200 for it being missing a sticker - it would be better if the police carried them and the offender had to buy one for say £20 on the spot - its the required slap on the wrist and the van is compliant.
W124Bob said:
In a sensible world the answer would hace been to give out stickers to those drivers in non compliant vans, cost of a box of stickers being met by the fine(s) for those drivers/vans breaking the the law in other more seriuos ways, no MOT , proper insurance etc. In the current climate I'd be surprised if we didn't have some jobsworth checking those vans with stickers for ISO sign compliance!
They stop a van that's part of a large fleet.What difference does one sticker in the fleet make, if the fleet manager doesn't care? Zero. What difference does a bunch of FPNs being handed to the fleet manager make? Plenty.
creampuff said:
Quite likely. Maybe VOSA issued the fine. I'd still say it is a waste of 3 minutes of time for VOSA, the police or whoever it was than handed it out. 3 minutes which could have been spent on something else VOSA is responsible for, which is more important than a sticker.
Assuming it is an ANPR-static site-type thing, then it'd depend on the flow. If the ANPR isn't pinging much up then this 3 minutes wouldn't be going towards anything else as the people at the check site would be waiting for more vehicles.
coldel said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Meanwhile another child is stabbed to death in London
Cannot win really though, there is limited police resource thanks to the Tories relentless reduction of numbers. If the police throw numbers at reducing street crime, then other crimes increase you will see people complaining about those instead - by no means saying knife crime isn't important but you cannot just stop policing the roads/vehicles. The police percentage of effort going into stopping vans yesterday was probably a fraction of percent of the available police workforce and if redeployed on the street would not have the needed impact.Why do any other activity whilst there are undetected murders?
Dibble said:
Greendubber said:
Can we have a look at the ticket to see who issued it?
I all of my time I've never seen an offence code for smoking in a company vehicle....
Already asked by me (and so far, ignored by the OP).I all of my time I've never seen an offence code for smoking in a company vehicle....
Were I a betting man, I’d suggest a multi agency check site, with the Police doing the “stopping”, other agencies checking over the vehicles and whoever had primacy for any offences identified issuing any tickets/submitting any reports.
Of course, none of that fits with the OP’s “waaah”.
coldel said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Maybe the knife crime was a bad choice, happy for them to police the roads but all these officers out checking no smoking stickers, come on now, this is not a crime that anyone would want enforced if it took away from more serious highway crimes and it did just that.
There are loads of serious highway unsolved crimes out there and loads happening today, way more serious than checking stickers. I wonder how many people not in works vans went past this stop point that had bald tyres, had booze or drugs in them.
They arent just checking for no smoking stickers though. They are likely checking out the vehicle which could have dozens of non-compliancy's including some very serious ones like you mention (overloading, dangerous vehicles, hazerdous substances whatever really) not just pulling vans over and checking for stickers. There are also other squads of police doing the same to cars - you see it all the time at Waterloo bridge on the way home being pulled on one side and getting a going over, cannot see why police shouldnt do the same for works vans.There are loads of serious highway unsolved crimes out there and loads happening today, way more serious than checking stickers. I wonder how many people not in works vans went past this stop point that had bald tyres, had booze or drugs in them.
That said I agree its barmy to be fined £200 for it being missing a sticker - it would be better if the police carried them and the offender had to buy one for say £20 on the spot - its the required slap on the wrist and the van is compliant.
Maybe there is a box somewhere that needs ticking to say they have done checks for these stickers. The police are not very good at PR and their own worst enemy sometimes.
colin_p said:
Derek Smith said:
There are laws against taking cocaine. There's laws against killing endangered species. The difference is that smoking is, essentially, legal, this despite it being one of the major killers and incapacitors of people. You can smoke in certain areas. So the signs delineate.
Most people are confused by laws. If you asked a number of people what the law states you would get a variation of answers. No smoking signs make it clear where it is not permissible.
I think that's common sense.
I think people are less confused than you imagine.Most people are confused by laws. If you asked a number of people what the law states you would get a variation of answers. No smoking signs make it clear where it is not permissible.
I think that's common sense.
But they are increasingly frustrated by the selective enforcement. And of course enforcement that most easily swells the coffers.
Next Tuesday they will be picking on old biddies under the Metropolitan Police Act 1839, for erecting washing lines across thoroughfares in the city and then on Thursday fishmongers will be the target for suspicious handling of salmon as per Salmon Act of 1986.
