Cycle question...
Discussion
seveb said:
The one sector of cyclists I have very little respect for is the group who turn the roads into their private race track, ignoring traffic rules. They have no respect for others - even pedestrians. These I will overtake as soon as there's no oncoming traffic and I'm not particularly bothered how much space I give them as they're not bothered about that when they overtake me. What goes around and all that - if they want to be treated respectfully then the first step is to start treating others with respect.
So you see their lack of respect for the rules (while no doubt speeding yourself regularly) and decide that rather than driving safely and to the best of your ability, you will endanger them with your car. An eye-for-an-eye type thing. Or in this case, trying to hit someone with 1.5 tonnes of steel at 50mph because they might hit that steel with their what? Podgy elbow? Lycra-clad thigh at 5-10mph?Yeah sounds commensurate. You t
t.walm said:
seveb said:
The one sector of cyclists I have very little respect for is the group who turn the roads into their private race track, ignoring traffic rules. They have no respect for others - even pedestrians. These I will overtake as soon as there's no oncoming traffic and I'm not particularly bothered how much space I give them as they're not bothered about that when they overtake me. What goes around and all that - if they want to be treated respectfully then the first step is to start treating others with respect.
So you see their lack of respect for the rules (while no doubt speeding yourself regularly) and decide that rather than driving safely and to the best of your ability, you will endanger them with your car. An eye-for-an-eye type thing. Or in this case, trying to hit someone with 1.5 tonnes of steel at 50mph because they might hit that steel with their what? Podgy elbow? Lycra-clad thigh at 5-10mph?Yeah sounds commensurate. You t
t.This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
lyonspride said:
I think the answers are loosely hidden within the sentence "They have no respect for others".
This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
That's not the case I doubt with the vast majority of drivers, it's not size or speed, but how they treat you. Until the racing cyclists solve that problem they're not going to receive any respect.This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
Try replacing cyclist with horse rider, car driver, lorry driver. Anybody who goes around ignoring traffic signs and rules and barging about like they own the road will not have the respect of other road users. It's the arrogance of the cyclists which stops them seeing this.
T-195 said:
Randy Winkman said:
I agree. Mr Hedgehog gave himself away a bit with the "great driving roads" comment. That suggests driving for fun; why shouldn't the cyclists have fun?
At least cars are easily identifiable with their rather large number plates, and pay a fair amount of tax just to use the roads.You can't just compare one thing with another.
You know the bulk of the money that pays for local roads comes from Council Tax, right? And that "Road Tax" hasn't existed since 1936, got rid of by Winston Churchill just so that cretins wouldn't presume that by paying directly for the roads that it would confer some form of ownership? And that VED is currently placed into general taxation funds, not ringfenced for roads? And that you come across as being an absolute t
twaffle.If I'm out on my bike, then my car is not on the road. I'm causing less wear and tear, and taking up less space, but still paying exactly the same amount of VED per day as I would if I were driving my car. Now I ride in the New Forest. I often pull in to passing places, and get appreciation for that from drivers. but I won't put myself into a verge for them to pass if it isn't safe. Now if only the same were true of the majority of motorists I meet. But it isn't. Far too often I'm already past a passing place on a road, and heading toward another. An oncoming car appears, and will actively accelerate to avoid pulling into that passing place. Then they'll expect me to drive, or ride onto the verge to accommodate them. Contributors on this thread speak of "respect" (or lack thereof) for others, and for the rules of the road. But "they" (here I lump all drivers together, as morons do when hating on bicycle riders) show none of this mystical "respect".
In the last two days i've had a woman nearly run me down on a zebra crossing on a one way road, because she took a wrong turn and decided it was too far to go back to the roundabout and turned back through a stop line to short-cut back to where she needed to be. I witnessed several illegal right turns in heavy traffic in Reading when festival traffic was clogging up the roads. I saw someone reverse along the hard shoulder to get off the M27 where it fizzles out into the A31, to avoid stand-still traffic, and I, and two other cars at a three lane traffic light watched in slack-jawed amazement as a red Corsa drove through a red traffic light AFTER we'd begun to move for our green light, passing a car that had stopped for their red. Oh, and a set of temporary lights in Hartley Wintney where the light went amber as i approached, so instead of barging on through I moved back to the left and stopped normally at the stop sign, only for someone in one of those hatchbacks that used to be an Astra before the Koreans made it under another name to shoot out of the queue from two cars back and blast through the three-way lights at speed. So don't go spouting "lack of respect for the law/rules of the road" guff at me until your house is fully in order...
Randy Winkman said:
frisbee said:
Retroman said:
Always amazes me, that the more someone has a hatred towards cyclists the more often they use the word lycra.
