Cowardly Will Question

Author
Discussion

TownIdiot

1,859 posts

7 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
C4ME said:
Is it not the case that once Probate is granted the will becomes a public document? It will be obvious then what his intentions were and no 'blaming the law'. They will know he knew they would be excluded.

That then potentially sets the sister's family up for a big fall out between her, her husband, and the kids / step kids.

As nobody knows where the money is going until the will is executed, anything beforehand is speculation. He can say what he wants to the sisters now, whether that reflects the will or not.

In summary, he does not have to tell the truth before he dies but there is no hiding from it once he does.
It's an interesting one.

I think alot of people would think it's totally normal to treat step-grandkids differently to grandkids.
I'd have thought it was more controversial to skip the actual children out, unless they were already wealthy.

Could a step grandchild reasonably expect equal treatment?
I'd say in most circumstances not

i4got

5,743 posts

86 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Steve H said:
Is there any reason why the will can’t just allocate 25% of the estate each to two of the kids by name and 16.6% each to three others?
He could do, but that's including the step kids. he doesn't want to include or exclude them. He wants that to be Mrs C's problem. If, as said above, just saying children excludes step children, he'll be fine with that. No one (apart from me) will know he knew they would be excluded.

After his death, he doesn't want Mrs C to think he excluded them. And he doesn't want Mrs B to think he included them to the financial detriment of his biological family. As I said in the title, cowardly.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Wednesday 27th November 20:43
Sounds like 2 potential outcomes.

1) Make an unambiguous will that might cause someone to think badly of you after you're dead.

or

2) Leave an ambiguous will that may cause a rift in the family after you've gone.

Seems an obvious choice.?




Sheepshanks

35,119 posts

127 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
bompey said:
You can be as specific or ambiguous as you want.
Would a solicitor knowingly allow ambiguity? I don't know, but don't they have a duty to make sure Wills aren't ambiguous?

I suppose he could simply not tell the solicitor about the stepkids. Or knock up a Will himself, but that's asking for trouble. Which seems to be what he wants!

BlackTails

854 posts

63 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
No they won't. They'll just wish he'd been more specific. But they won't know he deliberately skirted the issue.
Ok. If that’s what you think, you go with that.

C4ME

1,486 posts

219 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How will they know? The will will say he leaves 50% to Mrs C's children. How will anyone know he knew that included or didn't include stepkids?
If it makes him feel better thinking that then all good. If he does not want the step kids to get anything he really should just say so in the will. It is not unusual to only leave to your biological family when second marriages are involved. They will likely all respect him more for being clear.


Edited by C4ME on Wednesday 27th November 22:57

LimmerickLad

2,264 posts

23 months

Wednesday 27th November
quotequote all
C4ME said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How will they know? The will will say he leaves 50% to Mrs C's children. How will anyone know he knew that included or didn't include stepkids?
If it makes him feel better thinking that then all good. If he does not want the step kids to get anything he really should just say so in the will. It is not unusual to only leave to your biological kids and they would probably all respect him more for being clear.
The stepkids couldn't challenge the will but their stepmother (Mrs C) IIRC might be legally able to make a Larke & Nugus request if it's drawn up by a solicitor and then she will see all the solicitor's records of his instructions and what was and wasn't said at the meeting when the will was drafted.

eta as someone above said...the only winners will be solicitors if it goes wrong.........something I know only too well!

Edited by LimmerickLad on Wednesday 27th November 23:00

AndyAudi

3,270 posts

230 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
TownIdiot said:
I think alot of people would think it's totally normal to treat step-grandkids differently to grandkids..

Could a step grandchild reasonably expect equal treatment?
I'd say in most circumstances not
It really does depend on the circumstances, in my family I know one step child is treated same as Biological by their grandparents.

An interesting one to throw into the mix - does adopting a partners kid (which does happen) make then your own child in the eyes of the law?

If A left to c’s children & c had adopted them
(More common with widow/widowers where they have to think about where a child will live in the event of their death if there’s not another parent)

C69

593 posts

20 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
AndyAudi said:
It really does depend on the circumstances, in my family I know one step child is treated same as Biological by their grandparents.

An interesting one to throw into the mix - does adopting a partners kid (which does happen) make then your own child in the eyes of the law?

If A left to c’s children & c had adopted them
(More common with widow/widowers where they have to think about where a child will live in the event of their death if there’s not another parent)
I believe that it does. If they're formally adopted, then they're treated the same as biological children for inheritance purposes (including intestacy).

Bill

54,367 posts

263 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
i4got said:
Sounds like 2 potential outcomes.

1) Make an unambiguous will that might cause someone to think badly of you after you're dead.

or

2) Leave an ambiguous will that may cause a rift in the family after you've gone.

Seems an obvious choice.?
yes

One way round would be to leave £10k to each stepchild so they're not left out and divide the rest amongst the other children.

Steve H

5,814 posts

203 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
RUI488 said:
What kind of man doesn’t have the minerals to just be explicit about what he wants and take whatever the fall out of that is?
Minimal fallout for him in this case, unless done via a seance.


Han Solo

214 posts

33 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
TownIdiot said:
C4ME said:
Is it not the case that once Probate is granted the will becomes a public document? It will be obvious then what his intentions were and no 'blaming the law'. They will know he knew they would be excluded.

That then potentially sets the sister's family up for a big fall out between her, her husband, and the kids / step kids.

As nobody knows where the money is going until the will is executed, anything beforehand is speculation. He can say what he wants to the sisters now, whether that reflects the will or not.

In summary, he does not have to tell the truth before he dies but there is no hiding from it once he does.
It's an interesting one.

I think alot of people would think it's totally normal to treat step-grandkids differently to grandkids.
I'd have thought it was more controversial to skip the actual children out, unless they were already wealthy.

Could a step grandchild reasonably expect equal treatment?
I'd say in most circumstances not
My wife, as a step child rather than step grandchild, is the only beneficiary of her late mother’s / step-father’s will, the biological children have been removed.

Mr A is indeed a coward. Why not just do 20x4 10x2, everyone’s included, everyone gets a share, I don’t think step-GC would moan at that, I certainly wouldn’t, I’m expecting 0%!

TwigtheWonderkid

Original Poster:

44,766 posts

158 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
C4ME said:
If it makes him feel better thinking that then all good. If he does not want the step kids to get anything he really should just say so in the will.
He doesn't care if stepkids are included or not. He just doesn't want to make that decision.

TwigtheWonderkid

Original Poster:

44,766 posts

158 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
RUI488 said:
What kind of man doesn’t have the minerals to just be explicit about what he wants and take whatever the fall out of that is?
If you haven't worked out the answer yet, there's a clue in the thread title.

TwigtheWonderkid

Original Poster:

44,766 posts

158 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
Han Solo said:
Mr A is indeed a coward. Why not just do 20x4 10x2, everyone’s included, everyone gets a share,
There's 5 bio kids, and 2 stepkids. How does leaving money to 6 kids work?

W124Bob

1,774 posts

183 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
Surely the easiest way to do this would be to leave the step children a specific nominal amount(or token items) and then divvy up the rest as a percentage to the remaining biological children.

LimmerickLad

2,264 posts

23 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
W124Bob said:
Surely the easiest way to do this would be to leave the step children a specific nominal amount(or token items) and then divvy up the rest as a percentage to the remaining biological children.
This^^^^^^

With a caveat that if anyone challenges the will they automatically lose their share.

alscar

5,463 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
I may have missed it but does Mr A want to also leave anything to his wife ?
Irrespective , his will is his affair and he should draw it up according to whatever he wants -Personally I would get this done by a professional and name the people he wants to leave to.
He can do this by percentage or "shares ".
Should then any of the beneficiaries named then want to do something different with their legacies they can as suggested already and simply do a Deed of Variation and they have 2 years from the date of his death in which to do so.

C4ME

1,486 posts

219 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
C4ME said:
If it makes him feel better thinking that then all good. If he does not want the step kids to get anything he really should just say so in the will.
He doesn't care if stepkids are included or not. He just doesn't want to make that decision.
The wording in the will determines who gets what. There is no getting away from that and he is responsible for the wording. The law does not take sides nor make arbitrary choices, so he cannot pass it on to the law to decide.

The executers don't change the will, only execute the will. They also do not make choices. A beneficiary can decide to reallocate their portion but it is at their sole discretion.

One way he removes the decision from himself is to make his sister the beneficiary, along with a desire she reallocates her portion between the children as she wishes. She can of course ignore his request and keep the money herself.

Edited by C4ME on Thursday 28th November 09:43

BlackTails

854 posts

63 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
LimmerickLad said:
W124Bob said:
Surely the easiest way to do this would be to leave the step children a specific nominal amount(or token items) and then divvy up the rest as a percentage to the remaining biological children.
This^^^^^^

With a caveat that if anyone challenges the will they automatically lose their share.
The way to do this that reflects the cowardice would be to put the whole estate into a discretionary trust. Make the bio and step kids discretionary beneficiaries, and make Mrs B and C the trustees.

That foists the decision that the testator doesn’t care about/can’t bring himself to make onto someone else (Mrs B & Mrs C), and guarantees every child something between zero and everything.

It would also share the discontent evenly across Mrs B, Mrs C and all of the children.

omniflow

2,897 posts

159 months

Thursday 28th November
quotequote all
Surely a decent specialist (probably a lawyer) of some kind could come up with some appropriate wording.

Also - what happens if the side of the family with stepkids undergoes changes between now and cowards passing? The sister may split from the father of the stepkids and remarry with no stepkids, or different stepkids. The other sister could also divorce and remarry.

A friend of mine had some issues recently. His Mum and Dad split about 30 years ago. His Dad re-married and died about 15 years ago. My friend was estranged from his Dad, didn't attend the funeral and had no idea about his will. He also had no interest. Recently, his Dad's 2nd Wife died, and it turned out that his Dad's will had stipulated that money went to all of his Grandchildren. My friend has 2 kids, his Sister has no kids. This resulted in my friend's side of the family getting "everything" and his Sister's side of the family getting nothing. This caused a huge upset and put great strain on the relationship between my friend's kids and their Auntie, and also their Grandma.

Whilst I fully understand his wish that 50% of his estate goes to the dependents of each Sister, and that he wants to make it the Sister's problem who gets what, there MUST be some wording or mechanism to make that happen and specialist advice is the way to go.