DVLA lost list
Discussion
We just recived a letter today stating that the jeep is not taxed and issuing a £25 fine . The jeep was taxed 3 monthes ago. After a phone call their explanation was they often lose the lists of what was taxed received from the post offices. How will the police then catch the none tax payers (which need to be caught) without good information. And how much of a waste of time and resources for the public and the DVLA is it to lose the lists of which car is taxed?
This is par for the course with the creaky and incompetent DVLA.
The result is you can get away with a great deal with them and reject the bluff and bluster demands for fines etc because they cannot be sure it is not themselves in the wrong. They like other public bodies rely on the vast majority of people simply grumbling and paying up.
The result is you can get away with a great deal with them and reject the bluff and bluster demands for fines etc because they cannot be sure it is not themselves in the wrong. They like other public bodies rely on the vast majority of people simply grumbling and paying up.
Saw a demonstration of the ANPR system being extensively used with the Police. You know what the stupid thing though - they have the operator that sits at the terminal and keeps pressing the Enter button to cancel the alarms.... on a single stretch of busy A road they managed to get something like 150 cars in an hour that were flagged as "caution". The daft thing is that the vast majority are perfectly legal, but the DVLA just havent updated the system. It can take upto 3 months for some registrations and re-taxes to come through the "system"..... kinda makes the technology redundant....
Well done DVLA - we have the ability to monitor the roads and catch the untaxed, uninsured disqualified drivers and YOUR system cant support it.... NICE....
On a lighter note though, there is a major move to update the whole system electronically. This means that the Post Office will have to process Car Tax within a day using the system. This will keep things updated pronto - but there needs to be a change in the Taxation system to support this - or we will have to pay for 11 months worth of tax (backdated remember) to ensure that we are 100% legal.
Also, anyone heard of the centralised system for MOT's? Again, they will retain a central database of all cars that have an MOT and when it expired.... fraught with problems at the moment, but a step in the right direction - trials have started....
So, using ANPR they will be able to check if you have paid your Tax, if the MOT is valid and who the registered driver is (potentially if they are insured)..... could be interesting.....
Well done DVLA - we have the ability to monitor the roads and catch the untaxed, uninsured disqualified drivers and YOUR system cant support it.... NICE....
On a lighter note though, there is a major move to update the whole system electronically. This means that the Post Office will have to process Car Tax within a day using the system. This will keep things updated pronto - but there needs to be a change in the Taxation system to support this - or we will have to pay for 11 months worth of tax (backdated remember) to ensure that we are 100% legal.
Also, anyone heard of the centralised system for MOT's? Again, they will retain a central database of all cars that have an MOT and when it expired.... fraught with problems at the moment, but a step in the right direction - trials have started....
So, using ANPR they will be able to check if you have paid your Tax, if the MOT is valid and who the registered driver is (potentially if they are insured)..... could be interesting.....
pbrettle said:How many times does the operator have to push 'Enter' before they are rewarded with a doughnut? And what about the claims for RSI? - Streaky
Saw a demonstration of the ANPR system being extensively used with the Police. You know what the stupid thing though - they have the operator that sits at the terminal and keeps pressing the Enter button to cancel the alarms.... on a single stretch of busy A road they managed to get something like 150 cars in an hour that were flagged as "caution". The daft thing is that the vast majority are perfectly legal, but the DVLA just havent updated the system. It can take upto 3 months for some registrations and re-taxes to come through the "system"..... kinda makes the technology redundant.
...
streaky said:
Well, if most government computer projects are anything to go by, these will (a) be extremely late in delivery, (b) be horrenously over budget, (c) demand more of our time and information, and (d) never work properly anyway - Streaky
Dont go there - a certain large systems integrator is working on this as we speak and its a collosal monster of a system and its VASTLY over budget.....
Actually in this case its not the Government project managers who are to blame but the systems integrator. They are BLEEDING both the end user (the MOT station) and the relevant government dept (cant remember who is responsible these days)...... how about £2,500 for a PC terminal? Its a 2Ghz PC with a keyboard and mouse..... they claim the difference is for support - well you can get support from PCWorld for £100 so it isnt quite right....
Oh, and you would have thought that the PC's in the MOT testing stations would be ruggedised wouldnt you? You know mechanics and oil....but no - they are Boggo PC's.... ruggedising them would have put the bill at £4000 per terminal....NICE....
streaky said:
How many times does the operator have to push 'Enter' before they are rewarded with a doughnut? And what about the claims for RSI? - Streaky
Actually the system isnt is widespread use yet. Simply due to the problems with the registration management. The stupid thing is that statistically a TrafPol with decent experience and a PNC terminal has a greater hit ratio than ANPR..... still, this will change once they improve it....
P.S. Donuts are after 100 condition Orange's or 1 condition Red.
pbrettle said:
Well, if most government computer projects are anything to go by, these will (a) be extremely late in delivery, (b) be horrenously over budget, (c) demand more of our time and information, and (d) never work properly anyway - Streaky
Dont go there - a certain large systems integrator is working on this as we speak and its a collosal monster of a system and its VASTLY over budget.....
Actually in this case its not the Government project managers who are to blame but the systems integrator. They are BLEEDING both the end user (the MOT station) and the relevant government dept (cant remember who is responsible these days)...... how about £2,500 for a PC terminal? Its a 2Ghz PC with a keyboard and mouse..... they claim the difference is for support - well you can get support from PCWorld for £100 so it isnt quite right....
Oh, and you would have thought that the PC's in the MOT testing stations would be ruggedised wouldnt you? You know mechanics and oil....but no - they are Boggo PC's.... ruggedising them would have put the bill at £4000 per terminal....NICE....
