Old people with speed guns
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
rscott said:
Or that there simply aren't enough resources to cover all potential areas to determine actual risk. the CSW in this area provide data to the Safer Roads partnership who then use it to target their limited resources efficiently. They also sometimes send a PCSO out with Trucam to work alongside the CSW team.
There's also the matter that criteria for speed calming measures - be they road furniture or cameras - seem somewhat strange. A recent traffic survey of two roads in our village (using the sensors laid across the road over a 7 day period) showed that only 44% complied with the 40 limit and speeds up to 80mph were recorded.
Yet that's deemed "substantial compliance" and no need for any enforcement activities, let alone cameras.
Yet that suggests they do have enough resources to determine the risk, they have measured the speed, they have looked at the figures, and they have deemed there is no need for any further enforcement. Just because you don't agree with their assessment doesn't make it automatically wrong. There's also the matter that criteria for speed calming measures - be they road furniture or cameras - seem somewhat strange. A recent traffic survey of two roads in our village (using the sensors laid across the road over a 7 day period) showed that only 44% complied with the 40 limit and speeds up to 80mph were recorded.
Yet that's deemed "substantial compliance" and no need for any enforcement activities, let alone cameras.
They see a 40mhp limit roads and they see that a lot of people perfectly safely exceed that speed by a small margin.
Ian Geary said:
..
It would be interesting to see any sensible argument against this arrangement.
..
It plays into the over-simple view that the posted speed limit is a threshold between 'safe' and 'unsafe'. There are other chapters in the Highway Code beyond the section covering speed limits, yet everything else is ignored whilst people froth into hysteria when they think the traffic is travelling too fast.It would be interesting to see any sensible argument against this arrangement.
..
Ditch to 'speed kill' mantra and focus on overall driving standards.
rscott said:
No, it suggests they carried out a 7 day survey (during school holidays, so the traffic flow wasn't typical) and gave a "go away" answer because they haven't got the funding to do anything else about it.
OK, I bow to your factual knowledge of their risk assessment and decision making process 
There used to be a couple of local CSW schemes, but they've fallen into disuse because of a lack of volunteers, despite appeals on local social media.
I used to love the disappointed looks on their little faces when they realised that a Porsche isn't automatically breaking the speed limit.
I used to love the disappointed looks on their little faces when they realised that a Porsche isn't automatically breaking the speed limit.
The Surveyor said:
rscott said:
No, it suggests they carried out a 7 day survey (during school holidays, so the traffic flow wasn't typical) and gave a "go away" answer because they haven't got the funding to do anything else about it.
OK, I bow to your factual knowledge of their risk assessment and decision making process rscott said:
The Surveyor said:
rscott said:
No, it suggests they carried out a 7 day survey (during school holidays, so the traffic flow wasn't typical) and gave a "go away" answer because they haven't got the funding to do anything else about it.
OK, I bow to your factual knowledge of their risk assessment and decision making process IJWS15 said:
The sequence is
- Idiots speed through towns and villages
- Residents complain
- Police ignore them
- Residents complain more
- Residents given speed measuring device and clipboard
- Residents record people speeding
- Idiots get letters and ignore them
- Council lowers the speed limit and adds traffic calming measures
- Average speed cameras appear
I tend to drive with cruise on 33 in 30 limits. One morning I was overtaken one morning by my neighbour's wife who was in a hurry. In the next 10 miles having slowed down for the speed cameras she gained one car's length and had held me up . . . so yes it is the locals that get caught.
The simple way is to remember the old guidelines and not to exceed them.
A little bit of FTFY- Idiots speed through towns and villages
- Residents complain
- Police ignore them
- Residents complain more
- Residents given speed measuring device and clipboard
- Residents record people speeding
- Idiots get letters and ignore them
- Council lowers the speed limit and adds traffic calming measures
- Average speed cameras appear
I tend to drive with cruise on 33 in 30 limits. One morning I was overtaken one morning by my neighbour's wife who was in a hurry. In the next 10 miles having slowed down for the speed cameras she gained one car's length and had held me up . . . so yes it is the locals that get caught.
The simple way is to remember the old guidelines and not to exceed them.
The Surveyor said:
rscott said:
The Surveyor said:
rscott said:
No, it suggests they carried out a 7 day survey (during school holidays, so the traffic flow wasn't typical) and gave a "go away" answer because they haven't got the funding to do anything else about it.
OK, I bow to your factual knowledge of their risk assessment and decision making process Same as they've changed the criteria for pothole repair too, meaning they can just not fix some around here...
Durzel said:
People only have a problem with this when it's not in their village. If it is, or better still outside their house, they'd be singing their praises.
Same people I imagine as the ones I follow now and then who have a cavalier attitude to speed limits, until they reach a certain speed limit sign, where they stand on the brakes down to 29.9 mph. Never a surer sign of someone about to turn off the main road.
rscott said:
No, it suggests they carried out a 7 day survey (during school holidays, so the traffic flow wasn't typical) and gave a "go away" answer because they haven't got the funding to do anything else about it.
ThisWhen the LA finally installed a speed recording box to follow up from the Speedwatch volunteers they installed it on the apex of a bend where, clearly, speeds would be lower. The fact that a few still flew through was lost as the LA ticked their box.
Surveyor, we clearly aren’t going to agree but I take the view that speeding through a built up area or even a village is antisocial and unsafe. The fact that a few antisocial people do it and don’t kill somebody does not make it ok.
The cars that rolled only did so because of the speed the cars hit the verge - if they’d hit the verge at a lower speed I’m confident they would not have rolled.
Edited by Miserablegit on Thursday 8th August 16:37
Miserablegit said:
The cars that rolled only did so because of the speed the cars hit the verge - if they’d hit the verge at a lower speed I’m confident they would not have rolled.
Unless the critical speed for rolling on that particular verge happens to coincide with the speed limit, I don't see the relevance.Dr Jekyll said:
Unless the critical speed for rolling on that particular verge happens to coincide with the speed limit, I don't see the relevance.
Oh I’m not suggesting the speed limit should be reduced further to enable people to safely hit the verge.... What I am saying is that if the cars had not been speeding they would not have washed out at that point and run into the curb/verge at the speed they did resulting in a roll.
Miserablegit said:
In response to the Surveyor
That all seems sensible but your post is not reflective of the reality of the situation however.
My village, for instance, had a spate of cars ending upside down after racing through the village and then somehow mounting the verge. Verges were chewed up on a hill as HGVs came flying down and could not slow down in time to safely pass other HGVs and so crossed the pavement chewing up the verge on the other side of the pavement ( not the road side) They’d have killed anybody on the pavement.
Local authority not interested at all. Unless someone is killed on a road they tend to ignore it.
It does surprise me that in this day and age one can be aware of the risks and turn a blind eye until there is a fatality.
So the local authority’s approach is there isn’t a problem as no one is dead yet but if you want to take it further you HAVE to set up a community speed watch before we take any notice. The ridiculous thing is that part of the speedwatch guidance used to require warning signs being placed on all the entrances to the roads when speedwatch was on - hence very few people getting “caught”.
I have no problem with speedwatch groups as they are doing their best to tackle a problem that local authorities ignore. The speed watch results are also used in determining where to place camera vans.
Couple of nice road safety bingo hits there. So if there has never been a fatal, what to you would be a reasonable time to wait? Say there isn't a fatal in 12 month, 24, 36 etc. Do you not think it's better to work on actual opposed to potentially? That all seems sensible but your post is not reflective of the reality of the situation however.
My village, for instance, had a spate of cars ending upside down after racing through the village and then somehow mounting the verge. Verges were chewed up on a hill as HGVs came flying down and could not slow down in time to safely pass other HGVs and so crossed the pavement chewing up the verge on the other side of the pavement ( not the road side) They’d have killed anybody on the pavement.
Local authority not interested at all. Unless someone is killed on a road they tend to ignore it.
It does surprise me that in this day and age one can be aware of the risks and turn a blind eye until there is a fatality.
So the local authority’s approach is there isn’t a problem as no one is dead yet but if you want to take it further you HAVE to set up a community speed watch before we take any notice. The ridiculous thing is that part of the speedwatch guidance used to require warning signs being placed on all the entrances to the roads when speedwatch was on - hence very few people getting “caught”.
I have no problem with speedwatch groups as they are doing their best to tackle a problem that local authorities ignore. The speed watch results are also used in determining where to place camera vans.
What happens in the next village with the same issues and concerned residents and there is only funding for one who gets it? Those who shout the loudest?
You do realise there are millions (and I'm not exaggerating) of potential road safety issues across the country, how would you decide how to benchmark them and which ones need tackling?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ1a0ymGCKA
You need to watch until part 2. This is very much my view about how flawed the local authority assessments are.
I’ll leave the discussion now but my main purpose of responding earlier is that these people with speed guns are forced to do this as the local authority will not / can not afford to spend resources on a potential issue. They need residents to jump through more hoops before they will get involved.
