No right turn sign.

No right turn sign.

Author
Discussion

RB Will

6,926 posts

204 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Baaaartz said:
Right 2 simple things, anyone advise on the first one is appreciated

1. This offence is dealt with a PCN, I suppose a fine and no points?
I answered this about 5 posts into the thread.

warch

2,935 posts

118 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
I did this about seven or eight times in Camberwell, think the right turn was for cyclists and buses. Got away with it though. In my defence I think the road layout had been changed since my satnav software was last updated.

Getragdogleg

6,945 posts

147 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
That is unclear signage.

I read that there is no left or right turns.

Except cycles who can turn so long as it's not within the ties stated.

wazztie16

1,151 posts

95 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Getragdogleg said:
That is unclear signage.

I read that there is no left or right turns.

Except cycles who can turn so long as it's not within the ties stated.
It seems like it's no turn EXCEPT cycles in the times allotted, probably to facilitate rush hour and meaning cyclists don't feel they have to use the pavement to gain a shortcut. Makes sense to me.

Having had ANOTHER look, I think yes, cyclists CAN'T turn in the times allotted, similar to no car use in a timed bus lane.

I'm glad there's no signs like it where I live or work!

Edited by wazztie16 on Wednesday 3rd March 18:09

Getragdogleg

6,945 posts

147 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
It doesn't help op in that case, they cannot turn at all ever!

I am convinced it's left and right turns prohibited for everything except cycles outside of those times.

That's probably not what the council had in mind and probably different to what the tro says!

Baaaartz

Original Poster:

85 posts

9 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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I’m not gonna lie I’m starting to hate that Finchley Road in london, as soon as you come up the a41 from the M1 it’s a nightmare with all the restrictions etc on it, it’s almost impossible to drive anywhere other than in a straight line during morning hours in a HGV.

Like I said I hold my hands up to it, I seen the sign and decided to ignore it thinking I know better lol, I’ll take the fine IF it comes lol.

Also joining in on the discussion, the prohibited turn is only enforceable during the set hours, outside of these hours you are able to make that turn, I spoke to one of my friends who is a hgv driving instructor and to his understanding that’s what it means.

If it was a no turn sign enforced 24/7 I suppose there wouldn’t be any point putting any times on it, I suppose it would say no turning at any time or something along these lines, the except cycles bit applies all the time they can go there at any time.

Regardless I find it extremely pathetic as it is a 2 way street, it’s a residential area and they’re only making it harder for people to get to they’re homes during these hours? Lol.

Like i said I feel the pain of the residents of Briardale Gardens and Pattison Road, Finchley Road at 3pm is a nightmare and the only option at the moment with these signs being enforced is to go to one of the busiest junctions in Finchley and turn left into Platts Lane, and on a good day that can take some time.

Getragdogleg

6,945 posts

147 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
It's pretty much why we don't run our vehicles into London at all anym.

Too many wallet raiding opportunities and sneaky rule changes/hard to read while trying to actually drive signs.


T6 vanman

1,705 posts

63 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
That sign is crystal clear,

NO LEFT Right turn,

Except if your on a cycle on Mon~Fri between 6:00~10:30 or 15:00~20:30 where you are allowed to perform a LEFT Right turn. wobble

No ideas for a name

956 posts

50 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
T6 vanman said:
That sign is crystal clear,

NO LEFT Right turn,

Except if your on a cycle on Mon~Fri between 6:00~10:30 or 15:00~20:30 where you are allowed to perform a LEFT Right turn. wobble
Yep... 100% this.
Like I said in post 6... I can't turn left when riding my bike on a Sunday.

It does differ from what was apparently intended as described in the screen print from the Council's web site.
Defective signage.

To answer the OP's worry, though I am not an authority on this, I think it is a Council PCN that he is facing. That will be a fine only, no points. I suspect that if you were actually stopped by the Police, then it would be a different offence and that would attract points.


EDIT: Updated post number; Added Penalty comment.

Edited by No ideas for a name on Wednesday 3rd March 19:35

stemll

2,525 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Baaaartz said:
Regarding the post above.

The intent from this screen grab is that motor vehicles are prohibited from turning during the times stated, it doesn't mention cycles but, as they are not motor vehicles, they can turn at any time.

As a few others have said, the sign doesn't match this, the sign prohibits turning for motor vehicles at all times and only allows cycles during the stated times.

The "Except Cycles" should be under the times as per the middle image here



That way, the restriction applies at the stated times except for cycles to which it never applies.

No ideas for a name

956 posts

50 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
stemll said:
The intent from this screen grab is that motor vehicles are prohibited from turning during the times stated, it doesn't mention cycles but, as they are not motor vehicles, they can turn at any time.

As a few others have said, the sign doesn't match this, the sign prohibits turning for motor vehicles at all times and only allows cycles during the stated times.

The "Except Cycles" should be under the times as per the middle image here



That way, the restriction applies at the stated times except for cycles to which it never applies.
This.

As far as I understand it, this means the sign doesn't match the TRO (though we would need to see the actual TRO rather than the interpretation in the screen print albeit from the Council's own web site).

What are the chances that anyone caught in the past could over turn the fines?
If you are fining motorists (or even cyclists) on the basis of signage - then that signage better be right.



Baaaartz

Original Poster:

85 posts

9 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Getragdogleg said:
It's pretty much why we don't run our vehicles into London at all anym.

Too many wallet raiding opportunities and sneaky rule changes/hard to read while trying to actually drive signs.
I honestly don’t mind driving into London, it’s just certain roads and roundabouts that I hate especially in Highgate and Holloway and Cricklewood area other than that its not too bad tbh.

Like i said I’ll take the fine on the chin and move on if anything comes out of it; there is always a chance I haven’t been clocked by an camera operator fingers crossed.

The sign is clear there and there is no debating that, I just wanted to know what the outcome is on stuff like that.

I don’t blame you for not sending stuff into london anymore though I must admit the traffic can get a bit intense and it’s so easy to misjudge a yellow box junction or simply miss a sign as your focusing on an idiot moped driver right next to your cab lol.

SmoothCriminal

3,440 posts

163 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
No ideas for a name said:
stemll said:
The intent from this screen grab is that motor vehicles are prohibited from turning during the times stated, it doesn't mention cycles but, as they are not motor vehicles, they can turn at any time.

As a few others have said, the sign doesn't match this, the sign prohibits turning for motor vehicles at all times and only allows cycles during the stated times.

The "Except Cycles" should be under the times as per the middle image here



That way, the restriction applies at the stated times except for cycles to which it never applies.
This.

As far as I understand it, this means the sign doesn't match the TRO (though we would need to see the actual TRO rather than the interpretation in the screen print albeit from the Council's own web site).

What are the chances that anyone caught in the past could over turn the fines?
If you are fining motorists (or even cyclists) on the basis of signage - then that signage better be right.

How could they overturn the fine as no matter what your interpretation of that sign motor vehicles are banned from the turn, whether you take it as the times shown or all times expect cyclists.

No ideas for a name

956 posts

50 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
SmoothCriminal said:
How could they overturn the fine as no matter what your interpretation of that sign motor vehicles are banned from the turn, whether you take it as the times shown or all times expect cyclists.
Simply because the sign as displayed dosen't comply with the TRO.
It was a question rather than a statement of fact... is failing to comply with an 'illegal' sign an offence?

Toltec

6,434 posts

187 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
I reckon the intent is to stop everyone who doesn't know the area from making those turns at any time. The cyclist thing is irrelevant they/we would ignore it anyway wink

Timbuktu

1,922 posts

119 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
sixor8 said:
Did I miss the obvious? It's reads clearly to me; only cycles can turn right (or left) during those times. To suggest they can't at other times would be bizarre.
T6 vanman said:
That sign is crystal clear,

NO LEFT Right turn,

Except if your on a cycle on Mon~Fri between 6:00~10:30 or 15:00~20:30 where you are allowed to perform a LEFT Right turn. wobble
If it was that clear we wouldn't be arguing about it lol.

Personally I agree with Sixor8 but who knows.

Terminator X

10,745 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
£130 fine for me on a pointless no right turn reduced to £65 if paid within 14 days. Utter scum imho although no doubt considered by many on here as a "tax on fools" wink

TX.

CoolHands

12,434 posts

159 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
That’s mental

And anyway what harm could a bicycle do turning into that road at 11am that it doesn’t do at 9am? Or vice-versa depending on whichever way it’s meant to be read

Dicks

No ideas for a name

956 posts

50 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
It would be amusing to submit a Freedom of Information request to find out how many fines have been issued for offences on relation to this 'illegal' sign.

Zirconium

69 posts

53 months

Thursday 4th March
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What time did you make your turn OP? You said morning, so I guess it was between 6 - 10.30am? If outside of those times, I guess you could make the argument that you did not think it applied to you.