<FISHING>Has that particular SI changed their name in the last year or two due to a merger?</FISHING>
There is only one way that we will see significant reform of public services and that is when the goverhment realise that PFI partnerhips with the likes of EDS/Ernst and Young/Cap-gemini simply do not deliver.
It has to be done inhouse so that there isn't scope creep and that issues/problems that occur along the way can be looked at rationally and a solution developed that doesn't jeopardise the overall aims of the project.
The 3rd parties are simply in it to make money. Period.
I just cannot believe that any organisation can introduce systems like that being used by the CSA, Passport Office, Working Families Tax Credit, etc.. without proper testing.
For the last 16 years I've operated, designed, built and supported mission critical complex IT systems. It isn't rocket science, it does take effoft but with the right team it can be done on time and within budget.
It has to be done inhouse so that there isn't scope creep and that issues/problems that occur along the way can be looked at rationally and a solution developed that doesn't jeopardise the overall aims of the project.
The 3rd parties are simply in it to make money. Period.
I just cannot believe that any organisation can introduce systems like that being used by the CSA, Passport Office, Working Families Tax Credit, etc.. without proper testing.
For the last 16 years I've operated, designed, built and supported mission critical complex IT systems. It isn't rocket science, it does take effoft but with the right team it can be done on time and within budget.
rospa said:
There is only one way that we will see significant reform of public services and that is when the goverhment realise that PFI partnerhips with the likes of EDS/Ernst and Young/Cap-gemini simply do not deliver.
It has to be done inhouse so that there isn't scope creep and that issues/problems that occur along the way can be looked at rationally and a solution developed that doesn't jeopardise the overall aims of the project.
The 3rd parties are simply in it to make money. Period.
I just cannot believe that any organisation can introduce systems like that being used by the CSA, Passport Office, Working Families Tax Credit, etc.. without proper testing.
For the last 16 years I've operated, designed, built and supported mission critical complex IT systems. It isn't rocket science, it does take effoft but with the right team it can be done on time and within budget.
Have to disagree on this one. I used to be on the AFRL user group which was a liaison group between DVLA, manufacturers, SMMT, IMI, and a whole load of others.
The meetings are quite amusing to attend. Very reminiscent of a Welsh Rugby Club Committee meeting.
The specifications for the systems I worked with are exhaustive and possibly not a great system design. To manage all the changes and testing is a hell of a task and worked quite well. The guys at EDS did a great job and where very knowledgable. We sorted problems a lot quicker when we spoke direct to them.
When the Ministry of Transport make a change to the process it is usually the manufacturers who have to pick up the bill. And often at short notice, such as if the Chancellor decides to rape us harder straight away.
liszt said:
There is only one way that we will see significant reform of public services and that is when the goverhment realise that PFI partnerhips with the likes of EDS/Ernst and Young/Cap-gemini simply do not deliver.
It has to be done inhouse so that there isn't scope creep and that issues/problems that occur along the way can be looked at rationally and a solution developed that doesn't jeopardise the overall aims of the project.
The 3rd parties are simply in it to make money. Period.
I just cannot believe that any organisation can introduce systems like that being used by the CSA, Passport Office, Working Families Tax Credit, etc.. without proper testing.
For the last 16 years I've operated, designed, built and supported mission critical complex IT systems. It isn't rocket science, it does take effoft but with the right team it can be done on time and within budget.
Have to disagree on this one. I used to be on the AFRL user group which was a liaison group between DVLA, manufacturers, SMMT, IMI, and a whole load of others.
The meetings are quite amusing to attend. Very reminiscent of a Welsh Rugby Club Committee meeting.
The specifications for the systems I worked with are exhaustive and possibly not a great system design. To manage all the changes and testing is a hell of a task and worked quite well. The guys at EDS did a great job and where very knowledgable. We sorted problems a lot quicker when we spoke direct to them.
When the Ministry of Transport make a change to the process it is usually the manufacturers who have to pick up the bill. And often at short notice, such as if the Chancellor decides to rape us harder straight away.
Shock horror EDS actually performing the role they are paid to do!
Sorry. I've seen too many botched implementations to realise that you need top quality people running the show from the very top.
Well DVLA better have the electronic system sorted by now because as you were all notified by PetrolTed new legislation from 30.11.03 means that automatic fines will be sent out for those failing to retax vehicles or declare SORN within 1 month of the previous tax expiry date.
First you'll know about it will be a FPN of £80 bouncing through the letter box, reduced to £40 if you pay within 28 days.
Its only a few days now before the first £80 New Year presents start arriving............
Certainly from my experience tax data is being zapped electronically from the post office to Swansea, but what happens when it gets there is quite another thing.
In theory its meant to catch the folks who don't tax for a month and then retax. ie 13 months use for the price of 12.
Personally I'm waiting to see the chaos resulting from issues such as that which started this thread.
First you'll know about it will be a FPN of £80 bouncing through the letter box, reduced to £40 if you pay within 28 days.
Its only a few days now before the first £80 New Year presents start arriving............
Certainly from my experience tax data is being zapped electronically from the post office to Swansea, but what happens when it gets there is quite another thing.
In theory its meant to catch the folks who don't tax for a month and then retax. ie 13 months use for the price of 12.
Personally I'm waiting to see the chaos resulting from issues such as that which started this thread.
pbrettle said:
well you can get support from PCWorld for £100 so it isnt quite right....
there is no way ever i would let a pc world monkey near any of my computers, even if it was free.
but i would happliy pay a big sum to a corporate to support an extensive software system that has taken many hours to design, develop, test and implement.
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