Driver Awareness Course - bizarre advice?
Discussion
meatballs said:
RE ABS - surely you will get the most braking if you are right on the limit before the tyres slip. If you have gone over the limit ABS kicks in, and you will get slightly less braking as a result. I'd be genuinely interested to know what the explanation is from the earlier test driver poster why this isn't true? Maybe because the ABS can control individual wheels do you brake harder on those and let ABS deal with the one that is braking loose?
Modern ABS systems operate at such a high valve frequency and wheel speed sampling rate that they can maintain that "ideal" braking point of "just before lockup" consistently across all wheels speeds, weight transfers and road conditions on all four wheels. To match them you'd need four feet, four brake pedals and humming bird rapid legs. loskie said:
Teachers talk b
ks it's a lifelong fact.
I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. dhead.
Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
HA! small world and very bad. I remember Hanscome, he did talk bks it's a lifelong fact.I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. d
head.Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
ks much of the time, had to tell us he was 90kg at least a few times each physics lesson.Ari said:
I was on a Driver Awareness Course today, after lethally piloting my car up a clear straight dry empty three lane road (two in my direction) in the middle of nowhere at a breakneck 60mph (saw the camera van but thought it was a 60, it was 50mph, so my fault).
The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
He sounds like a tool.The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
He does have a point about the sport mode though in my experience. Both my Audis (RS5 and RS4) and my current mustang if put into sport mode will hold a lower gear than they would otherwise so that response is instant.
There’s a steep 30mph limit near here that should be a 40mph so they occasionally pop a van on it. Going down I’ll stick my car in sport so it holds its speed better (I think it holds in 3rd vs a normal 5th) and as a bonus it makes a lot of noise to p
s off the knobby residents who moan about speeding where the limit has been set too low.Buster73 said:
I’ve never been on one so wasn’t aware that could be the case , thanks for the information.
You’re basically warned if you challenge the s on anything that you can be marked down as failing in which case you will be paying for the course and the fine and getting the points. So everyone sits there playing lip service and not really paying attention until they’re allowed to fk off home.Allow some proper interaction and it may actually be useful by that is not the aim ...
I’ve had the pleasure of attending one which I think was run by the AA; much the same info given with videos wheeled out with ancient Vauxhall’s etc in. As much as I wanted to argue, in reality I was just wanted to get the hell out if there.
Regarding the 30 in 3rd, my cars have always been happy in 4th for that speed.
Regarding the 30 in 3rd, my cars have always been happy in 4th for that speed.
Alucidnation said:
Croutons said:
Ari said:
...thought it was a 60, it was 50mph...
...Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it
...Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it
Astonishing isn't it.
Surprised by the amount of people claiming their autos change down when engaging Sport Mode. Certainly it makes the gearbox more eager to change down with lighter throttle inputs, and yes it will hang on to gears longer as you accelerate.
But travelling on an even throttle at (say) 30mph in 4th (7 speed box) - it drops to 3rd upon activation of the button?
Surprised and not my experience, but I've not driven every auto so maybe some do.
But travelling on an even throttle at (say) 30mph in 4th (7 speed box) - it drops to 3rd upon activation of the button?
Surprised and not my experience, but I've not driven every auto so maybe some do.
Ari said:
Surprised by the amount of people claiming their autos change down when engaging Sport Mode. Certainly it makes the gearbox more eager to change down with lighter throttle inputs, and yes it will hang on to gears longer as you accelerate.
But travelling on an even throttle at (say) 30mph in 4th (7 speed box) - it drops to 3rd upon activation of the button?
Surprised and not my experience, but I've not driven every auto so maybe some do.
Yep. Absolutely 100% certain of it. Of the top of my head the mustang likes to sit at around 2500-3000 revs with a constant throttle position and will change down if it drops below that. Both of my Audi’s were quite obnoxious to drive in sport as they had very high revving engines and would be quite loud driving through villages when out for a spirited drive.But travelling on an even throttle at (say) 30mph in 4th (7 speed box) - it drops to 3rd upon activation of the button?
Surprised and not my experience, but I've not driven every auto so maybe some do.
djc206 said:
Yep. Absolutely 100% certain of it. Of the top of my head the mustang likes to sit at around 2500-3000 revs with a constant throttle position and will change down if it drops below that. Both of my Audi’s were quite obnoxious to drive in sport as they had very high revving engines and would be quite loud driving through villages when out for a spirited drive.
My Mustang is only doing 1900rpm at 70mph.Ari said:
I was on a Driver Awareness Course today, after lethally piloting my car up a clear straight dry empty three lane road (two in my direction) in the middle of nowhere at a breakneck 60mph (saw the camera van but thought it was a 60, it was 50mph, so my fault).
The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
So reading the replies, there's support for the 3rd in a 30 thing, there's support for sport mode, there's support for no cruise control with big puddles. That leaves us with only the 155 mph limit thing.The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
It looks to me like:
Course instructor one dick point for the 155 thing
OP one dick point for being too stupid to know the speed limit he was in.
Hard to call I reckon
loskie said:
Teachers talk bks it's a lifelong fact.
I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. dhead.
Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
He was right, it wouldn’t have had spark plugs.ks it's a lifelong fact.I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. d
head.Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
Buster73 said:
Ari said:
I didn't bother querying it for that reason and for not wanting to be there any longer than absolutely necessary. Nearly bit through my tongue keeping my mouth shut though!
I have an email address for the course, wondering whether to write in and suggest they check their facts a little more carefully.
I’d damn well email them and mention the threat to mark you as absent , don’t know the legal implications but it could pervert the course of justice at a minor level ?I have an email address for the course, wondering whether to write in and suggest they check their facts a little more carefully.
Ok comment from an old guy here., it certainly was the case with older cars that speed would tend to 'creep' to the point where the engine was running near the peak of the torque curve, so it was easier to hold a speed in lower gear, this is why people would argue cars were more economic at 4/5 of their top speed, i.e near the peak torque, With modern engines and flat torque curves it no where near the issue it was,
As to the ABS comment a car without ABS will stop quicker on gravel and fresh snow as a 'wedge' builds up in front of the wheel, that why in the 80's there were arguments that you needed to be able to switch ABS off. Early ABS also not as efficient as a modern system, so again that why I think older people may believe you can outbreak an ABS system
As to the ABS comment a car without ABS will stop quicker on gravel and fresh snow as a 'wedge' builds up in front of the wheel, that why in the 80's there were arguments that you needed to be able to switch ABS off. Early ABS also not as efficient as a modern system, so again that why I think older people may believe you can outbreak an ABS system
Its interesting to hear all the different views, I was always told to stay in the gear above the limit (so 4th in a 30) as the engine is less eager to accelerate.
I then did a ride drive course and was told to hold it in the power band at all times....guess the police dont pay for their own fuel lol
I then did a ride drive course and was told to hold it in the power band at all times....guess the police dont pay for their own fuel lol
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