Those boxes are not going to tick themselves.
There's a fanatical grouping of angry old men who frequent sites like this, who perhaps read certain angry newspapers, that seem to think the police should only focus on crimes committed by people unlike themselves.
We still don’t know who issued the ticket for the lack of sticker though, despite a couple of direct requests to the OP to clarify.
To silence the doubters, all he has to do is pop up a redacted ticket, but again, still no sign.
It’s been suggested that this is very unlikely to have been JUST the police JUST looking for no smoking stickers (or the lack thereof). Maybe, just maybe, if a ticket was given for no sticker, it wasn’t the police and whoever dished it out wasn’t doing anything else at the time. Maybe the OP (or his employer/employees) has been previously warned about lack of stickers...
I’m not suggesting the OP’s account isn’t 100% accurate and he wasn’t stopped by the police and given a ticket by the police, without any other agencies involved, in an operation solely targeting “no smoking” stickers. I’m just trying to point out that to me, it seems unlikely. Not impossible, just improbable.
To silence the doubters, all he has to do is pop up a redacted ticket, but again, still no sign.
It’s been suggested that this is very unlikely to have been JUST the police JUST looking for no smoking stickers (or the lack thereof). Maybe, just maybe, if a ticket was given for no sticker, it wasn’t the police and whoever dished it out wasn’t doing anything else at the time. Maybe the OP (or his employer/employees) has been previously warned about lack of stickers...
I’m not suggesting the OP’s account isn’t 100% accurate and he wasn’t stopped by the police and given a ticket by the police, without any other agencies involved, in an operation solely targeting “no smoking” stickers. I’m just trying to point out that to me, it seems unlikely. Not impossible, just improbable.
La Liga said:
he implication / idea that because there are more serious issues at hand lesser issues should, presumably, be ignored is simplistic nonsense.
Why do any other activity whilst there are undetected murders?
That is a strawman argument. A missing 'no smoking' stricker, is by any measure, trivial. Because someone thinks handing out a fine for a missing sticker is a waste of time, does not mean they would think only the most serious crimes should be worthy of attention. Can you think of any less serious administrative infraction which is enforced by the state?Why do any other activity whilst there are undetected murders?
creampuff said:
La Liga said:
The implication / idea that because there are more serious issues at hand lesser issues should, presumably, be ignored is simplistic nonsense.
Why do any other activity whilst there are undetected murders?
That is a strawman argument. A missing 'no smoking' stricker, is by any measure, trivial. Because someone thinks handing out a fine for a missing sticker is a waste of time, does not mean they would think only the most serious crimes should be worthy of attention. Can you think of any less serious administrative infraction which is enforced by the state?Why do any other activity whilst there are undetected murders?
The specific example of non-smoking probably isn't relevant. I'd be surprised if the police even issued it.
InitialDave said:
Should the police enforce the law? Yes.
Is this law total b
ks? Are the no smoking stickers are a stupid requirement, and is checking for them a waste of everyone's time, even as a part of a stop for something else?
Yes.
Jeez, how many times? Did the police actually issue the ticket, or was it another agency?Is this law total b
ks? Are the no smoking stickers are a stupid requirement, and is checking for them a waste of everyone's time, even as a part of a stop for something else? Yes.
If the former, had the company had previous warnings? Are/we’re there other issues?
In the grand scheme of things, the absence of a sticker isn’t a massive issue, that I agree with. I’ve asked for clarity from the OP, as have others. That clarity hasn’t been forthcoming. For that reason, in addition to my own knowledge, I’d be surprised if the police had just been stopping vans for no smoking stickers and the police had issued the ticket.
I’m happy to be proved wrong, but I admit, I’ll be surprised if I am.
Dibble said:
Jeez, how many times? Did the police actually issue the ticket, or was it another agency?
Doesn't change my stance.I have no problem with the police doing it if it was them, it's a law and they don't get to choose what they're told to go out and do.
At the same time, I think it's a stupid law that should not exist, and regard its enforcement by anyone, even as part of a wider operation or other checks, as a waste of time.
InitialDave said:
Is this law total bks? Are the no smoking stickers are a stupid requirement, and is checking for them a waste of everyone's time, even as a part of a stop for something else?
Yes.
Is the law requiring stickers that you think is stupid or the law forbidding smoking in company vehicles? ks? Are the no smoking stickers are a stupid requirement, and is checking for them a waste of everyone's time, even as a part of a stop for something else? Yes.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff