Driving Too Slowly Is Dangerous

Driving Too Slowly Is Dangerous

Author
Discussion

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Monday 28th October 2019
quotequote all
RATATTAK said:
OK let's sling another scenario in the mix. How about the lorry doing 56.5 mph overtaking the lorry doing 56 mph on a two lane motorway. Happens a lot on the M180.
What's your point?
You think someone else is a dick, so it's ok for you to be a dick too?
We've now got a world full of dicks instead half a world of dicks then.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
I've always thought it was about manners, not what is technically right or wrong.
Whenever I've been driving a slow vehicle (classic car/clutch issues/towing/just sight seeing) I've always been aware of what's behind me.

I don't like having people stuck right behind me for miles trying to get passed, so as soon as possible I'll find a field entrance or lay by and pull over to let them by. It's a minor inconvenience for me and stops people getting too frustrated. I thought it was in the highway code as well about pulling over if you are causing tailbacks.
I don't habitually dawdle and happily overtake if it's safe to do so and find it amusing that for some reason slow drivers always seem to think they are morally in the right, and always seem to want to comment about the fact that you've overtaken them if you meet them later. I usually just reply calmly by putting it in basics, two cars are on the road, one wants to drive faster than the other one so passes it. what's the problem?

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
Precisely, I do a fair few miles out in the sticks on windy and undulating roads where I genuinely could go quicker. Except the dog's in the back, and while it's possible to punt an off roader down said roads quicker, he doesn't appreciate it and eventually I'd be cleaning up some puke.

Therefore on the rare occasions get someone behind wanting to go quicker, look for a place and assist their pass. It's not difficult.

Having said that, even though I'm driving what is to me fairly sedately prioritising smoothness along with safety, obviously, it's surprising how few catch me up and want to go quicker, except in the village 30's that is, also obviously. :sigh:

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
eccles said:
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
I've always thought it was about manners, not what is technically right or wrong.
Whenever I've been driving a slow vehicle (classic car/clutch issues/towing/just sight seeing) I've always been aware of what's behind me.

I don't like having people stuck right behind me for miles trying to get passed, so as soon as possible I'll find a field entrance or lay by and pull over to let them by. It's a minor inconvenience for me and stops people getting too frustrated. I thought it was in the highway code as well about pulling over if you are causing tailbacks.
I don't habitually dawdle and happily overtake if it's safe to do so and find it amusing that for some reason slow drivers always seem to think they are morally in the right, and always seem to want to comment about the fact that you've overtaken them if you meet them later. I usually just reply calmly by putting it in basics, two cars are on the road, one wants to drive faster than the other one so passes it. what's the problem?
Which is why the offence if any that would be used appropriately for them is inconsiderate driving, whilst for the overtaker who messed up passing them it would be more appropriate for dangerous/careless driving.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
Sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. To try and blame the slow driver for the bad driving of someone overtaking them, just bonkers. How would the insurance view it, would the insurer of the reckless overtaker go after the insurer of the of the slow driver, who wasn't actually involved in the accident?

Seriously, you may not like slow drivers, but get a grip.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
Sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. To try and blame the slow driver for the bad driving of someone overtaking them, just bonkers. How would the insurance view it, would the insurer of the reckless overtaker go after the insurer of the of the slow driver, who wasn't actually involved in the accident?

Seriously, you may not like slow drivers, but get a grip.
Argh no, I agree with Twig and Vonhosen....whats going on.... hehe

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
Let's be totally honest here - no matter what speed that person was driving there will be an Audi TDi glued to the rear bumper boiling-over with self-righteous rage totally convinced they are being held up, and willing to perform any sort of overtake to get to that elusive nirvana that always always lies just ahead of the next vehicle in the line....

The problem lies 100% with the mindset of a large proportion of drivers today that when confronted with something that differs from their own narrow opinion of what anyone should be doing, they no longer have any patience or tolerance or the ability to just act like an adult.

And as VH says, this is why we now have a lot more enforcement and stuff like 20 limits everywhere and 60s becoming 40s, because people are utterly incapable of acting with any restraint or consideration, they act like children, and it's getting worse.

When I learned to drive 20+ years ago, road behavior was so much better. In the past few years it has declined rapidly.

lyonspride

2,978 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
JimSuperSix said:
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
Let's be totally honest here - no matter what speed that person was driving there will be an Audi TDi glued to the rear bumper boiling-over with self-righteous rage totally convinced they are being held up, and willing to perform any sort of overtake to get to that elusive nirvana that always always lies just ahead of the next vehicle in the line....

The problem lies 100% with the mindset of a large proportion of drivers today that when confronted with something that differs from their own narrow opinion of what anyone should be doing, they no longer have any patience or tolerance or the ability to just act like an adult.

And as VH says, this is why we now have a lot more enforcement and stuff like 20 limits everywhere and 60s becoming 40s, because people are utterly incapable of acting with any restraint or consideration, they act like children, and it's getting worse.

