Speeding offence fiasco, any advice welcome
Discussion
Sheepshanks said:
macky17 said:
I still don't really see how she can plead not guilty to the failure to notify as it was our fault the envelope had insufficient postage attached.
The "insufficient postage" excuse it a bit odd - it's not it's an unusual size letter.
Sheepshanks said:
macky17 said:
I still don't really see how she can plead not guilty to the failure to notify as it was our fault the envelope had insufficient postage attached.
The "insufficient postage" excuse it a bit odd - it's not it's an unusual size letter.
macky17 said:
These were telephone enquiries to two solicitors, both of whom claimed to specialise in motoring offenses...
You need proper, paid advice, not a preliminary chat on the phone. At the very least you need a quote for the work so you can assess the cost/value of trying to run "not guilty" pleas on offences that look like a slam dunk.
I think agt has set out the most you're going to get from anywhere without paying.
This is in AGT's wheel house
Sadly your wife cannot under law pass the responsibility of notifying who was driving as she is the registered keeper so she is guilty of that offence now.
Under Section 172 that's an obligation, so she will likely get 6 points on her licence now and up to £1000 fine sorry! On the plus side son retains his driving profile.
Sadly your wife cannot under law pass the responsibility of notifying who was driving as she is the registered keeper so she is guilty of that offence now.
Under Section 172 that's an obligation, so she will likely get 6 points on her licence now and up to £1000 fine sorry! On the plus side son retains his driving profile.
I've defended myself successfully in a speeding case before.
Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
Edited by ingenieur on Monday 20th March 15:31
ingenieur said:
I've defended myself successfully in a speeding case before.
Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
This Isn’t really about just speeding now though. All of that may have been useful at an earlier juncture but it’s all moved forward now and Mother has received an SJPN for both offences, the speeding offence has no real legs and is likely to be dropped because they have no information as to who was driving, so that leaves the falling to furnish for the Mother to deal with and that leaves her in a quandary, what she mustn’t do is to now identify the driver or they will have a slam dunk guilty for both charges. As advised earlier a conversation or meeting with a proper specialist lawyer would be money well spent Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
Edited by ingenieur on Monday 20th March 15:31
martinbiz said:
ingenieur said:
I've defended myself successfully in a speeding case before.
Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
This Isn’t really about just speeding now though. All of that may have been useful at an earlier juncture but it’s all moved forward now and Mother has received an SJPN for both offences, the speeding offence has no real legs and is likely to be dropped because they have no information as to who was driving, so that leaves the falling to furnish for the Mother to deal with and that leaves her in a quandary, what she mustn’t do is to now identify the driver or they will have a slam dunk guilty for both charges. As advised earlier a conversation or meeting with a proper specialist lawyer would be money well spent Point 3 of the advice from the professional on the previous page means: phone up or write to the person the police are using to prosecute you. There is this geezer who works for the police called a prosecutor. He is the guy who makes the case for the police and presents it in court.
He wants the details of all this to be correct as much as you do. He will be happy to deal with this and fix all the cockups if you have an honest discussion with him on the phone or else write to him explaining the problem. As long as there's no sense in all of this that you're trying to get away with anything then there shouldn't be any problem getting it all sorted.
The fact that these notices arrive in the post with time limits attached to them is just to keep the process moving efficiently and to stop people mucking about. If something has gone wrong it does not mean that time limits will prevent the issues from being resolved and the case being handled properly.
Even if you go to court you will still have a chance to explain the situation on the day in front of the magistrates... that does however involve giving a live performance and if you're not the sort of person who is used to doing that kind of thing then it won't be fun. You'll have to hire a representative if you don't want to do it yourself. The prosecutor will be there so you can even explain the situation to him if you ask to meet him before going into the court room. The hearing can be cancelled and rescheduled if necessary.
Just imagine that the people involved are all real and reasonable and that the problems can be worked out. Best is to make contact with the prosecutor at the earliest opportunity as that provides the most time for fixing the problems.
It sounds as though the whole thing as it stands is all wrong and you have to get back to the juncture where the correct driver is identified and then work on from there.
Edited by ingenieur on Monday 20th March 15:31
ingenieur said:
I'm not going to get into a back-n-forth over this but the advice from the specialist on the previous page is correct. Contact the prosecutor and sort it out. They've no vengeful interest in prosecuting the wrong person for the wrong thing. They'd much rather prosecute the right person for the right thing. The issue of failing to respond is understandable considering the circumstances and it can be dropped. I don't think there's anything complicated about this, it can be resolved with a civilised conversation. The only thing which would mess it up is if you're impolite and give the impression that you're trying to use the opportunity to absolve yourselves of any wrongdoing. That'll get his goat and he doesn't have to help.
I think your missing my point, I agree, as I advised in my post talk to a specialist, that goes without saying, My point was the OP is not trying to get a case dropped, after ignoring a warning letter they have received an SJPN ( a summons in old money ) so that ship has sailed, so it needs to be tackled in the correct manner. To say it is simple and easy is simply not true in this case due to the circumstances. Had the RK also been the driver and charged with both offences it would have been much easier to deal with
ingenieur said:
martinbiz said:
To say it is simple and easy is simply not true in this case due to the circumstances.
What is the complicated bit? martinbiz said:
cashmax said:
I seem to recall that in the past, if they decided to prosecute under S172 for failing to provide, they would drop the speeding offence. I thought this was the point of making S172 endorsable.
Usually but as in this case not always cashmax said:
martinbiz said:
cashmax said:
I seem to recall that in the past, if they decided to prosecute under S172 for failing to provide, they would drop the speeding offence. I thought this was the point of making S172 endorsable.
Usually but as in this case not always martinbiz said:
what she mustn’t do is to now identify the driver or they will have a slam dunk guilty for both charges.
Not really.There is a defence to failure to furnish if it was not reasonably practical to provide the info within 28 days, so long as you provided it as soon as it was reasonably practical.
The OP's mum's case will be that she thought the information had been provided, and due to the amount of time it took the reply to be returned for insufficient postage, it wasn't possible for her to know sooner that it hadn't been received, and therefore it wasn't reasonably practical for her to send it again. This doesn't seem like a bombproof argument for various reasons, but it's not an obviously absurd one either, especially if the reminder came very soon after the original reply was sent.
However now that she does know that it wasn't received, she does need to be able to say that she provided the information as soon as reasonably practical for the defence to have any chance. I assume this is why AGTLaw (who more about these things than you or me) recommends sending another reply asap.
It won't lead to convictions for both charges - the mum can't be convicted of speeding if it wasn't her driving and the son can't be convicted if it's more than 6 months singe the offence and he still hasn't been charged.
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