Is it some sort of closet fetish?
More of a dash fetish. Why do you think most are incapable of changing down a gear or two when they overtake, what is that hand up to....Is it some sort of closet fetish?
Solocle said:
seveb said:
There are several different types of cyclist. Children, Mr and Mrs Average on a bike going to work or shopping - they need our assistance, they are not fast nor probably very experienced, especially younger people cycling to school. I have great respect for these cyclists and will go out of my way to overtake safely, give them plenty of room and hang back in case something happens. I expect we're all in agreement with this ?
The one sector of cyclists I have very little respect for is the group who turn the roads into their private race track, ignoring traffic rules. They have no respect for others - even pedestrians. These I will overtake as soon as there's no oncoming traffic and I'm not particularly bothered how much space I give them as they're not bothered about that when they overtake me. What goes around and all that - if they want to be treated respectfully then the first step is to start treating others with respect.
Given that you'll only know that they disobey traffic rules if you observe them for a significant length of time, you're not in a position to make that judgement. There's no correlation with lycra - I wear lycra more often than not, but I obey traffic rules. When I see someone jump a red light, they're more often than not Mr Average.The one sector of cyclists I have very little respect for is the group who turn the roads into their private race track, ignoring traffic rules. They have no respect for others - even pedestrians. These I will overtake as soon as there's no oncoming traffic and I'm not particularly bothered how much space I give them as they're not bothered about that when they overtake me. What goes around and all that - if they want to be treated respectfully then the first step is to start treating others with respect.
When I inevitably pass Mr Average after the light turns green, I might reduce the space I leave somewhat. But I don't think there's a correlation between cycling for sport, and disobeying traffic laws. In fact, I expect that "Average" cyclists behave more like pedestrians.
On the same journey I was following a cycle-superhighway, but couldn't actually ride IN it for parked cars, partly dismantled market stalls, and broken glass. I was abused by a BMW driver and told to "get in the bike lane" because I was "holding traffic up". The irony was that he was driving in the COMPLETELY EMPTY oncoming traffic lane while telling me this. So the only person holding up anything behind me was him. This, by the way, came after he tooted his horn and waved his arms about at me, and I pointed out said empty lane to him. I just put it down to London air pollution addling his brain, poor fella. Either that or he was born stupid and was working really hard at getting stupider*
* clearly I don't need a moron to point out the fact that this isn't really a word
lyonspride said:
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
I don't think it's this actually.I suspect it's the case that car drivers are, by and large, trying to get somewhere. Large groups of cyclists (which is what this thread was about) are not heading anywhere - probably just back to their cars ultimately. The road is merely a bit of sport to enter into their 'competitive time' app (not allowed to call it racing).
NDA said:
lyonspride said:
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
I don't think it's this actually.I suspect it's the case that car drivers are, by and large, trying to get somewhere. Large groups of cyclists (which is what this thread was about) are not heading anywhere - probably just back to their cars ultimately. The road is merely a bit of sport to enter into their 'competitive time' app (not allowed to call it racing).
NDA said:
I don't think it's this actually.
I suspect it's the case that car drivers are, by and large, trying to get somewhere. Large groups of cyclists (which is what this thread was about) are not heading anywhere - probably just back to their cars ultimately. The road is merely a bit of sport to enter into their 'competitive time' app (not allowed to call it racing).
Well, enjoyment / sport isn't prohibited. Plus, it's exercise, so saving the NHS money and all that.I suspect it's the case that car drivers are, by and large, trying to get somewhere. Large groups of cyclists (which is what this thread was about) are not heading anywhere - probably just back to their cars ultimately. The road is merely a bit of sport to enter into their 'competitive time' app (not allowed to call it racing).
Generally, group rides avoid times like rush hour. I've ridden at rush hour solo, and it's quite funny, whizzing past the stationary traffic jams.
At other times, a cyclist, or a group thereof, really shouldn't hold anybody up for very long. Wait for an opportunity to overtake, then execute it expediently. After all, nobody seems to get so riled up about caravans...
seveb said:
Anybody who goes around ignoring traffic signs and rules and barging about like they own the road will not have the respect of other road users. It's the arrogance of the cyclists which stops them seeing this.
So you don't regularly break the speed limit then?And don't you think it is just a little arrogant to consider YOURSELF the person best positioned to punish these evil road users?
seveb said:
lyonspride said:
I think the answers are loosely hidden within the sentence "They have no respect for others".