When I learned to drive 20+ years ago, road behavior was so much better. In the past few years it has declined rapidly.
Without doubt it has, but it's not just aggressive driving, yes there are more aggressive drivers, but there is something on the roads now which was 10+ years ago, the "passive-aggressive", the people who will try to cause agro without actually doing anything illegal or obviously aggressive. They're the idiots who will tootle along at 45mph in a 60 limit and then slow down when they see another driver fast approaching at 60mph, they actively go out of their way to wind up other drivers.

It's my belief that the rise in angry/aggressive drivers correlates with the rise in the passive-aggressive drivers, and that the later are creating much of the former.




eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
lyonspride said:
JimSuperSix said:
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
Let's be totally honest here - no matter what speed that person was driving there will be an Audi TDi glued to the rear bumper boiling-over with self-righteous rage totally convinced they are being held up, and willing to perform any sort of overtake to get to that elusive nirvana that always always lies just ahead of the next vehicle in the line....

The problem lies 100% with the mindset of a large proportion of drivers today that when confronted with something that differs from their own narrow opinion of what anyone should be doing, they no longer have any patience or tolerance or the ability to just act like an adult.

And as VH says, this is why we now have a lot more enforcement and stuff like 20 limits everywhere and 60s becoming 40s, because people are utterly incapable of acting with any restraint or consideration, they act like children, and it's getting worse.

When I learned to drive 20+ years ago, road behavior was so much better. In the past few years it has declined rapidly.
Without doubt it has, but it's not just aggressive driving, yes there are more aggressive drivers, but there is something on the roads now which was 10+ years ago, the "passive-aggressive", the people who will try to cause agro without actually doing anything illegal or obviously aggressive. They're the idiots who will tootle along at 45mph in a 60 limit and then slow down when they see another driver fast approaching at 60mph, they actively go out of their way to wind up other drivers.

It's my belief that the rise in angry/aggressive drivers correlates with the rise in the passive-aggressive drivers, and that the later are creating much of the former.
We have an old boy in work like that, he also has a big sticker on the boot lid of his Mondeo saying " caution, front and rear cameras fitted". I can't understand why fitting cameras should require other drivers to exercise caution!

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
Driving behaviour, in my experience, noticeably worsens in areas of higher population density. There are about 18% more people in the UK now than when I passed my test, and that's not a uniform 18% increase in density so much as localised increases and the expansion of high population density around centres of population. I don't think driver behaviour has particularly worsened away from the big conurbations, I think they're just larger and denser with more traffic.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
lyonspride said:
JimSuperSix said:
lyonspride said:
vonhosen said:
RATATTAK said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
36 in a 30 may well be dangerous, and so might 36 in an NSL on a very foggy day. Because it could be too fast. But 36 in an NSL, in good conditions. It might be selfish driving, or whatever, but explain the danger (other than other drivers getting frustrated and doing something stupid).
The danger is someone is going to be frustrated, pull out to overtake the dawdler, and collide with some poor bugger coming in the opposite direction.
The danger there is the overtaker.
We all might encounter slower moving vehicles (& there can be a variety of reasons that they may be travelling slower than we want to), it's up to us to safely negotiate them. If we get that wrong in an overtake then it's our fault. It's called personal responsibility.
Exactly the attitude I was talking about.......

"I know im pissing people off, I know this is causing aggravation, but that's ok because if this person goes full rage and kills somebody it's their own fault"

It's this passive-aggressive BS that causes the most danger on the roads.
Let's be totally honest here - no matter what speed that person was driving there will be an Audi TDi glued to the rear bumper boiling-over with self-righteous rage totally convinced they are being held up, and willing to perform any sort of overtake to get to that elusive nirvana that always always lies just ahead of the next vehicle in the line....

The problem lies 100% with the mindset of a large proportion of drivers today that when confronted with something that differs from their own narrow opinion of what anyone should be doing, they no longer have any patience or tolerance or the ability to just act like an adult.

And as VH says, this is why we now have a lot more enforcement and stuff like 20 limits everywhere and 60s becoming 40s, because people are utterly incapable of acting with any restraint or consideration, they act like children, and it's getting worse.

When I learned to drive 20+ years ago, road behavior was so much better. In the past few years it has declined rapidly.
Without doubt it has, but it's not just aggressive driving, yes there are more aggressive drivers, but there is something on the roads now which was 10+ years ago, the "passive-aggressive", the people who will try to cause agro without actually doing anything illegal or obviously aggressive. They're the idiots who will tootle along at 45mph in a 60 limit and then slow down when they see another driver fast approaching at 60mph, they actively go out of their way to wind up other drivers.

It's my belief that the rise in angry/aggressive drivers correlates with the rise in the passive-aggressive drivers, and that the later are creating much of the former.
I suspect it is in fact cause and effect the other way around - many people are so fed up with being constantly tailgated (which seems to now be the norm rather than the rare occurence it was not that long ago) that they react by slowing down to deliberately annoy the person behind, or in the hope that the person behind will overtake.

I've seen that happen, and see people driving way too close every single time I go anywhere, but I've don't think I've ever seen a person slow right down or braketest or whatever when the car behind was not behaving like a dhead.

Olivera

7,065 posts

238 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
Minimum speed of say 56mph on the motorway for a car in good conditions would be welcome.

