Cycle question...

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Discussion

Digby

Original Poster:

6,990 posts

192 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
The organisers didn't need any consent from any authorities and the NEG would just inform the Police they would be passing through their area as a matter of courtesy.
I think that has answered that one, then. As I say, it didn't bother me, I was just curious as there wasn't much else to do but think about 'stuff' hehe

Dave Hedgehog

11,363 posts

150 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Macneil said:
When you realise and accept that roads are provided for everyone's use, not just or in the main for motorists, then life gets a lot simpler and cyclists get a lot safer.
or the cyclists could stop being selfish and stop ruining great driving roads


Solocle

1,101 posts

30 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
or the cyclists could stop being selfish and stop ruining great driving roads
If you don't want to be held up by cyclists, go and use a motorway. If you want a hoon without hazards, go to a track day. Otherwise, everyone has a right to use the public highways. "Great driving roads" - so, people out to enjoy the road, are less important than you, out to enjoy the road? confused

Driving within the envelope of safety (being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, waiting for a safe opportunity to overtake, then taking it) can be fun.

NDA

16,278 posts

171 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
I was wondering this very same question yesterday as there was a group of 15 - 20 cyclists, some riding 2-3 abreast holding up a massive queue of traffic. Very unsafe to overtake as there was nowhere to pull into given it was such a large and long group.

I would not enjoy my cycling knowing I was frustrating such a huge queue of people behind me - but I guess some don't care.

Dave Hedgehog

11,363 posts

150 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Solocle said:
so, people out to enjoy the road, are less important than you, out to enjoy the road? confused
yes they are, i am surprised you had to ask



Randy Winkman

7,161 posts

135 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Solocle said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
or the cyclists could stop being selfish and stop ruining great driving roads
If you don't want to be held up by cyclists, go and use a motorway. If you want a hoon without hazards, go to a track day. Otherwise, everyone has a right to use the public highways. "Great driving roads" - so, people out to enjoy the road, are less important than you, out to enjoy the road? confused

Driving within the envelope of safety (being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, waiting for a safe opportunity to overtake, then taking it) can be fun.
I agree. Mr Hedgehog gave himself away a bit with the "great driving roads" comment. That suggests driving for fun; why shouldn't the cyclists have fun?

On the speed point, 20-25mph might be race speed but most casual cyclists average more like 15mph. 5-10mph is bit slow; more like steep hill speed for casual cyclists.

Dave Hedgehog

11,363 posts

150 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
NDA said:
I would not enjoy my cycling knowing I was frustrating such a huge queue of people behind me - but I guess some don't care.
they love it, they have the same mentality as people who put up fake speed cameras, or post online their in car videos because some one stopped 400mm over the white line at traffic lights


Marcellus

6,532 posts

165 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
NDA said:
I was wondering this very same question yesterday as there was a group of 15 - 20 cyclists, some riding 2-3 abreast holding up a massive queue of traffic. Very unsafe to overtake as there was nowhere to pull into given it was such a large and long group.

I would not enjoy my cycling knowing I was frustrating such a huge queue of people behind me - but I guess some don't care.
We can of course go around this loop again;
- 10 riders 2 abreast make the length of about 10m or 2 Ford Focus.
- 10 riders single file make a length of about 20m or 5 Ford Focus.

As an overtaking driver you are supposed to give the riders the width of a car (2.5/2m) which will put you over the centre line facing oncoming traffic.

Would you rather be there to overtake 2 avg car lengths or 5?

Alternatively, you might chose to go for the overtake if they're single file and half way along a car come the other way so you have to pull back in to avoid the car coming the other way, right into some soft cyclist!

So, riders will ride 2 abreast, it'll stop a lot of people going for a dodgy overtake and therefore be safer for the riders.

A point to note; if the car behind these 10 riders is being a bit of a c@@@ then they will stay 2 abreast for their own safety, however, if the car behind sits back and is generally sensible then the riders will either squeeze themselves together be looking ahead for a clearing and wave the car through or go single file and wave the car through knowing they need to be extra careful as the car may need to pull back in.

NDA

16,278 posts

171 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
NDA said:
I was wondering this very same question yesterday as there was a group of 15 - 20 cyclists, some riding 2-3 abreast holding up a massive queue of traffic. Very unsafe to overtake as there was nowhere to pull into given it was such a large and long group.

I would not enjoy my cycling knowing I was frustrating such a huge queue of people behind me - but I guess some don't care.
We can of course go around this loop again;
- 10 riders 2 abreast make the length of about 10m or 2 Ford Focus.
- 10 riders single file make a length of about 20m or 5 Ford Focus.

As an overtaking driver you are supposed to give the riders the width of a car (2.5/2m) which will put you over the centre line facing oncoming traffic.

Would you rather be there to overtake 2 avg car lengths or 5?