This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
That's not the case I doubt with the vast majority of drivers, it's not size or speed, but how they treat you. Until the racing cyclists solve that problem they're not going to receive any respect.This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
Try replacing cyclist with horse rider, car driver, lorry driver. Anybody who goes around ignoring traffic signs and rules and barging about like they own the road will not have the respect of other road users. It's the arrogance of the cyclists which stops them seeing this.
As for ignoring rules and traffic safety signs, I commute in to the ‘cycling capital of the UK’ sometimes by bike, sometimes by car. I see misdemeanours by drivers far, far outweighing those by cyclists.
On a typical journey I will see two or three cars running red lights; most cars breaking 20 and 30 limits; many cars driving into forward stop boxes; cars crossing solid lines to overtake cyclists travelling faster than 10mph and entering ‘solid’ cycle lanes to pass right turning vehicles. If you can put your hand on your heart and say that you never do any of these things then maybe you are justified in criticising cyclists behaviour....
Foss62 said:
seveb said:
lyonspride said:
I think the answers are loosely hidden within the sentence "They have no respect for others".
This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
That's not the case I doubt with the vast majority of drivers, it's not size or speed, but how they treat you. Until the racing cyclists solve that problem they're not going to receive any respect.This is what all this really comes down to, AUTHORITY and social ranking..............
Many drivers believe that the bigger and more expensive your vehicle, the more respect you should be given. I think is the primary reason why cyclists get so much flak, they're seen as the lowest of the low, as non-humans who should kowtow and show respect for their superiors. If not actually spoken in as many words, this is the subconscious mentality behind all the anger and rage.
Try replacing cyclist with horse rider, car driver, lorry driver. Anybody who goes around ignoring traffic signs and rules and barging about like they own the road will not have the respect of other road users. It's the arrogance of the cyclists which stops them seeing this.
As for ignoring rules and traffic safety signs, I commute in to the ‘cycling capital of the UK’ sometimes by bike, sometimes by car. I see misdemeanours by drivers far, far outweighing those by cyclists.
On a typical journey I will see two or three cars running red lights; most cars breaking 20 and 30 limits; many cars driving into forward stop boxes; cars crossing solid lines to overtake cyclists travelling faster than 10mph and entering ‘solid’ cycle lanes to pass right turning vehicles. If you can put your hand on your heart and say that you never do any of these things then maybe you are justified in criticising cyclists behaviour....
So percentage wise a driver is more likely to see a cyclist breaking the law, and a cyclist is more likely to see drivers breaking the law.
lyonspride said:
Yes, but due to speed differential you have "interactions" with more drivers during your commute than a driver does (and less cyclists), as they'll probably be behind and in front of the same 2 vehicles for most of their commute. Equally on the same note and for the same reasons, in traffic drivers encounter more cyclists on their commute, than they do drivers.
So percentage wise a driver is more likely to see a cyclist breaking the law, and a cyclist is more likely to see drivers breaking the law.
Not to mention cyclists on a journey will make up 1/78 of cars... So if it were 50:50 one would see 78 times as many. Whether I am cycling or driving some offences are far more prevalent with cyclists but others are more prevalent with cars/motorists but overall it's not proportionate and most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists. It's of course a complete deflection to say that, because one group does something wrong, then no criticisms can be leveled by them.So percentage wise a driver is more likely to see a cyclist breaking the law, and a cyclist is more likely to see drivers breaking the law.
Graveworm said:
Not to mention cyclists on a journey will make up 1/78 of cars... So if it were 50:50 one would see 78 times as many. Whether I am cycling or driving some offences are far more prevalent with cyclists but others are more prevalent with cars/motorists but overall it's not proportionate and most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists. It's of course a complete deflection to say that, because one group does something wrong, then no criticisms can be leveled by them.
Depends where you are. In Oxford, 20% cycling, so you'd expect to see 5x more motor violations. The number of vehicles sat in ASLs, speeding, entering cycle lanes, making piss-poor overtakes..., easily dwarfs the cyclists jumping reds that I see. Of course, there's also the salmoning and ninja cyclists...My perspective is further shifted by the fact that I'm generally doing 20 mph, so I've often got a lower speed differential on the motorists than I do on the cyclists (it's often like other cyclists are standing still).
Needless to say, the most dangerous stuff I see arises from the bad motorists. Bad cyclists are a much lesser hazard.
Graveworm said:
Most cyclists should accept that cyclists do bend the rules more than motorists.
What on earth makes you think that????This is utter and complete nonsense.
Most drivers admit to speeding. https://www.driving.co.uk/news/half-drivers-admit-...
A very much lower number of cyclists have been observed RLJing which is one of the very few rules cyclists can actually break. https://cyclinguphill.com/reviews/stats-cycling-re...
Please make me laugh - where is your evidence that cyclists break the rules more than drivers?????
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