If your car can't do that, or you want to drive slower, then get off the motorway and use A/B roads.

InitialDave

11,854 posts

118 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
I overtook a car on a straight, wide, 70mph dual carriageway the other day.

That may not sound worthy of remark, but at the time, I was in a fully laden LWB series Land Rover that's older than I am.

I've even overtaken people on country roads in it, without breaking the speed limit.

Some people drive in an astonishingly lethargic manner, it's almost impressive.

And I do the "back it off approaching a red light because there's no point rushing to a stop" thing most of the time too, irrespective of what I'm driving.

MKnight702

3,096 posts

213 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
lyonspride said:
"it's a limit not a target"
It may be a limit, but you should have a good reason for not making use if it, at least that was what my driving instructor taught me all those years ago.

I have another mantra that I use, "Never turn down a safe and legal overtake". You can almost guarantee that if I decide not to overtake somebody driving slower than I like, then they will let a tractor out of a side road just as you enter a twisty section where overtaking is impossible, or they will come up behind a slow moving lorry and proceed to drive too close so I can't overtake in two steps, or.... the opportunities for being punished for not overtaking are endless.

Those that flash their lights and sit there saying you haven't achieved anything by overtaking me are wrong, I have achieved getting in front of them which then opens up opportunities to disappear into the distance, even if I have to overtake more people to do so, plus I have eliminated the chance for the dawdler to permit more slow vehicles to pull out in front of them decreasing my chances to make progress.

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
InitialDave said:
I overtook a car on a straight, wide, 70mph dual carriageway the other day.

That may not sound worthy of remark, but at the time, I was in a fully laden LWB series Land Rover that's older than I am.

I've even overtaken people on country roads in it, without breaking the speed limit.

Some people drive in an astonishingly lethargic manner, it's almost impressive.

And I do the "back it off approaching a red light because there's no point rushing to a stop" thing most of the time too, irrespective of what I'm driving.
I can relate to that comment about still managing an overtake in a not very quick vehicle. I can still manage the odd overtake in a 1970 bay window T2 caravette. It's always legal too as these days it struggles to get much past 60, maybe on the downhill parts of the M5, not sure about some arse recommending a minimum of 56mph, that would be a struggle with a headwind.

GTiWILL

778 posts

77 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
It’s the cocks who drive at 40 in a 60 and then accelerate when you try to pass that piss me off.


BobSaunders

3,027 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
My usual journey speed is 80mph+ to about 90mph+. For first time ever, after 8pm, i drove the M6, M6 Toll, M42, M40, A34 with cruise control set at 75mph (apart from the roadworks), and only with small bursts of a couple of a few hundred meters at 80mph in certain situations where i just needed to get out of there as braking, in my opinion would have increased the risk.

It was genuinely eye opening as i was stuck with/in certain scenarios for several minutes.. the conclusion was that, in my opinion, the level of driving competence is abysmal in the UK, . People deliberately blocking overtakes by speeding up and then slowing, people deliberately causing elephant races, people pulling out without indicating, people accelerating into gaps when there was not one, people tailgating etc. etc.

I prefer the 80mph+ crowd.



Psycho Warren

3,087 posts

112 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
If the road conditions are good and traffic doesnt prohibit it, then in a modern vehicle, there is no excuse to be doing well below the speed limit in 30 or 40.

Should be a specific offence. When I took my test in the 90's, dawdling would get you failed - ie its not acceptable behaviour on the roads if it fails a driving test.

I see it so often on the way in to work, some retard doing 20-25 in a 30 for no reason. They must be aware of the que of drivers behind them unless they ar blind. Overtake and it usually provokes road rage of some form.

Their vehicle is capable of the speed limit safely, the conditions are appropriate to do up to the speed limit safely so there is no valid excuse to not do up to or at least almost the speed limit. excuses like "they might be old or disabled" are not acceptable, If you as a driver are not capable of driving at 30 in those described circumstances then you arent safe enough to have a license.

lyonspride

2,978 posts

154 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
JimSuperSix said:
I suspect it is in fact cause and effect the other way around - many people are so fed up with being constantly tailgated (which seems to now be the norm rather than the rare occurence it was not that long ago) that they react by slowing down to deliberately annoy the person behind, or in the hope that the person behind will overtake.

I've seen that happen, and see people driving way too close every single time I go anywhere, but I've don't think I've ever seen a person slow right down or braketest or whatever when the car behind was not behaving like a dhead.
Nah, it's just outrage culture playing out on the roads. These people want trouble, they want to be offended or outraged, it gives them a pseudo moral high ground and allows them chance to play the victim.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
quotequote all
MKnight702 said:
Those that flash their lights and sit there saying you haven't achieved anything by overtaking me are wrong, I have achieved getting in front of them which then opens up opportunities to disappear into the distance, even if I have to overtake more people to do so, plus I have eliminated the chance for the dawdler to permit more slow vehicles to pull out in front of them decreasing my chances to make progress.
But, lacking the cognitive abilities to spot the bias, they will use those occasions when they did subsequently catch up with someone who overtook them to "prove" that overtaking doesn't get you there any faster because you just catch up later.