Alternatively, you might chose to go for the overtake if they're single file and half way along a car come the other way so you have to pull back in to avoid the car coming the other way, right into some soft cyclist!

So, riders will ride 2 abreast, it'll stop a lot of people going for a dodgy overtake and therefore be safer for the riders.

A point to note; if the car behind these 10 riders is being a bit of a c@@@ then they will stay 2 abreast for their own safety, however, if the car behind sits back and is generally sensible then the riders will either squeeze themselves together be looking ahead for a clearing and wave the car through or go single file and wave the car through knowing they need to be extra careful as the car may need to pull back in.
So 20 cyclists is between 4 and 10 Ford Focuses? That sounds about right - and, of course, extremely difficult to get past which is why there was a massive queue of slow moving traffic behind them.

I must admit to never seeing these large groups waving cars through.

Retroman

892 posts

79 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
NDA said:
I was wondering this very same question yesterday as there was a group of 15 - 20 cyclists, some riding 2-3 abreast holding up a massive queue of traffic. Very unsafe to overtake as there was nowhere to pull into given it was such a large and long group.

I would not enjoy my cycling knowing I was frustrating such a huge queue of people behind me - but I guess some don't care.
If they were single file, then overtaking would be more difficult as the line of cyclists you would need to pass before pulling back in would be 2 or more times the distance.



RogerDodger

1,399 posts

40 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
What a load of bks.

I pass cyclists, at moderate speeds (under 50 ish) as in diagram 1 (usually with my wheels on the cats eyes). (I cant believe you've even made this whole diagram, as an aside)

I am never less than at least 1.5m away. I never feel too close, and the cyclists never bat an eyelid. Lots of road users overtake a solitary cyclist as in diagram 3. and end up coming at me head on, needlessly. You certainly don't need to straddle lanes in the vast majority of cases to give 1.5m. Roads are generally wider than that.

Diagram 2 is a fair compromise, when you can, safely.

Based on my overtaking, I'd drive past the whole line of cyclists in single file, with plenty of room for an oncoming car to pass. This is at moderate speeds.

Rarely are roads exactly 2 cars wide as in your diagrams. More often than not, you can happily fit three cars side by side, with room to spare.

Your final diagram is nonsense as I've never seen a group of hobby cyclists bunched up so their front and back wheels are touching. Far from it.

I overtook two lone lycra lads on an A road a few weeks back. They were cycling to take up the whole lane, side by side. As I overtook (slowly I'll add), I beeped and shouted to get into single file. The looked at each other, through their wrap around cyclogalsses, and laughed. Pretty much sums them up.

Just to add fuel the fire, when they arrive at our local, they keep their helmets, and often their wrap-arounds on at the bar - proper bell ends. No one engages with them.






Edited by RogerDodger on Saturday 24th August 14:39

blueg33

21,866 posts

170 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
We can of course go around this loop again;
- 10 riders 2 abreast make the length of about 10m or 2 Ford Focus.
- 10 riders single file make a length of about 20m or 5 Ford Focus.

As an overtaking driver you are supposed to give the riders the width of a car (2.5/2m) which will put you over the centre line facing oncoming traffic.

Would you rather be there to overtake 2 avg car lengths or 5?

Alternatively, you might chose to go for the overtake if they're single file and half way along a car come the other way so you have to pull back in to avoid the car coming the other way, right into some soft cyclist!

So, riders will ride 2 abreast, it'll stop a lot of people going for a dodgy overtake and therefore be safer for the riders.

A point to note; if the car behind these 10 riders is being a bit of a c@@@ then they will stay 2 abreast for their own safety, however, if the car behind sits back and is generally sensible then the riders will either squeeze themselves together be looking ahead for a clearing and wave the car through or go single file and wave the car through knowing they need to be extra careful as the car may need to pull back in.
I always hold back until it’s clear and safe to pass, but I have yet to come across the mythical cyclists that wave you past.

The ones that bug me are the ones who ride 2 or 3 abreast round the blind bends on the single track lane to our village. I have seen cars stop in time and cyclists plough into the cars.

But generally I take the vies that karma applies. Don’t be a dick whether riding or driving as karma will catch up with you.

meatballs

404 posts

6 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
RogerDodger said:
I overtook two lone lycra lads on an A road a few weeks back. They were cycling to take up the whole lane, side by side. As I overtook (slowly I'll add), I beeped and shouted to get into single file. The looked at each other, through their wrap around cyclogalsses, and laughed. Pretty much sums them up.
Don't blame them you probably came across as a right bellend

Pica-Pica

5,878 posts

30 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
I always hold back until it’s clear and safe to pass, but I have yet to come across the mythical cyclists that wave you past.

The ones that bug me are the ones who ride 2 or 3 abreast round the blind bends on the single track lane to our village. I have seen cars stop in time and cyclists plough into the cars.

