Wales again 1.5metres filming

[Ares]

echazfraz said:

Pica-Pica said:

Be assured I always pass a cyclist using the other carriageway, where possible, I like to do my bit to retain the gap.

I may be due a parrot but, if I'm not, then hats off to you sir.

It must be a bugger getting over the central divider sometimes though.

I suspect the 'where possible' implies the divider would be a dotted white line. Pretty easy to get over?

[Ares]

Bennet said:

If we're going to talk about 1.5 metres, we really need to specify whether we are talking about NSL A and B roads, or the urban crawl at rush hour. The two are totally different conversations.

I've often cycled my suburban commute and I certainly don't expect a full 1.5 metres clearance on every road. I think I'd also consider it mostly my fault if I suddenly fell off and went under the wheels of an overtaking car... The fact that I'm confident in my ability not to suddenly fall is part of the basis on which I choose to take the risk of cycling to work...

If I thought every car would feel obliged to give a true 1.5 metres of clearance in every situation, or to have to put all four wheels on the other side of the road, I probably wouldn't ever cycle because I just wouldn't consider it reasonable for me to hold up the traffic like that.

This is that common sense thing again.

In crawling traffic, there is likely to be minimal speed difference, and thus the need to overtake would be, well, minimal. - furthermore, that common sense thing suggests that at c20mph, you don't need the full 1.5m.

At 70mph, with a 45-50mph speed difference, if certainly is needed.

[Toltec]

Ares said:

This is that common sense thing again.

In crawling traffic, there is likely to be minimal speed difference, and thus the need to overtake would be, well, minimal. - furthermore, that common sense thing suggests that at c20mph, you don't need the full 1.5m.

At 70mph, with a 45-50mph speed difference, if certainly is needed.

If you cannot touch the side of the passing vehicle with an outstretched arm then that is a reasonable low speed differential distance, at high speeds allow for a baseball bat.

[JuniorD]

james7 said:

As pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclists how about them? Is there a minimum for driving past one when they are on the pavement? If not why not? Surely the most vulnerable should be catered for first and rules introduced for their safety.

Don't worry, the Conservatives have got your back



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cyc...

[Ares]

The cyclists in that picture look extremely dangerous..!

And anyway, hasn't that tweet been shown to be fake?

[BertBert]

I know it's a bit late in the thread, but where is this figure of 1.5m enshrined?
Bert

[Toltec]

Ares said:

The cyclists in that picture look extremely dangerous..!

And anyway, hasn't that tweet been shown to be fake?

Looks like they all have lights on so pretty sure that is a fake picture, set up at least.

[JuniorD]

Tweet was not fake. Was from official conservative twitter.

[Mave]

james7 said:

As pedestrians are more vulnerable than cyclists how about them? Is there a minimum for driving past one when they are on the pavement? If not why not? Surely the most vulnerable should be catered for first and rules introduced for their safety.

If they are on a pavement, then surely this is the equivalent of being in a separate lane? The pedestrian gets to manoeuvre freely across the pavement without worrying that someone is driving on the pavement, the motorist gets to use the width of the road.

This 1.5m rule is really about overtaking within the cyclist's lane where the fixed and obvious separation of users' space is missing.

[anonymous-user]

Why are people struggling with this?

[Ares]

yonex said:

Why are people struggling with this?

Hairy knuckles gripping the steering wheel affects IQ levels.

[Toltec]

Ares said:

yonex said:

Why are people struggling with this?

Hairy knuckles gripping the steering wheel affects IQ levels.

The usual minority behaviour being used to tar the nominated group.

Perhaps we should follow the media and distinguish things by calling them 'so called drivers' and 'so called cyclists' to make it clear we are talking about minority groups that contain people who do not share well with other road users.

[Ares]

Toltec said:

Ares said:

yonex said:

Why are people struggling with this?

Hairy knuckles gripping the steering wheel affects IQ levels.

The usual minority behaviour being used to tar the nominated group.

Perhaps we should follow the media and distinguish things by calling them 'so called drivers' and 'so called cyclists' to make it clear we are talking about minority groups that contain people who do not share well with other road users.

I've always said its minority groups. But read on here, most cyclist see ahole drivers has being a tiny minority. The other way around isn't always true, plenty of comments about 'all cyclist are...' and even more descriptive terms classing all cyclists as 'lycra warriors' or now 'lycra terrorists'

[Graveworm]

I am content to wait for enough of a gap to safely pass a cyclist. It's the considerate thing to do and 99% of the time it's no hassle. However in my experience as a cyclist and car driver few cyclists feel they have any requirement to be considerate in return, they become quiet vitriolic whenever it's discussed. Failing to single up or even (Heaven forbid) to stop altogether so that a queue of traffic can pass. I read on these forums a cyclist (I am paraphrasing) who said he doesn't have to use cycle lanes, because they inconvenience him by slowing him down. His response is to inconvenience numerous road users in cars by using the road instead.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 14th August 14:28

[Toltec]

Ares said:

I've always said its minority groups. But read on here, most cyclist see ahole drivers has being a tiny minority. The other way around isn't always true, plenty of comments about 'all cyclist are...' and even more descriptive terms classing all cyclists as 'lycra warriors' or now 'lycra terrorists'

It isn't that surprising on a predominantly motoring forum to find people that ride cycles understand only some so called drivers are bad given they are probably also drivers. The minority of so called drivers are quite vocal and drivers that are not bothered by people cycling don't say anything.

