Another buyer asking money off after deal and collection
Discussion
Caddyshack said:
Hi All,
This is possibly just a vent but a double check to my assumptions.
I listed a 2011 Horse Trailer on FB market place. Within 5 mins I had a private buyer trying to buy it over the phone. Then a few mins later I had a trader contact me and ask if still available, I said that it was but had someone offering on it. The box was listed at £4,500 which is fairly cheap as I knew it would sell fast like that.
The trader said to forget the other buyer, he would pay a deposit there and then with the balance on collection but his offer was a firm £4k. We danced about with me trying £4250, meet me in the middle etc but he said he buys and sells 10 per month and it was £4k firm. I took the deposit.
His collection chap drove from Newcastle to just past Guildford to collect so at least 5 hrs. He said it was lovely, thought they would have paid more but had to factor in the £300 diesel and time to collect. He commented that it was great condition and they normally did not get service records, spare keys and all the security with it. He phoned the boss, they had a chat and then the rest of the money hit my account.
2 days later the trader texted me to say there was a problem with the roof. I said that I knew the previous owner has bumped a garage but had it repaired (it is fibre glass) Trader said he was not aware and it needs a whole new roof. I said it is cosmetic, 11 yrs old, doesnt leak and he bought it cheap, if he wanted to paint the roof he could spend a few quid at Halfords on fibre glass resin and paint but it was repaired properly and does not cause any issues.
Then 4 hrs later he asked for me to send him £300 to help cover the cost. I declined.
He then phoned up telling me that I must pay him or he would deliver the trailer back. I explained that if he did that it would be at his cost and for me to decide if I wanted to refund him and I was within my rights as a private seller to decline or make an offer to buy back. He demanded the money or a return and full refund and he would be here next week.
I told him to check his rights with his Solicitor and as a gesture I would take it back if he delivered it and I would keep £300 for my trouble / lost buyer / lost time....his parting shot was "we will sort it" I said I did not understand what he meant and he just repeated "we will sort it"
I repeated that if he wanted me to take it back I would refund all but £300 and if he thought I was not being fair then he should consult his Solicitor.
Does this all seem within the spirit of the law, the spirit of the sale etc.?
He did not ask the condition at any stage, he did not ask for pictures and did not check any description with me. It is a lovely clean example and the guy that picked it up said it will sell for £5k quickly when they advertised it.
I did not mention the roof repair to him as it did not even cross my mind (4 inch square patch) only seen when on a ladder on the outside and does not change the way it works in any way at all.
I also offered that if he wanted to unbolt the roof and courier it to me I would raptor spray it all one colour or paint the whole roof for free myself and then courier back to me. He declined which makes me think he is just trying it on?
As others have said tell him to "trot on"This is possibly just a vent but a double check to my assumptions.
I listed a 2011 Horse Trailer on FB market place. Within 5 mins I had a private buyer trying to buy it over the phone. Then a few mins later I had a trader contact me and ask if still available, I said that it was but had someone offering on it. The box was listed at £4,500 which is fairly cheap as I knew it would sell fast like that.
The trader said to forget the other buyer, he would pay a deposit there and then with the balance on collection but his offer was a firm £4k. We danced about with me trying £4250, meet me in the middle etc but he said he buys and sells 10 per month and it was £4k firm. I took the deposit.
His collection chap drove from Newcastle to just past Guildford to collect so at least 5 hrs. He said it was lovely, thought they would have paid more but had to factor in the £300 diesel and time to collect. He commented that it was great condition and they normally did not get service records, spare keys and all the security with it. He phoned the boss, they had a chat and then the rest of the money hit my account.
2 days later the trader texted me to say there was a problem with the roof. I said that I knew the previous owner has bumped a garage but had it repaired (it is fibre glass) Trader said he was not aware and it needs a whole new roof. I said it is cosmetic, 11 yrs old, doesnt leak and he bought it cheap, if he wanted to paint the roof he could spend a few quid at Halfords on fibre glass resin and paint but it was repaired properly and does not cause any issues.