But generally I take the vies that karma applies. Don’t be a dick whether riding or driving as karma will catch up with you.
I have yet to come across the mythical cyclists that ride 3 abreast. When I have seen a large group ride, they usually ride in pairs and leave a gap between pairs for cars to drop into.

T-195

1,367 posts

7 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
I agree. Mr Hedgehog gave himself away a bit with the "great driving roads" comment. That suggests driving for fun; why shouldn't the cyclists have fun?
At least cars are easily identifiable with their rather large number plates, and pay a fair amount of tax just to use the roads.

You can't just compare one thing with another.


Marcellus

6,532 posts

165 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
NDA said:
So 20 cyclists is between 4 and 10 Ford Focuses? That sounds about right - and, of course, extremely difficult to get past which is why there was a massive queue of slow moving traffic behind them.
Whether they're single file or 2 abreast, but safer and you're exposed to danger for less if they're 2 abreast.


NDA said:
I must admit to never seeing these large groups waving cars through.
As I suggested, groups of riders have an attitude test for cars behind.................................... guess you're not passing it.

syl

433 posts

21 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
As I suggested, groups of riders have an attitude test for cars behind.................................... guess you're not passing it.
And occasionally someone with attitude gets provoked and just drives on straight through. Unfortunately what goes around comes around. Both sides can de-escalate the situation.

NDA

16,278 posts

171 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
As I suggested, groups of riders have an attitude test for cars behind.................................... guess you're not passing it.
I’m not sure how my ‘attitude’ has failed? Obviously it’s not up to the high standard of a group of 20 cyclists causing massive traffic queues. Or by daring to question whether they consider other road users.

Solocle

1,101 posts

30 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
RogerDodger said:
What a load of bks.

I pass cyclists, at moderate speeds (under 50 ish) as in diagram 1 (usually with my wheels on the cats eyes). (I cant believe you've even made this whole diagram, as an aside)

I am never less than at least 1.5m away. I never feel too close, and the cyclists never bat an eyelid. Lots of road users overtake a solitary cyclist as in diagram 3. and end up coming at me head on, needlessly. You certainly don't need to straddle lanes in the vast majority of cases to give 1.5m. Roads are generally wider than that.

Diagram 2 is a fair compromise, when you can, safely.

Based on my overtaking, I'd drive past the whole line of cyclists in single file, with plenty of room for an oncoming car to pass. This is at moderate speeds.

Rarely are roads exactly 2 cars wide as in your diagrams. More often than not, you can happily fit three cars side by side, with room to spare.

Your final diagram is nonsense as I've never seen a group of hobby cyclists bunched up so their front and back wheels are touching. Far from it.

I overtook two lone lycra lads on an A road a few weeks back. They were cycling to take up the whole lane, side by side. As I overtook (slowly I'll add), I beeped and shouted to get into single file. The looked at each other, through their wrap around cyclogalsses, and laughed. Pretty much sums them up.

Just to add fuel the fire, when they arrive at our local, they keep their helmets, and often their wrap-arounds on at the bar - proper bell ends. No one engages with them.
Plenty of road lanes narrower than 3.5 m. If a cyclist is leaving the recommended 0.75m from the kerb, than add in 1.5 m gap, that's 2.25m between the cyclist and your left mirror. A Focus is 1.8m wide, giving 4.05 m. That's basically 2ft of incursion into the oncoming carriageway, on a 3.5m road. You'd only get away with that if the cyclist was (inadvisably) riding right on the fog line.

Here's some actual widths from Oxford City Centre, regarding an incident where I was run off the road... by an overtaking taxi, when I was 5 mph over the 20 limit.

Aluminati

351 posts

4 months

Saturday 24th August
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
We can of course go around this loop again;
- 10 riders 2 abreast make the length of about 10m or 2 Ford Focus.
- 10 riders single file make a length of about 20m or 5 Ford Focus.

As an overtaking driver you are supposed to give the riders the width of a car (2.5/2m) which will put you over the centre line facing oncoming traffic.

Would you rather be there to overtake 2 avg car lengths or 5?

Alternatively, you might chose to go for the overtake if they're single file and half way along a car come the other way so you have to pull back in to avoid the car coming the other way, right into some soft cyclist!

So, riders will ride 2 abreast, it'll stop a lot of people going for a dodgy overtake and therefore be safer for the riders.

A point to note; if the car behind these 10 riders is being a bit of a c@@@ then they will stay 2 abreast for their own safety, however, if the car behind sits back and is generally sensible then the riders will either squeeze themselves together be looking ahead for a clearing and wave the car through or go single file and wave the car through knowing they need to be extra careful as the car may need to pull back in.
No they won’t, and they don’t . Please stop talking absolute bks. They are a self centered bunch of holier than though bunch of ignoramuses who have no thought for anyone but themselves.