Yes, you are clearly one of the more sensible ones.

[Ares]

Graveworm said:

I am content to wait for enough of a gap to safely pass a cyclist. It's the considerate thing to do and 99% of the time it's no hassle. However in my experience as a cyclist and car driver few cyclists feel they have any requirement to be considerate in return, they become quiet vitriolic whenever it's discussed. Failing to single up or even (Heaven forbid) to stop altogether so that a queue of traffic can pass. I read on these forums a cyclist (I am paraphrasing) who said he doesn't have to use cycle lanes, because they inconvenience him by slowing him down. His response is to inconvenience numerous road users in cars by using the road instead.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 14th August 14:28

Very true. Too many people are obsessed with their 'right' to be on the road, often losing sight of common sense in the meantime.

[Ares]

Toltec said:

Ares said:

I've always said its minority groups. But read on here, most cyclist see ahole drivers has being a tiny minority. The other way around isn't always true, plenty of comments about 'all cyclist are...' and even more descriptive terms classing all cyclists as 'lycra warriors' or now 'lycra terrorists'

It isn't that surprising on a predominantly motoring forum to find people that ride cycles understand only some so called drivers are bad given they are probably also drivers. The minority of so called drivers are quite vocal and drivers that are not bothered by people cycling don't say anything.

Yes, you are clearly one of the more sensible ones.

Very true - although it does appear to be like it in life. Take any tweet/comment/newspapers article about cycling on the road, you will get truly horrendous comments that make Boris Johnson's letterbox comment look like humour.

And thanks

[BMWBen]

Ares said:

Graveworm said:

I am content to wait for enough of a gap to safely pass a cyclist. It's the considerate thing to do and 99% of the time it's no hassle. However in my experience as a cyclist and car driver few cyclists feel they have any requirement to be considerate in return, they become quiet vitriolic whenever it's discussed. Failing to single up or even (Heaven forbid) to stop altogether so that a queue of traffic can pass. I read on these forums a cyclist (I am paraphrasing) who said he doesn't have to use cycle lanes, because they inconvenience him by slowing him down. His response is to inconvenience numerous road users in cars by using the road instead.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 14th August 14:28

Very true. Too many people are obsessed with their 'right' to be on the road, often losing sight of common sense in the meantime.

Generally sensible comments, but there's an unfortunate contradiction there at the end.

Anybody who uses the road in any vehicle/animal/transportation device including shoes ultimately inconveniences other users of the road. Every time you drive your car you (and I) are inconveniencing others.

So it ultimately comes down to: do I accept that inconvenience or not. You generally wouldn't even consider that the car in front of you is doing such a thing, or that you were doing it yourself because of your biases about what you think the roads are for, but the fact is, other cars and your car all contribute to a slower journey for everyone. So to complain about a bike not using a cycle lane whilst you are using the road yourself (for whatever purpose) is probably rather hypocritical if you're not also complaining about the other cars and yourself.

[silentbrown]

BMWBen said:

So it ultimately comes down to: do I accept that inconvenience or not. You generally wouldn't even consider that the car in front of you is doing such a thing, or that you were doing it yourself because of your biases about what you think the roads are for, but the fact is, other cars and your car all contribute to a slower journey for everyone. So to complain about a bike not using a cycle lane, whilst you are using the road yourself (for whatever purpose) is probably rather hypocritical if you're not also complaining about the other cars and yourself.

Everybody inconveniences everybody else, but you can do it in either a considerate way or an inconsiderate one. Not hogging the middle lane. Pulling over to let faster traffic past if you're driving something slow or difficult to overtake. Giving room to bikers to filter safely. I'd put "using the cycle lane when appropriate" in the same category.

I have a bee in my bonnet about competitive cycling on open roads, because this seems incompatible with giving "reasonable consideration" to other road users.

[Toltec]

BMWBen said:

So to complain about a bike not using a cycle lane whilst you are using the road yourself (for whatever purpose) is probably rather hypocritical if you're not also complaining about the other cars and yourself.

I do that a lot, just ask my wife...

By and large more cars, vans and lorries get in my way than cyclists. Psychologically being slowed down by 10mph for five minutes probably does not feel as bad as 30mph for one minute. It doesn't help if you can see empty road in front that you could use if only you could get past this damn cyclist.

Sometimes you need to take a step back and think about it.