They will then undertake their own survey installing a speed recording device in the area and at the time least likely to record the highest speeds and then can wash their hands of the matter once their own guidelines are not met.
Problem solved apparently.
You need to watch until part 2. This is very much my view about how flawed the local authority assessments are.
I’ll leave the discussion now but my main purpose of responding earlier is that these people with speed guns are forced to do this as the local authority will not / can not afford to spend resources on a potential issue. They need residents to jump through more hoops before they will get involved.
They will then undertake their own survey installing a speed recording device in the area and at the time least likely to record the highest speeds and then can wash their hands of the matter once their own guidelines are not met.
Problem solved apparently.
I live on a busy town road next to a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. It's 30mph. Pillocks regularly do 60+ I've even watched people drive through the red light after I've pressed the button and waited for the lights to change. AMG Mercedes can't stop themselves from accelerating up the slight hill using their fast auto upshifts. Bloody annoying! It's the noise as much as anything although I should be more concerned about someone getting run over. There aren't many accidents. Perhaps because the road is fairly straight and pedestrians see and hear cars approach.
PATTERNPART said:
I live on a busy town road next to a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. It's 30mph. Pillocks regularly do 60+ I've even watched people drive through the red light after I've pressed the button and waited for the lights to change. AMG Mercedes can't stop themselves from accelerating up the slight hill using their fast auto upshifts. Bloody annoying! It's the noise as much as anything although I should be more concerned about someone getting run over. There aren't many accidents. Perhaps because the road is fairly straight and pedestrians see and hear cars approach.
The problem is limits aren't properly enforced, so to deal with the 60mph idiots on your roads the council or responsible body will impose an artificially low limit an unnecessarily large distance from the problem area. Assuming that people will break the limit but if the limit is too low they won't break it by a dangerous amount.This leads to drivers having no respect for absurd limits. A good example near me is a road out in the countryside, a few houses but mainly fields. Nothing to hit and no accidents. Yet the idiot council has reduced a NSL to 30mph, it is absolutely crazy.
I always obey limits and even I think the current limits are too low.
ChevronB19 said:
(Edited quote). Seriously - you may well be right that no one in their right mind speeds through villages, but I can assure you that people not in their right mind do in mine. I’d be ok with a 10-15% margin, but here it’s in excess of 60 in a 30. It is stupid, dangerous, pointless, and I really don’t care if ‘busybodies’ do something about it.
And yes, I’ve exceeded speed limits in the past (and at present), but nothing as stupid as more than 40 in a 30 (and if I was caught I’d have no reason to complain).
Same here because of the good sight lines. It's not a busy road but the speed some come past is outrageous. Speed watch should be applauded.And yes, I’ve exceeded speed limits in the past (and at present), but nothing as stupid as more than 40 in a 30 (and if I was caught I’d have no reason to complain).
E36GUY said:
ChevronB19 said:
(Edited quote). Seriously - you may well be right that no one in their right mind speeds through villages, but I can assure you that people not in their right mind do in mine. I’d be ok with a 10-15% margin, but here it’s in excess of 60 in a 30. It is stupid, dangerous, pointless, and I really don’t care if ‘busybodies’ do something about it.
And yes, I’ve exceeded speed limits in the past (and at present), but nothing as stupid as more than 40 in a 30 (and if I was caught I’d have no reason to complain).
Same here because of the good sight lines. It's not a busy road but the speed some come past is outrageous. Speed watch should be applauded.And yes, I’ve exceeded speed limits in the past (and at present), but nothing as stupid as more than 40 in a 30 (and if I was caught I’d have no reason to complain).
But that's not what these people are doing, they have a distorted simplistic view the 30mph is safe, and 35mph is going to wipe out the whole WI and local primary school. It's that binary hysteria that 'speed kills' which is ignoring every other aspect of wayward and reckless driving. Their approach is completely wrong, they are not the Police and it isn't their role to police the roads yet they will carry with a blue-rinse tinted view that they are doing their bit and everybody will be safe. Some spotty yoof who receives a letter saying Mrs Miggins mum caught them driving at 45 in a 30 will ignore it, some school-run Mum who gets the same letter saying there were seen rushing to drop-off her sprog at the local nursery will think 'how dare they'.. But it will have NO effect.
What they will likely find is that their perception that everybody speeds through wherever are proven wrong by their figures, they will find that their figures aren't enough to demonstrate to the Council that there is a genuine issue, they will then blame the Council for being wrong because hay, they know best....
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff