RE: UK Speeders In France Could Soon Get Points

[Pingman]

I must admit I thought that it was already the case that if you were caught speeding in France you got points on your UK licence!

I do find it hard to beleive that 550,000 British motorists have been speeding in France each year. That must be every single person that has driven in France over a year!

What also worries me is the variation in tolerances to offences. Typically in the UK you'll not get a tug for 75 in a national speed limit, but in France if you're doing just over the limit you'll get nicked as they aren't as tolerant/ want an easy few quid

Could mean very easily picking up points for very minor and accidental infractions of the speed limits for alot of British motorists

[SS2.]

Dwight VanDriver said:

As with parking now in UK are they looking at holding the Reg Keeper responsible for any fine leaving him to try and weigh off on the real driver and offender. If so no need for EECF172 ?

Maybe. But then Q5 does state 'if he was not driving at the time when the offence was committed, to provide the relevant data for identifying the driver'..

And we know that Europe considers s.172 to be a proportional response when dealing with alleged motoring offences, speeding in particular.

[SS2.]

Pingman said:

Could mean very easily picking up points for very minor and accidental infractions of the speed limits for alot of British motorists

Unlikely, because the EC are not considering that cross border offences should attract penalty points - see Q3.

[ChrisRB]

Call me cynical, but, i suspect this all because of lost revenues. Well over a million fines is a lot of money.

[NobleGuy]

Change the plate while on the ferry/chunnel to some Polish or Lithuanian version and see if they can find you from the photo.....

[Finlandia]

Speedcameras in Sweden are forward facing, and the photo taken needs to clearly identify the driver. The numberplate is only used to check who is the owner and possibly the driver.
If you do not have a Swedish licence with a photo of you and a Swedish numberplate on the car, there is no way you will ever get done by a speedcamera.

[SS2.]

Finlandia said:

If you do not have a Swedish licence with a photo of you and a Swedish numberplate on the car, there is no way you will ever get done by a speedcamera.

Unless the Swedish authorities are given access to the DVLA database (in the case of UK offending vehicles) as part of the initiative.

[djohnson]

What would happen then if I received a NIP from France, declined the option of a fixed penalty and went for a court appearance? Presumably they would require me to attend court in France or the French authorities to provide evidence (including if applicable witnesses) to the UK courts?

Is the kit the French plod uses 'type approved' for use in the UK?

[10 Pence Short]

djohnson said:

What would happen then if I received a NIP from France, declined the option of a fixed penalty and went for a court appearance? Presumably they would require me to attend court in France or the French authorities to provide evidence (including if applicable witnesses) to the UK courts?

Is the kit the French plod uses 'type approved' for use in the UK?

I would imagine a note would be logged against your passport and next time it was checked in France your trip would be more expensive than you thought it would be.

The kit doesn't have to be UK type approved for the French to prosecute UK drivers.

[Finlandia]

SS2. said:

Finlandia said:

If you do not have a Swedish licence with a photo of you and a Swedish numberplate on the car, there is no way you will ever get done by a speedcamera.

Unless the Swedish authorities are given access to the DVLA database (in the case of UK offending vehicles) as part of the initiative.

True, but then again, since the start of using speedcameras in Sweden, there have been some quite high profile speeders caught on camera here, Nixon, Reagan, Gorbatjov, Donald Duck, King Kong, etc.

It's easy to avoid having your photo taken, use ray-bans for one, or as above, a face mask, or even tilting the sunvisor down will save you from the mugshot.

As for being granted the DVLA records, they still must find and identify the driver from the photo, which will be rather tricky with a foreign registered car and driver, not impossible, but very time consuming and expensive.

[C8PPO]

barney123 said:

Burnham said:

...I wondered what that flashing was....

I saw that sign in menorca this year - wondered what it meant.

I imagine all the Spanish did as well, unless they speak French.

[neh321]

supermono said:

Do they have the powers to demand who was driving your car at a particular time whilst abroad?

SM

No they don't. But do they care? They'll clobber YOU anyway!

[djohnson]

10 Pence Short said:

djohnson said:

What would happen then if I received a NIP from France, declined the option of a fixed penalty and went for a court appearance? Presumably they would require me to attend court in France or the French authorities to provide evidence (including if applicable witnesses) to the UK courts?

Is the kit the French plod uses 'type approved' for use in the UK?

I would imagine a note would be logged against your passport and next time it was checked in France your trip would be more expensive than you thought it would be.

The kit doesn't have to be UK type approved for the French to prosecute UK drivers.

So if I were to dispute it then it would be in a French court? The UK would simply enpower the French courts to endorse my UK driving lic rather than requiring that the French prove their case in a UK court?

[10 Pence Short]

If you wanted to dispute it, it would have to be through the French courts.

[SS2.]

Finlandia said:

As for being granted the DVLA records, they still must find and identify the driver from the photo, which will be rather tricky with a foreign registered car and driver, not impossible, but very time consuming and expensive.

But if the initiative reverts to a more 'UK' approach, then the purpose of the photograph would be to identify the vehicle, not the driver.

And once the vehicle had been identified, the authorities could either request (under threat of further sanction) that the RK provide the details of whomsoever was driving at the time or, as is the case for parking contraventions in the UK, the RK is 'fined' irrespective whether or not he was in control of the vehicle at the time.

[Z8cookie]

But if they do…… you get a nice certificate. But you do have to supply your own frame.

[Finlandia]

SS2. said:

Finlandia said:

As for being granted the DVLA records, they still must find and identify the driver from the photo, which will be rather tricky with a foreign registered car and driver, not impossible, but very time consuming and expensive.

But if the initiative reverts to a more 'UK' approach, then the purpose of the photograph would be to identify the vehicle, not the driver.

And once the vehicle had been identified, the authorities could either request (under threat of further sanction) that the RK provide the details of whomsoever was driving at the time or, as is the case for parking contraventions in the UK, the RK is 'fined' irrespective whether or not he was in control of the vehicle at the time.

But since the offence was committed in Sweden, it has to be the Swedish rules that apply, surely?

If a UK driver was flashed in Sweden in a Swedish registered car, nothing would happen, since there are no photos of said driver on record in Sweden.
The authorities in Sweden have no powers to force the RK to identify the driver of the time. If it was a UK car, they would only have the RK, from the DVLA records, but not the positive identification of the driver, which is a requirement according to Swedish law.

Funnily enough, this doesn't apply to parking violations, where it is the RK that is responsible for the parking violation and the following fines.

[Nostrils]

All's fair in love and war - If they want to give the British points, then we can give the French points too and we should also be rude and arrogant, as the other saying goes "treat people how you like to be treated, vice versa"

[SS2.]

Finlandia said:

But since the offence was committed in Sweden, it has to be the Swedish rules that apply, surely?

Who knows how a cross border initiative is going to work in countries with markedly different legislative requirements.

It makes sense that when in the UK,UK laws should apply and when in Sweden, Swedish laws should apply. But it does make me wonder whether the EC would be looking for some form of tighter harmonisation throughout its member states, if this initiative was ever to go beyond the consultation / wish-list process.

[Finlandia]

SS2. said:

Finlandia said:

But since the offence was committed in Sweden, it has to be the Swedish rules that apply, surely?

Who knows how a cross border initiative is going to work in countries with markedly different legislative requirements.

It makes sense that when in the UK,UK laws should apply and when in Sweden, Swedish laws should apply. But it does make me wonder whether the EC would be looking for some form of tighter harmonisation throughout its member states, if this initiative was ever to go beyond the consultation / wish-list process.

And that is the biggest problem of a EU/EC covering law, the completely different wievs on just about everything.