Then 4 hrs later he asked for me to send him £300 to help cover the cost. I declined.
He then phoned up telling me that I must pay him or he would deliver the trailer back. I explained that if he did that it would be at his cost and for me to decide if I wanted to refund him and I was within my rights as a private seller to decline or make an offer to buy back. He demanded the money or a return and full refund and he would be here next week.
I told him to check his rights with his Solicitor and as a gesture I would take it back if he delivered it and I would keep £300 for my trouble / lost buyer / lost time....his parting shot was "we will sort it" I said I did not understand what he meant and he just repeated "we will sort it"
I repeated that if he wanted me to take it back I would refund all but £300 and if he thought I was not being fair then he should consult his Solicitor.
Does this all seem within the spirit of the law, the spirit of the sale etc.?
He did not ask the condition at any stage, he did not ask for pictures and did not check any description with me. It is a lovely clean example and the guy that picked it up said it will sell for £5k quickly when they advertised it.
I did not mention the roof repair to him as it did not even cross my mind (4 inch square patch) only seen when on a ladder on the outside and does not change the way it works in any way at all.
I also offered that if he wanted to unbolt the roof and courier it to me I would raptor spray it all one colour or paint the whole roof for free myself and then courier back to me. He declined which makes me think he is just trying it on?
Had a guy try this with me recently - bought my D3, haggled for ages on price - tried to stiff me £40, then tried to get me to throw in my code reader, then wanted all the V5 (got told firmly no, as I know I need to keep that bit!) and then later on came back to say it had broken down on the way home.
I just reminded him that part of his negotiation was that he wouldn't come back if it broke down and shut the door. Was just laughable.
I just reminded him that part of his negotiation was that he wouldn't come back if it broke down and shut the door. Was just laughable.
I had similar years ago when I sold a faulty Nikon DSLR lens (all faults fully described). Once delivered the buyer contacted me claiming it was scratched (which I knew it wasn't) and that he wanted a partial refund.
Replied saying that I knew it wasn't scratched and that I had photos of the serial number and all the elements but if he wasn't happy he could return it I would refund less postage. Didn't hear anything more.
The world is full of chancers and if half of the people they try it with pay up then it's worth their time.
Replied saying that I knew it wasn't scratched and that I had photos of the serial number and all the elements but if he wasn't happy he could return it I would refund less postage. Didn't hear anything more.
The world is full of chancers and if half of the people they try it with pay up then it's worth their time.
Thanks all. It has left a horrible taste in my mouth all day as I thought it was a fair deal done. I think you are all right and it helps to have a sounding board.
It felt very much as he was trying to bully an improved margin as he wasn’t interested in any suggestions or that it was a simple cosmetic fix if he felt it needed doing (which it didn’t)
I will now happily tell him to do one with a clear mind.
It felt very much as he was trying to bully an improved margin as he wasn’t interested in any suggestions or that it was a simple cosmetic fix if he felt it needed doing (which it didn’t)
I will now happily tell him to do one with a clear mind.
OscarIndia said:
He is a trader and as such judged as a professional.
He has no comeback, just tell him that it was sold as seen in a trade deal.
+1He has no comeback, just tell him that it was sold as seen in a trade deal.
Ignore people who say that "sold as seen" is an impenetrable shield, it isn't.
But, in this case, assuming you are a bonafide private seller and not someone who regularly buys and sells cars (even if you're not formally a business you could be deemed a trader), and you didn't misdescribe it when selling it, then what OscarIndia said probably applies.
Trader had the benefit of an inspection, proceeded with the purchase accordingly, etc. It's not your problem that he was too far away to inspect it personally (if he claims the collection chap was not knowledgeable enough to question).
Since it is superficial damage and easily noticed I would feel that he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Doesn't mean he won't necessarily try his luck with a money claim online though.
Source: Me, someone who sold a car privately and subsequently had an illegitimate MCOL filed against me.
SpeckledJim said:
He’s just trying to turn his £500 margin into £800 by being a bully on the phone for 10 minutes. Easy money.
He’ll do it to every person he buys anything from, and enough people will give him some of THEIR money to encourage him to keep doing it.
I suspect this is close to the truth too.He’ll do it to every person he buys anything from, and enough people will give him some of THEIR money to encourage him to keep doing it.
Would also agree that you're being far too accommodating about an obvious "fault".
It was priced to sell, the buyer got an extra £500 (~11%) off that price. From the sounds of it he could flip it for more in no time at all without doing anything to rectify this "fault".
Just stop engaging with a clear conscience, you haven't done anything wrong.
It was priced to sell, the buyer got an extra £500 (~11%) off that price. From the sounds of it he could flip it for more in no time at all without doing anything to rectify this "fault".
Just stop engaging with a clear conscience, you haven't done anything wrong.
Durzel said:
SpeckledJim said:
He’s just trying to turn his £500 margin into £800 by being a bully on the phone for 10 minutes. Easy money.
He’ll do it to every person he buys anything from, and enough people will give him some of THEIR money to encourage him to keep doing it.
I suspect this is close to the truth too.He’ll do it to every person he buys anything from, and enough people will give him some of THEIR money to encourage him to keep doing it.
I've got 20 minutes before we go and get that Mondeo. Just pop outside and find something up with that trailer, and that Fiesta we got yesterday.
I'll give them both barrels on the phone and we'll see how we do."
Thanks all.
There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
Caddyshack said:
Thanks all.
There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
As others have said you're being far too accommodating to someone who ought to (and probably does) know better.There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
Offering a refund, taking it back minus £300, etc is way beyond what most would do. Private sales (usually) don't have the benefit of warranty, so the condition is "as is" at the point of sale. So long as you haven't clearly misdescribed it then there's really no comeback, especially when the other party is a trader themselves and therefore is assumed to be experienced and knowledgeable, including in the eyes of the law.
If you get any more messages simply say that it was a private sale and sold as seen, under market value, and that he had the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and indeed did so by proxy, and proceeded with the purchase in acceptance of the condition and price advertised.
If he drops the vehicle off at your place then let him know you'll be expecting rental payments for the parking space.
Durzel said:
Caddyshack said:
Thanks all.
There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
As others have said you're being far too accommodating to someone who ought to (and probably does) know better.There were no pics of the roof in the advert and I didn't mention the roof positively or negatively. It's 11 yrs old and the previous owner had a fibreglass repair on the fibreglass roof after he bumped it in a car park....it doesn't leak so you would not even know unless you got on a ladder and saw that the paint was a different shade of grey.
£30 of raptor liner on a shultz gun would have the whole roof looking brand new in one shade...no other work needed if you were inclined to change the cosmetics.
Appreciate all the comments, I have not sold any car or trailer in the last 5 yrs.
Thanks
Offering a refund, taking it back minus £300, etc is way beyond what most would do. Private sales (usually) don't have the benefit of warranty, so the condition is "as is" at the point of sale. So long as you haven't clearly misdescribed it then there's really no comeback, especially when the other party is a trader themselves and therefore is assumed to be experienced and knowledgeable, including in the eyes of the law.
If you get any more messages simply say that it was a private sale and sold as seen, under market value, and that he had the opportunity to inspect the vehicle and indeed did so by proxy, and proceeded with the purchase in acceptance of the condition and price advertised.
If he drops the vehicle off at your place then let him know you'll be expecting rental payments for the parking space.
Gareth79 said:
Canon_Fodder said:
OP did you mention the roof damage in your advert?
As a private seller, the only time it would be relevant would be if they stated "no roof damage". It's up to the buyer to look at the condition and negotiate a price, especially as a dealer. If they choose not thats their problem.
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